la la land with this president, but a normal president would say i'm not pardoning anyone because i believe in their innocence or i've done nothing wrong. american people are going to think that if donald trump is pardoning roger stone, it's because he is protecting himself, which is the likely result of a pardon. so i think the whole idea that we're talking about burying the mueller report or pardoning roger stone is an indication of how close this investigation is to finding guilt of donald trump. >> and joyce, what's interesting is nobody is hiding the fact that roger stone has been the key adviser. the debate is over advised on what. and everyone who knows trump has understood that public advice is sometimes heeded the most via what we're doing now, via television. here was roger stone talking about how trump's lawyers weren't initially serving him well in all this, advice that he did seem to follow as he made a big change and went into the rudy era. take a look at this from a previous showtime interview. >> his previous lawyers were lawyers. i'm not sure they understood the political ramifications and the political nature of this case. i mean, the idea of waiving executive privilege and just turning everything over, relying on the good instincts and fairness of bob mueller i think was a naive strategy. >> they should have burned the tapes? >> well, they should have, actually. >> joyce, other than the obvious tape of mr. stone suggesting destroying evidence, he is now indicted on tampering with witnesses' testimonial evidence. what do you think of that exchange and the really unique relationship between these two men. this is not a coffee boy. this is not a rhando. >> this is a relationship that has gone on for 40 years. it's obviously very deep. you don't attend someone's parents' funeral unless you're close. so it gives me that same reaction i think that neera has to this notion that trump hasn't considered a pardon, and i would take it even a step further and say when your response, when you're asked whether you would give them a pardon and your answer is well, no, i think his defense is doing pretty well on its own. and when ultimately that person's crimes involve you, this is just a remarkable thing, and we've become so numb to what this president does over and over again that that's almost passed without comment. we shouldn't let it pass without comment. >> right. and it also goes to the unique situation of even with a more traditional president what happens when you have these open probes. you did have a president bush sort of go in a more traditional manner towards what was independent or special counsel probe into the leak of a cia officer in that case. you wonder how does the chief of staff deal with such a tricky situation. stay with me. it's a good prelude to bringing in andrew card. you know a lot about this at a high level. what do you think, sir, of the way the president is talking about this, the way that mr. stone is going out in public, i think the most measured way i can say it is it is a bit different than the way the bush white house dealt with its open probe. >> i can't imagine doing what is taking place right now between all of the conversation that comes from the president, what roger stone -- my advice is to let the special counsel do the job that he thinks needs to be done. keep your mouth shut, stay on task, and if you're a target, you're a target. if you're not, you stay on task and do your job. i don't think the president should be talking about it. i don't think roger stone should be talking as much about it. and that would be the advice i was given. be giving to anybody. >> building on that, sir, i want to for our viewers recollect, these probes happen, and they don't always mean anything bad is found out about the president. the starr probe is widely debated, what people think about that with clinton impeachment. the fitzgerald probe, you had bush it is down with that off camera interview. there was never any credible allegation against george w. bush of anything in the criminal liability regarding that issue and they finished the probe. and the mueller probe you have written answers from trump and it's still open. i wonder what lesson you draw from that. because we just showed roger stone publicly telling donald trump to be tougher, to be louder. rudy is clearly taking that tact. but you guys got through it without using that kind of public brawl. >> well, first of all, nobody likes a special counsel or a special prosecutor looking at things. that's discomforting. my job as chief of staff was to keep the white house functioning to help the president do his job, we did did quite well, and i give credit to the people who worked at the white house who saw their responsibility as helping the president do his job. the other thing is if you're confident in what you have been doing and that you've been complying with the rules, regulation, laws and expectations, you have nothing to worry about. so, yes, the president sent the signal that we should cooperate with the special counsel or the special investigator that was doing his work, and we think we did, and as a result, there were results. those results ended up being overturned in the court, and then there were different things that happened along the way. and eventually, a pardon came to one of the individuals involved. he never got charged with doing anything that related to the original expectation. it was about maybe perjuring his health with one of the other witnesses came forward and said he didn't do it. >> scooter libby who did work for cheney who got commuted by george w. bush after the process had run its course. and then in one of the wildest things i don't think mr. carter or mr. libby would