and there is wayne lapierre saying not one more law. >> of course they -- disagree with where lapierreecause most members of the nra when they go out and hunt never discharge more than two or three bulls at a time. the vast majority of nra members have never looked at a 30-round or 100-round clip that goes into one of these guns. listen, he is so fundamentally out of step with where the nra is, that those politicians in washington that have had their votes frankly for decades dictated by the nra need to free themselves from those chains. i don't think there is any political gain any longer to following wayne lapierre when the majority of gun owners absolutely believe that there is common sense gun legislation to take these military-style weapons off the table. to get these high capacity clips off of the table and allow them to get back to the sport that they enjoy. listen, this guy walked into sandy hook elementary school and within ten minutes, had killed 27 people. only two people escaped with injuries. there is absolutely no reason why gun owners and non gun owners can't come to the

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lapierre? the supreme court has confirmed gun owner rights in this country, mayor bloomberg was on the program last week saying you tried to get the president not to be reelected, you failed in this effort. he says you don't have the clout that you had politicly in this town in past debates. >> the american people, i know one thing about them, they value their freedom. when the reality of the consequences of what the politicians in this town and the media and elites want to do to their rights and take them away, i think they'll do what they've done historically, defend the freedom. the american public knows the scene of the crime, it's a criminal and a victim. all these politicians and people like mayor bloomberg, new york city, if you're rich and you're famous, you get your permit, if you're a .300 hitter with the mets, you get a permit, a big developer, you get a permit, wall street executive, you get a permit, the mayor's buddy, you get your permit. if you're a guy in the bronx, most in need

lapierre. answering questions for the first time since this shooting. i want to get right to it. welcome back to the program. >> thank you, david. >> you promised in the wake of this massacre 26 people murdered that the nra would, quote, offer meaningful contributions to help make sure this never happens again. if we boil down your appearance before the news media on friday, this was your message. >> the only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun. >> you proposed armed guards in school. we'll talk about that in some detail in a moment. you confronted the news media, you blamed hollywood and the gaming industry but never once did you concede that guns could actually be part of the problem. is that a meaningful contribution, mr. lapierre, or a dodge? >> david, i said what i honestly thought and what hundreds of millions of people all over this country will believe will actually make a difference. i can't imagine a more horrible tragedy than what happened. we all have 5-ye

the head of the nra, wayne lapierre, said guns are not the problem. instead, he took aim what the he called the media machine in this country, a cracked system for dealing with mentally ill, and the federal government, whose enforcement of existing restrictions on guns he called pitiful. facing a barrage of tough questions for the first time since its deadly massacre in newtown, on meet the appreciation the nra's ceo, wayne lapierre, forcefully defended his call for armed officers in every school. >> if it's crazy to call for putting police and armed security in our school to protect our children, then call me crazy. i think the american people think it's crazy not to do it. it's the one thing that will keep americans safe the nra is going to do that. >> reporter: critics point to columbine and virginia tech, both of which had armed guards, unable to stop the carnage. but the leading voice disagrees for the gun lobby. >> say i'm mom or dad and dropping my child off at school, i feel a whole lot safe we are these great men and women on police forces. >

it seems like fear itself is the only thing that wayne lapierre has to offer. let's take a listen to this. >> violent crime is increasing again for the first time in 19 years. add another hurricane, terrorist attack, or some other natural or manmade disaster, and you've got a recipe for a national nightmare of violence and victimization. >> mark, can wayne lapierre get then ra out of the fix it's in by scaring people into thinking that all we need is guns, that guns are the answer to every particular catastrophe that we confront in this country? >> you know, i must admit, i have been a student of then ra for a long time. my dad was a gun dealer in colorado, knew lots of nra members. i have to say i was surprised by what happened today. his comments were, first of all, factually incoherent and struck me as being so politically tone deaf that it kind of left me wondering where this impression came from that the nra was a political powerhouse. i think they have a real problem on their hands, and part of the reason they have a problem on their hands is that, in fac

