l. patrick ray on july 6th, 1972, as evidence that he wanted the investigation to go ahead, i guess it's the conversation where he said gray warns him that there are people in the white house that are trying to set the cia against the fbi. what was it that led you to see this particular conversation as not dispositive, as not evidence of the president's interest in the investigation going forward? >> well, we knew -- i don't recall whether it was that discussion with gray or a later one, but we did know in connection with one instance where the president had called up the director of the fbi and told him to press forward with all vigor, that the president had a lot of information that we knew he knew that would have helped the director of the fbi, fbi press forward with all vigor, and he did not convey that information. so, that raised the question of whether these were words that he just wanted to be able to quote because if he really wanted the investigation to go forward, he could have provided information that would be very helpful. >> do you remember when you listened to the tapes t