member of parliament for romford. lloyd russell—moyle, former labour member of parliament liam halligan economist and journalist.et's begin. and the whole debate through the houris and the whole debate through the hour is about whether this is a budget for growth. but let's just begin on the national finances. i just feel that neither party are levelling with the public about just how big the public about just how big the national debt is getting. >> well, the national debt. nigel, is the thick end of 100% of gdp. what does that mean? it means that the debt that we have to pay back as a government, albeit through time, is equivalent to the size of the entire economy in a single year. in context, back in 2009, before the financial crisis, the national debt was about 30% of gdp, and before covid, it was about 80% of gdp. it's now 100% of gdp. there's lots to talk about. of gdp. there's lots to talk about . the sort of big picture about. the sort of big picture of this budget is that rachel reeves just increased spending by about £70 billion a year. she increased taxation by about 40 odd billion pounds a year, most