>> well, wayne lapierre works for the gun manufacturers. he really doesn't represent the majority of the members who are far more sane and responsible than the leadership is. you know, if you -- there is 125,000 public schools in the country. a security guard at 50,000 with benefits per year, that's $6.25 billion. do you think the nra would be willing to tax its guns and ammunition in order to pay that? i doubt it. but more importantly, ed, do we really want our children to grow up into a world where the first thing they see when they cross the school threshold is a military-style assault weapon carried by somebody with a weapon, a vest and dressed in a s.w.a.t. uniform? i mean, it seems to me -- i know that's the world the nra envisions. but it seems to me we're so much better than that. that's not the world we want our children to grow up into. and it's time for this country to say no to the nra. the fact that you have 19 times greater likelihood of being killed by a firearm in the united states than any other industrialized nation in the

. >> is wayne lapierre really crazy?eed a doctor to answer that question, but one thing is for sure. his grasp of reality is slipping. >> dwrour telling me if you don't have an ability to shoot off 30 rounds without refiring that possibly you could reduce the loss of life. adam lanza might not have been able to shoot as many kids? >> i don't buy your argument for a minute. >> this is why they're in trouble. wayne lapierre has claimed for decades guns blame no role in gun violence. logic is finally beating ideology. let's bring in epstein and richard wolffe. gentlemen, thanks for joining me. >> good to be with you. >> thanks. >> i'm going back to lapierre in a moment but first i want to talk about the christmas eve ambush in new york. >> the man responsible for killing two firefighters was also armed with a bushmaster .223, the same gun lanza used at sandy hook. of course lapierre would say this is a coincidence. but others would say this is perhaps a sign there are too many out there. >> these are first responders we're

wayne lapierre took no argument. he called for armed guards in school and ripped the media for reporting misinformation and failing to nail the real culprits. >> in a race to the bottom, media conglomerates compete with one another to shock, violate and offend every standard of civilized society. by bringing in an even more toxic mix of reckless behavior and criminal cruelty right into our homes. >> so, is there any validity to these bombastic charges against the press. joining us now here in washington, terence smith, former correspondent for pbs news hour and cbs news and "new york times." and tom foreman who attended friday's nra event. tom, what was it like being at this nra event? i won't call it a press conference. are you surprised that not a single journalist got to ask a question? >> it was not a press conference. all of us expected to exchange questions and answers with wayne lapierre and the president of nra who was there. it didn't happen at all. it did not happen but adamantly did not happen. several of

lapierre. >> wayne lapierre came out after a week of silence. he talked about disdain for the media, violent video games and the lack of security at school was part of the problem but avoids guns being part of the problem. what's the reaction from this press conference? >> in washington the reaction was somewhat shocked by the news conference just because of the tone. it was so different from what we've been hearing from others in particular president omo bama who had called out on gun control. he's made this commission that vice president will lead that's supposed to report backy. and then wayne lapierre came forward and talked about putting armed officers in the nation. he was not aiming for the beltway crowd. that's important to remember. it will be interesting in the next few weeks and months how his comments played in other parts of the country outside the beltway. that's who he was talking to. >> he made the rounds in the morning talk shows and stood his ground despite the backlash. it would cost more than $2 billion to put security office

lapierre. what i hear you saying is, well, you can't -- you can't do anything about high capacity ammunition magazines because it won't work and you're proposing things that won't work. you're into the art of the possible. your standard is anything that has a chance of working you'll try except when it has to do with guns or ammunition. don't you see that people see that as a complete dodge? >> nrr supports and funded the child safety program and have accidents down to one-tenth of what they used to be. we've supported prison building and programs like project exile where every time you catch a criminal with a gun, a criminal with a gun, prosecute them 100% of the time. if you want to control violent criminals, take them off the street. that's what every police officer out there knows works. we've supported the instant check system and supported getting these records into the instant check. >> you don't deny even the instant check system has huge holes, just like the mental health registry has

wayne lapierre is going to speak, the head of the nra. we got a warning two minutes ago that it would be two minutes. we're waiting for him to show up. the nra is america's premiere gun rights lobby. it may be facing its biggest challenge in years as many americans shocked, they were shocked by newtown and they're calling for tougher restrictions on guns and ammunition, and while we wait for the group's executive director to appear, wayne lapierre, i want to bring in several of my colleagues now. first off, wolf blitzer is here, jessica yellin is at the white house, dana bash on capitol hill, and jeffrey toobin is in new york for us. as we wait, wolf, let's start with you. is this, in fact, a turning point for guns in america? do you think we'll hear anything like that in this press conference? >> i know a lot of attitudes have hardened as a result of what has happened over the past week in newtown, connecticut. you were there, i was there, and people all over the country and all over the world are outraged by the horrible nature of that