have expected, later got a full pardon from none other than donald trump. >> that's exactly right. >> i think this is the demonstration, right. obviously, what's happening here is that people are sending each other messages via the press. i think roger stone is telling the president that i'm not going to cooperate. and so then the president is saying well, i'm opening up to a pardon, which gives roger stone more incentive not to cooperate. and we'll keep saying that. so i think, you know, the reason why donald trump and the people involved in this negotiation -- in this whole case are acting to me, at least to me as people who never have acted this way before, bill clinton, i worked in the clinton white house. people really separated out the investigation. obviously in the bush white houses, they're litigating this to some extent in the press. they can't talk to each other. roger stone can't pick up the phone and talk to donald trump now because that would obviously trigger issues, but he's basically sending messages. and i think, unfortunately, they're all acting culpable by chaining their behavior, by basically saying i'm not -- maybe you should think about that pardon for me because i'm not cooperating. >> you make such a great point. and joyce, bringing you into this, as a prosecutor, full disclosure. the part of me that is a journalist, we welcome all new information we get. it's fascinating when witnesses want to talk during a probe. so i get that. but speak to the point that neera raises, which is separate from the journalistic inquiry or obviously a lot of citizens following this, the legal part of this, which is mueller's folks looking at all of this signal sending, and they're not naive about what's going on. >> two different categories of people here from a prosecutor's point of view. i do not want my witnesses out in public talking, creating more statements that they can be cross-examined about. my targets, my subjects? i'm happy to see them make public pronouncements. every time the president gets on twitter, roger stone goes on tv, they're just giving mueller more cannon fodder for what's coming. >> mr. carter, do you think it would be a good idea for bill barr to kind of clear this all up and say look, whatever is not actually classified from the national security perspective, at least go to congress if not to the general public for mueller, because that seems to be the other sticking point that we're seeing right now. >> well, first of all, i know bill barr. have i the greatest confidence in him. he is an outstanding lawyer and a really good person who is well grounded in doing the right thing. so i have confidence that he will do the right thing. i want to make sure everybody is protected from the presumption of guilt. we have the presumption of innocence. >> when you say he should do the right thing, i think viewers go, okay, sir, what is that -- that's like washington talk. what is the right thing here? is it ensuring that the bulk of the nonclassified part of the report should be published? that's the question or not. >> i trust him to exercise good judgment whether there is something in the report that should not be in the public domain. and i would do that in consultation with the special prosecutor. is this something that should be in the public domain? are you just considering it as part of what you've discovered and what should be going forward if you were to present the case to congress to deal for impeachment or for other cases that might be around. there is lots of times when that happens lawyers addressing the possibility of action that could be taken by any entity. that's the responsible thing to do. look, i like full disclosure, but i also believe there are some things that do protect someone's presumption of innocence and our legal system of saying we don't know for sure. we shouldn't put a presumption out there. we should have it based on what -- >> i understand what it's about. and finally, you are a republican, but would you describe your accent as kennedyesque? >> i am. i'm from massachusetts. i'm proudly on the board of the edward m. kennedy institute for the united states senate. there aren't many republicans on the board. i believe in public service. i believe in the noble call of public service. i want to polish the noble call of public service, and i celebrate our democracy. i'm also the chairman of the national endowment of democracy, and i want america's democracy to be the great example for the world to see. and right now we're looking a little bit tarnished. >> tarnished. well, we're over time, but a final thought. >> i just want to say as much of the report, the mueller report as possible needs to be made public. the american people deserve to know what's in it. to the greatest extent possible. >> fantastic. we covered a lot of ground. we didn't event get into the patriots. thanks to each of you. >> thank you very much. >> thank you, sir. >>> coming up, we turn to this bombshell about trump's executive time. what he is really doing in all the blank spaces in the schedule. >>> and new polls showing starbucks billionaire howard schultz out of step on taxes with americans. a rival who got his start none other than a starbucks barista. >>> and a breakdown of a rare move by trump. he just admitted a mistake. >>> also, michael eric dyson will be here to talk the virginia controversy, social justice and the super bowl, and wider issues of race in trump's america. we got a lot to stay tuned. i'm ari melber. you're watching "the beat" on msnbc. msnbc. coaching means making tough choices. jim! you're in! but when you have high blood pressure and need cold medicine that works fast, the choice is simple. coricidin hbp is the #1 brand that gives powerful cold