you know, lance armstrong walked away with $100 million even after being stripped of titles and saidd do it again. that's the message we have to counter act, we have to do it with more criminal sanctions and do it with taking cheating more seriously in schools. we need to create reward structures that give people different incentives than they now have in many workplaces. >> twice you said to me we just don't care. what is the phrase you used? >> ethical fading. >> i love that term. ethical fading. why does it exist? why do we not care the way she should -- the way we should? >> we develop rationalizations, everyone does it. they deserved it. people feel that file sharing is a victimless crime. but in fact, the artists are not getting paid and others are bearing the burden because a high percentage of people cheat. it doesn't help when you have a president who has this history of cheating in pretty much sphere of life, from his golf games to universities to his taxes, to stiffing contractors. only a third of americans think his honesty and ethics are acceptable and 63 million people

you have to ask yourself if you were a cyclist, which you want lance armstrong as a coach.ind of leader as your boss? that type oft leader cultivating the next generation of leaders for business? this brings us to one other thing, which has been about board structures in japan, etc. this is chart 1510 on the bloomberg terminal. is this one of the reasons why turquoise, s&p in looking at 19.5 or thereabouts, and ratios in japan are below that in the white line -- is that one of the reasons why we have that? in spite of these massive rallies we have seen on the nikkei 225 so far this year? that it is one of the reasons. i think that board reform in japan could change that. i think there are still a number of companies in japan where that reform has not taken place and is waiting they wish and's down. -- weighing valuations down. rishaad: you have seen companies instituting change from the top to make them better run and that top-down approach working. >> yes. i think a good example of that one company that is endeavoring to change the withny culture, starting imposing the use