. >> reporter: wayne lapierre, the long-time executive vice president of the nra, took to the podium in washington just an hour or so after the national moment of remembrance. for a week, the nra had been silent, uncharacteristically silent as their opponents lambasted them. >> change, change, change! >> reporter: today, lapierre fired back. >> the only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun. but since when did the gun automatically become a bad word? i call on congress today to act immediately to appropriate whatever is necessary to put armed police officers in every single school in this nation. >> reporter: it was the classic nra crisis response. no retreat. no surrender. the answer to gun violence is, more guns, lapierre said, and rerailed against the very notion of gun-free school zones. >> they tell every insane killer in america that schools are the safest place to inflict maximum mayhem with minimum risk. >> reporter: lapierre really had another mission. blame. it's not guns, he argued, it's -- >> blood-soaked films out there, violent video games. the

lapierre or a dodge? what i honestly thought and what millions and hundreds of millions of people in this country believe will make a difference. >> no. no. he -- we'll keep going. everyone is saying if wayne lapierre's interview is enough for the backlashing of the more guns solution. this comment by west harvard's superintendent tom moore. i come from a family of hunters. i'll ask for christmas after hearing wayne lapierre blame officials for the shooting is for my brothers to resign from the nra. they may have to go back to the drawing board to convince people it seeks meaningful change. i stepped on my statement a bit. what he said was he was speaking for the majority of gun owners and what they think. it was not true. we have data. views on gun control measures have changed. this is questions now on whether people support specific kinlds of gun control that wayne lapierre was asked about. the question of whether or not we should ban high capacity clips. 59% support, 38% oppose. on the question of ban

lapierre crazy. "new york post" owned by rupert murdoch has the front page today calling him gun nut. >> mr. rupert who is -- >> this is important, not because any of us want to make him subhuman or really hurt him, but this is coming from a conservative place where many conservatives are standing up saying it is nutty. >> a point that we try to make a lot, you have to make a distinction between nra members and the nra leadership. we have frank luntz do a poll of nra members. he's no shrinking daisy or crazy lefty like some of you. >> some. i think it's a great point. i just want to show one quick thing before we go to another break. there was an amazing home page, the huffington post had, because we have been talking about the mass shiiootings, but talking about the individual deaths. this is since newtown. take a look at that. this is how many people have died in gun crimes since then. >> how many people have died, how many people are going to continue to die, how many people could be maimed and pu

talking about things lapierre gets paid a lot of money to talk about on a regular basis.y things even nra members don't believe. i think it is important as we have this debate that nra members are not the washington leadership. they're two very different things. nra members want commonsense gun laws. the washington leadership fights very hard against them. you're going to see that rift widening after today's weird performance. >> here's a bit what was he said from his news conference today, wayne lapierre. i called congress to act immediately to appropriate whatever is necessary to put armed police officers in every single school in this nation and to do it now to make sure that blanket safety is in place when our kids return to school in january. is there any research or evidence that in fact arming security guards, arming teachers, arming administrators, would be an effective solution here? >> no. there's no research that says that putting more firearms in the hands of trained or untrained professionals in a shoot-out is going to make anybody who's sitting around safer.