symptom relief without raising your blood pressure. coricidin hbp. when i walked through a snowthat's when i knewtte, i had to quit. for real this time. that's why i'm using nicorette. only nicorette gum has patented dual-coated technology for great taste. plus intense craving relief. every great why, needs a great how. you should be mad they gave this guy a promotion. you should be mad 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(burke) parking splat. and we covered it. talk to farmers. we know a thing or two because we've seen a thing or two. ♪ we are farmers. bum-pa-dum, bum-bum-bum-bum ♪ >>> a leaker inside trump's white house just revealed tons of new details about trump's work day, and how it doesn't involve much traditional work. three months of trump's schedules now splashed across the news site axios which reports over 60% of trump's day consists of what's generally not considered work in the federal government. open time where trump watches tv or lounges around. the white house has famously dubbed this executive time. other insiders have joked about how e-time is watching tv, reading the paper and responding to things on tv. we documented how trump works less than other presidents, golfs more and let years pass without even filling federal vacancies that only a president can appoint. what's new tonight beyond those reports is the sheer detail of these internal calendars. the trump never wanted the public to see them, and this may be why. the private schedule reveals that on days when he's not traveling, trump kicks off his day with three hours of executive time. the first actual meeting with another person will come in the 11:00 a.m. hour, typically followed by executive time, followed by lunch, and then more executive time. now you might be thinking all this unstructured alone time must be exhausting. how long can he keep it up? the answer is not long, because most of the time 67%, trump calls it quits before or by 5:00 p.m. the shorter hours contrast to past president, bush was in the office by 7:00 a.m. obama came in around 9:00 compared to trump's leisurely 11:00 a.m. and it's not about whether you're an early riser or night owl, bush showed a ten hour plus, obama showed nine hours plus a habit for late night memos in the residence. trump clocking in at a cool six hours a day in the oval. critics say this you were to discount even part of the executive time, that would leave trump literally treating the presidency as a part-time 20 hour a week job. trump aides push back on all this. they insist he does a range of meeting, events and calls, that e-time is part of the more creative environment he needs to flourish, and that as an unstructured leader he is also, quote, the most productive president in modern history. while reporting out this story, we did call some former coworkers of trump, and they did say he used to be known for working longer hours. it does look like something has changed. maybe he is less interested in this particular job or maybe he has slowed down in general. what are the consequences for the rest of us when the president is effectively part time. i'm joined now by chris lou who served a as top aide to obama for years, who has an expertise in u.s. labor. for comparison's sake, and someone i happen to know works a full week. >> full time. >> how does this compare to other presidents' schedules and two, how does it compare to most employed full-time laborers in the united states? >> let me say this. the average u.s. worker puts in about 44 hours on the job. in just nine days, the average worker is more time on the job than the number of meetings, the time of meetings that this president has done over a three-month period of time. so now let me give you the context of president obama. i worked for obama for 11 years. i saw his schedule when he was a senator, a president-elect and a president. you're right. he got in about 9:00 a.m. he worked continuously through the day until about 6:00 or 6:30. he went and had dinner with his wife and kids, and then he was back working late into the evening or early into the morning. he often had evening events. he had weekend events. we had weekend senior staff meetings. it doesn't compare at all to what president trump is doing. >> liz? >> i've met uber driver, part-time uber drivers who have less flexibility than the president does in his schedule. your producer actually handed me a cowboy of your sort of standard wednesday. >> that's a real schedule from the axios leak. >> yes. and it is -- i mean, in his defense, it's hump day. wednesdays can be different. >> it is hump day. what do you see there? >> i don't see -- there is a lot of executive time, to your point, from 8:00 to 11:00. at 11:00 he had a half-hour meeting. and back to executive time. and then an hour lunch. and then more executive time. and then that's it. that's a big day. yeah, two-thirds of his time is basically unaccounted for. we do not know what the president is doing 60% of the time. and, you know, the -- it's easy to chalk that up to being lazy, but it's also the secrecy. it's kind of strange that your own staff doesn't know what you're doing. that is not the standard. >> or the close staff. because i've been around as a reporter, i've been in there sometimes in the oval. the close staff knows exactly whether you're in the oval or not. >> right. >> and if you're not doing anything. >> exactly. and so you have to wonder the person who leaked this, if they're just leaking it because they're -- they want the president to get to work or if they're worried some of the things he is doing while unaccounted for. >> which wisconsin is something that even the trump supporters would say wait, we elected someone. we want them to get the agenda