. >> and so for instance, lahore one of the great cities of the world in punjab is 30 miles or so from the sikh capital but different countries so it divided families there is a great migration of people back, hindus and muslims going either way the greatest migration in the world so 1947 you have a state that was formed, with basicically nothing in common other than they are now pakistani they have a flag, their own government and the two leading lights, one mr. jana, he was an english speaker he died and then the cofounder of pakistan died there they were two years into this great experiment with no leaders and so in this land, very fertile land, but then this were about 50 million people maybe now -- >> 100 and something. >> 180. >> tripled in the land size and lahore to islam ma bad is like driving san francisco to l.a. >> how did you practice the different religions? >> part of what happened, the zea who came in, moved the government officially toward being an islamic state and at the beginning, janaa saw it as pakistan was muslim with a lot of rights guaranteed to other religions

. >> so for instance, lahore one of the great cities of the world in the punjab is 30 miles or so from the sikh capital but they are different countries so it divided families, remember there is a great migration of people back -- hindu's and muslims going either way. the greatest migration in the world, 1947 you have a state formed, with basically nothing in common other than they are not pakistani they have a flag, their own government then the two leading lights, mr. jinaw an english speaker he died, and the cofounder died and so there they were, two years into this great experiment with two leaders. and so in this land, very fertile land, but then there were about 50 million people maybe. >> 100 something. >> 180 would be the number, it tripled in the land size and lahore to islamabad is like driving san francisco to l.a. >> how free are you to practice the different religions is this. >> part of what happened, the zea who came in, moved the government officially toward being islamic state and at the beginning, jinaw saw it as pakistan was muslim but with a lot of rights guaranteed

. >> reporter: an instant internet celebrity who moved his family here from lahore last year to escape the terrorists. >> i came here to escape all the bombings and now i find myself living in the same town as him. >> reporter: a small town once far removed from the fight against terrorism. now the site of one of its most important battles. nbc news pentagon correspondent jim miklaszewski reports that u.s. officials are providing a clearer picture of the kind of fire fight that took place here. it wasn't an intense back and forth but really more one-sided. mostly it was the navy s.e.a.l.s doing the shooting. it's what they call a precision-clearing operation. >> stephanie gosk, thank you. we wanted to let you know as well, ann curry has now tonight arrived in pakistan. her reporting will begin airing tomorrow morning on "today." >>> back here at home tonight, flooding in the midwest is at such crisis levels, it's led to some extreme measures. as we told you last night, government engineers are actually blowing up levees to direct water away from inundated areas and some areas of popula

this time in the city of lahore. 200 miles southeast of the capital. lahore, not in a cave some where, not in the autonomous regions but in pakistan's second largest city. >> good evening, everyone. a major victory tonight on the war on terror. the suspected master mind of the 9/11 attacks against the united states khalid mohammed was arrested in pakistan. >> he was arrested before dawn in pakistan near islamabad by pakistani and american agents. >> otherwise known as pakistan's fourth largest city. most of the terrorists who are in custody who had anything to do with 9/11, who you ever heard of because there's a big enough deal for you to have heard of them have been arrested in big cities in pakistan. often in nice houses in big cities in pakistan. if you google pindy what comes up in english is a million mentions of it as a garrison city. the other place in pakistan you find described as a garrison city if it's described at all is abbotabad, where osama bin laden was just found. a garrison city. basically just means that sit a military city. it is a

services veterans paid tribute to those who perished in the war alexia jet ski reports from the city of lahore. a holiday for millions yes clearly brought for sun unlike most of the post soviet region on may the ninth this ukrainian since he became a vicious display of neo nazis and. several thousand activists from radical nationalist parties block the entrance to red army soldiers cemeteries preventing war veterans from getting inside and paying tribute some in this part of ukraine do not see may the ninth as a reason to celebrate leaving the soviet period to be worse than enduring nazi occupation the st george's ribbon is usually worn as a tradition on may the ninth to commemorate those who died in the great crash or to war but on this day in the western ukrainian capital city often off putting this on your lapel would have meant serious risk regardless of whether you're a veteran or not. like you do i think that the ribbons were forcibly ripped from the chests of those who were heading to the grave yards along with abuse of chance such as death to the most rights nazi salutes pearling walks