as we saw in the news conference by wayne lapierre today.banning any sorts of guns are the problem. they think there are monsters out there, as he said, but it's okay for the monsters to buy weapons as long as the good guys have weapons, too. that's the solution to their problem. so however many bullets you can fire at once, machine gun, submachine gun. that's all fine as long as the good guys have guns, we're saying. >> the more guns america has, the more gun murders occur. in japan where they have almost zero guns, they have almost zero gun murders. and the parallels are there all around the world. i don't get why the nra can get away with statements like this, and there isn't just a huge outcry. >> we'll see. i think things have changed somewhat. they remain a very powerful group. they're speaking to a constituency that really believes in their message, and historically, at least, that you cross the nra at your peril as a politician. they have a great deal of money. they have a great deal of influence. politicians care deeply about gettin

though it may not solve the problem, i expected wayne lapierre, i actually expected wayne lapierre tosay exactly what he said and then say oh by the way i have stuck to doom dogmatic positions for too long and it's time to ban the -- >> this is the importance. the nra is built on myths at this point in many ways much the nra has 4 million members. it is essentially a lobby for gun manufacturers. not for its members, who the majority of them according to a poll commissioned by a republican pollster do not agree with the in you're positions on background check, on ban on assault weapons. i think that's important bass the nra myth has put us in a stranglehold in this country. the other thing, i respect the noble sentiments about the need to treat mental illness and deal with the video games but other western industrialized countries have those problems and have video culture. japan is at the cutting edge and don't allow access to military assault-style -- this is not about freedom but tyranny and destruction. >> this is what frustrates -- [ all talking at one ] >> the mental illness argu

>> what lapierre also said is when you look at those officers that are placed in certain public schools they're not armed well enough, perhaps and that they do need to have proper defense. so for instance, the department of education study shows that public schools around the country, 28% have a firearm, and 22% a chemical spray and 17% have a stun gun on firepower alone when you look at these tragedy, unfortunately, even when you do have a police and security at those locations they're severely, severely overmatched when it comes to firepower. >> well, i think it shows in columbine, just for example, even there that having armed police officers at the scene at the school didn't stop that attack from happening. look, i have the utmost respect for men and women in uniform who every day put their lives on the line to protect all of us and i'm grateful for their service, but with security and police having them in the schools isn't the primary answer for protecting our children and it's about preventing people from getting these assault weapons in the first place and we can do that most ef

lapierre had to say yesterday? caller: i thought it was well overdue, and i thought it was dead on as far as the need -- what we need to do in our country. host: so you're in favor of having armed guards in schools? caller: i am. i think it's a sad testament of where our society has gone with regards to the video games and the violence in the movies. i sadly listened to the woman that preceded me, and she is spouting the rhetoric that the liberals tried to ezzpows like the assault rivals. the government dyeds what -- decides what type of firearm every person in the united states of america is allowed to own or not allowed to own, that is the start of the loss of the second amendment, and that will be the disarming of the united states of america. host: kenneth, you talked about the liberals. but in this article, the "new york daily news" this morning, they quote several republicans, among them, senator tom coburn, also objected to lapierre's plan, sort of. he said -- host: what are your thoughts to those responses

wayne lapierre says let's put guns in every school.es, let's arm the teachers, or perhaps have an armed guard in each of these schools. my question to you would be are you not afraid that would lead to more violence? >> oh, heavens. first of all, let me correct you, i don't have two small children. i have two big boys in high school, but i just picked them up and they would be just as vulnerable as the kindergartners. i have firmly held that our teachers should be allowed to carry and quite frankly it frustrates the heck out of me that everyone here in texas and in many states can protect themselves if they jump through the hoops and get a concealed carry permit. why is it that my teachers are being treated like second class citizens? >> but what if the teacher's job is to teach. what if the teacher zpdoesn't wt to be armed? what if you have an armed guard, like in columbine, what if that guard isn't at the right place at the right time and isn't there and can't prevent the shooting? >> you're making my argument for me. >> how is that?