done. it's hard to do that if you never go to work. >> exactly. >> or it could just be someone being messy. >> perhaps. >> chris, i want to contrast this in owl serious reporting here, what the president says he is doing. in november the president was heading to mar-a-lago for five days which he claimed was a working da i to the press. >> we're going down to the southern white house. we have a lot of work we're going to be doing. in florida. >> but now we have trump's calendar showing while he is in mar-a-lago, one scheduled event, a block of time on thanksgiving thanking military families. a private schedule for the next day reveals nine hours of executive time with nothing else on the private schedule. what does that even mean, chris? in your view, it's a private day off, is that correct? >> right. look, if you look through all three months of the schedules as i did, there are policy briefings in there. there are personnel meetings. there is time with the cabinet. so we can stipulate that some of this executive time may be legit. but really, the presumption is that the president really is not working. and you based it on all of the accounts that he is on the phone, see gabbing with his friends. believe me, he is certainly not reading his policy memos, because if you believe the reporting, he likes one or two-page memos. he likes a lot of pictures in there. how long can you really spend looking at a one-page memo with a bunch of pictures? >> and sometimes, liz, the joke becomes basically true. here is an older sound bite of colbert. take a look. >> it's the end of the workweek. of course donald trump's workweek never really begins. personally, i think the president of the united states should work at least as many hours as a 15-year-old saving up for an xbox. >> i mean, my favorite part is the response which you talked about at the beginning of the segment. the response from the white house saying that this is -- he needs a creative environment so that he can work, and obviously, i'm sure -- >> like a dj or something. >> or a toddler. i feel like that's -- yeah, we would normally refer to the president of the united states. but we have twitter. we have access to twitter. we see that he is tweeting. we see that he is tweeting and responding to "fox & friends" and to other programs that are on television. so it's very clear and very easy to conclude that a lot of this time is not spent, you know, talking to foreign leaders and planning his presidency. but that it actually is planned in front of a screen or many screens. >> right. if you are a big trump supporter, this may concern you because it shows a lack of focus, efficacy and productivity. in other words, so many things in this era become ideological because this sounds negative, the idea that he ran for president but isn't working. people can interpret that as they see fit. but if you're a big supporter, you would want the person using that powerful office and not appearing to waste so many hours. presidential time one of the most valuable things. and it may explain why there are so many vacancies, because no one can pick up that part of the job for him. he has to pick those appointees. we had here interior department, 41%. justice department, 41%. labor department, 43s. some of the numbers bear it out. liz plank and chris lu. >> thank you. >>> as promised, first, an exclusive interview with the coffee ceo who says schultz is on a failure run when we're back in just 30 seconds. to make you everybody else... ♪ ♪ means to fight the hardest battle, which any human being can fight and never stop. does this sound dismal? it isn't. ♪ ♪ it's the most wonderful life on earth. ♪ ♪ >>> there is a lot more happening in today's politics than trump. tonight some of the liberals pushing for a tougher stance on wall street millionaires are arguing the public is with them. a whopping 76% of voters backing plans to tax the wealthy more. most republicans back part of the elizabeth warren style program for a sutax on the supe wealthy. now these facts undercut a common and conventional wisdom that voters dislike taxing the wealthy because they hope to make into it the 1% some day. it's something a master marketer like trump understood during his campaign. the tax law ultimately did do the opposite. >> do you believe in raising taxes on the wealthy? >> i do. i do. including myself. i do. >> i am willing to pay more. and you know what? wealthy are willing to pay more. we've had a very good run. >> all this reverberating amidst the backlash to starbucks millionaire howard schultz who cared to think he would be channeling popular opinion when he called senator warren's tax ridiculous. co-founder and ceo of the coffee company lamakes about $100 million a year. carmichael got his start as a barista at starbucks and opposed schultz's independent bid for president. you have endorsed elizabeth warren. >> i have. >> thanks for being here. what do you think howard schultz misunderstands? and do you think it's partly because he is living a certain type of billionaire life? >> yeah, it's kind of hard to tell where he went wrong. i think there are multiple variables at play. part of it is he is out of touch. but also, i don't think he recognizes that ceos make really, really bad presidents to begin with. the idea of you're successful at selling lattes, you're going to really kill it in the oval office, it really doesn't convey over. we see this time and time again with ceos, thinking that service to the country is the same thing as making profits. >> he has often touted starbucks for being more than a typical corporation in taking care of its employees, something we've reported on here, which is why it makes it all th
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