2006 and returned to pakistan in the summers of 2007 and 2008 visiting the research association in lahor, and so he's co-authored chapters in a book called "religion security, the new nexus in international relations." i'll stop there. 25 minutes or so for you. that would be great, and without further adieu. >> thank you so much, and thank you all for coming. i'm deeply flattered to be invited to the world bank. it's great pleasures to speak along two people whose work i greatly admire, and i'm indebted to josh -- >> turn the mic on. >> oh, so sorry, and i'm indebted to josh for many insights in particular. well, i thought i'd begin with my latest visit last month in which i went to bashar because it's a good way of leading into the fact that despite a good deal of the western media commentary, pakistan is not a failed state nor even yet, nor in my view in the future, a failing state. these are terms in which like so many terms of this kind have been picked up as sort of catch phrases by academia and cornellism and used with -- journalism on used with wildly and in inappropriately places

banker with a mission: trying to stamp out poverty in neighborhoods like this one, in her hometown of lahorekistan. educated in the united states, zafar has made an estimated one million loans to some of the poorest people here. >> you may not see the same poverty that we saw over a decade ago. so after 10 years, you begin to see changes in the family and their lifestyle. >> reporter: her business in micro-finance-- lending small amounts of money to start and expand businesses-- is tough to make work in a country where two thirds of the people live on less than $2 a day. and it's gotten even tougher in recent years. last summer's epic floods meant an end to all loans in the affected regions. those who had lost everything needed immediate assistance to get their lives back in order rather than loans they'd have to repay and there's the ongoing threat of terrorism. she says its both an on-going threat and an urgent reason for her work. what's the connection between these communities and terrorism in the work that you're doing? >> i think economic development is one of the tools that can help u

they are just not allowed to be used and my favorite example is the traffic that takes place between lahoreand across the border at the barter post. there is a highway that runs, a road, a nice road that runs between the two countries. and trucks are employed to deliver goods on the other side of the border. what is interesting is that border, the roads open at 5:00 a.m. in the morning. why it is not open 24 hours as a security matter but they open at 5:00 a.m. in the morning but it closes at 2:00 p.m. in the afternoon. why white is a close at 2:00 p.m. in the afternoon? the reason is that they have to prepare for the flag ceremonies on either side of the border which take place at sunset so the borders are closed at 2:00 in the afternoon because they have to prepare. these are things that do not require parliamentary approval. these are not things that require major negotiations. all you can say is okay, you want to have the ceremony? fine, have the ceremony and build a road around the ceremony. anyway, that is my story. now i think, let me just end by saying reducing trade terriers, again

of inflicting a lot of of damage on pakistan, and especially in the northwest, but in places like lahorend karachi, too. >> they don't have a bin laden, say, one strong leader? >> if they have one, it is a man who appeared next to the jordanian suicide bomber who killed the cia employees. he appeared next to him in a video that was recorded before that happened to show that the pakistani taliban was ready to start operations beyond the immediate pakistani hinterland and last year in new york the times square bombing was carried out from a man who had training from the pakistani taliban and not al qaeda, but the pakistani taliban. >> it is interesting to hear from al qaeda and al shabab groups, but now the pakistani taliban. we have to continue the discussion, because it is fascinating. tim lister, thank you. sgloot >> in the days after the raid that killed osama bin laden, the world was hungry about details of the operation and bin laden's last moments and s.e.a.l. team six. and the details kept trickling out from the president and the pentagon and others close to the operation, but it i

cia security operatives who had been jailed after fatally shooting two pakistani men in the city of lahorethe scud in north carolina. what are your thoughts, osama bin laden killed? caller: i want to draw attention to the fact when president obama was campaigning for president, he was actually driving the policy toward president bush and dick cheney because if anyone can remember, he was saying that they should use drones. whenever he would speak during the debate, whenever he would say, he would -- they would go and do whatever he said. the continuity they're giving bush credit for action was driven by president obama. he said he would get him, and he did. he used intelligence rather than the cowboy bullied type rhetoric that we saw in the previous administration. his emphasis has always been on diplomacy and intelligence. in this case, it has worked. i am glad it did. host: dave, champagne, eleanor. caller: i went to point out how inappropriate it was to sell michael's book for him read it is just like david letterman or anyone who has a guy on selling a book. host: i ask him about his b

houses with extremely high walls, barbed wire, with guards, with solid gates and i often i drive in lahore or islamabad who lives behind these high walls. i have no idea. i think it also points a very real weakness in the pakistan security apparatus. the interservices intelligence good at getting information frrgt countries. it's been less able to deal with counter terrorism inside the country. it's not just a question of numbers. it's also a question of orientation and training. the people that are best placed to do that are the police. pakistan has something like 19 police institutions. but they haven't yet put together a national counter terrorism authority, which has been on the cards for two years. they need to be working together because it's the community police, the local police, who know who comes and goes from a community. it's their job, and if they can work together perhaps they'll be to keep a better eye on some of these individuals. i have a personal theory about where osama bin laden's other colleagues are. i would suggest that we look in a 60-mile radius around abbottabad b