wayne lapierre was speaking to the constituency of the nra. he was careful not to say anything that would offend his own membership. secondly when he was speaking i was hoping that he would speak on behalf of the nra in a calm, constructive and sort of common ground way. but he missed his shot in this talk. instead of emphasizing some kind of positive proposal, he did towards the end of his talk mention this model school shield program which at least is an idea that can be discussed but instead of going right to that and offering it in constructive way he spends the first 15 minutes of his talk bashing the media, talking about the familiar whipping boys of violence in movies and in video games, et cetera and as you pointed out there's no particular correlation between those things and actual violence in society. >> professor, back to your point i want to flaws. you're pointing out research and michael brought thunder as well. our culture is not exclusive to video games and certainly not to mental illness and to repeatedly bring this up as the

again, there was so much within what lapierre said, i agree with the mayor, more of a commercial and i will leave with you one thought. i was with a friend redeploying for a fifth time to afghanistan in march on saturday when we saw the images of the guns that were used and his reaction was that is the gun that i carry in afghanistan. what was it doing in that community? >> not only will them bolden the message from the left but shake people awake on the right? >> i think it already has. i think you have begun to hear and see a number of leading conservative voices saying, yeah, it is time for us to revault and reassess our priorities here. we're not just talking about our kids. we're talking about our nation, our psyche, who are we, and are we going to be ruled by guns or ruled by something bigger and better than that? and i think that this press conference to kaifren's point galvanizes that discussion in a way and honest way and the nra, it is taking a step forward. on "meet the press" wayne will have an opportunity to further explain in greater detail and get asked questions that

but the nra is a hugely powerful entity, no matter if lapierre's comments are seen a little off coloroff message, they are hugely influential in washington and as pete said, they're going to be hugely involved in the lobbying battle on capitol hill if this legislation makes its way to the floor. >> asa hutchison is one of the names brought up here. should he be on the panel that vice president biden will be leading? >> he's a former member of congress, he has sway with people on capitol hill, he's large live seen as somebody who is going to run for governor in his home state of arkansas going forward, he's still an active political figure, former members of congress tend to get more things done here in washington than some other folks but we'll see. >> they don't have to be re-elected. >> that's right. they're going to need a lot of power going forward to get lngs through. >> we heard this on friday, we heard it on sunday from lapierre. he was using the terms "good guys" fairly frequently. does that positive association he's making with police officers, of those who are trained using

wayne lapierre will be speaking.eo of the national rifle association. he began working for the group in 1978, took over the top post in '91. lapierre has been a hardliner on gun rights once saying bill clinton had blood on his hands for supporting gun control measures. tom foreman, cnn's tom foreman, covering the news conference. he's on the phone because they just went through a security sweep in the room before people entered the room where wayne lapierre will begin speaking. tom, tell us what that's like. >> reporter: hi, carol. we just had a security sweep here. we're all getting re-established in the room and we're expecting not only wayne lapierre but a business of a surprise guest, the nra won't say who. i will note a short while ago the president of the nra, dave keen, who is one of the most astute and involved political players for the nra and has been for many, many years with top players in washington, he's one of the point men on any sort of political debate about new gun legislation, he came out promptly

: senator kent conrad of north dakota raises concerns about the cost of securing schools the way lapierre proposes. >> we'll have 130,000 elementary and secondary schools in this country. two officers in each would cost $25 billion. where's that money coming from? >> reporter: his senate colleague chuck schumer of new york thinks the nra's position will only help lawmakers who want more stringent gun regulation. >> well, i think he's so extreme and tone deaf he actually helps the cause of us passing sensible gun legislation in congress. >> reporter: friday president obama assembled a task force to reduce gun violence and wants concrete proposals in a month. ideas on the table include an assault weapons ban and limiting the number of bullets a magazine can hold. in washington steve centanni, fox news. >>> a perfect sunday to round out the weekend, but now is the christmas holiday going to shape up? >> a last look at the forecast. gwen? >> today was wonderful, plenty of sunshine and light winds, but things are changing. current temperatures, 37 d.c., 25 manassas, 25 annapolis. now we've got

lapierre accused cnn of faking a report about guns. in response to mr. lapierre's accusation.e have this statement. >>> a scene over chaos after the syrian warplanes bombed a bakery in hama province. hundred had been waiting in line for bread when it happened. opposition groups say hundreds were killed and many more wounded. >>> here's what's trending online. superstar rihanna honored they are late grandmother this wound weekend in a big way, donated a whopping $1.75 million to a hospital in barbados, set to be renamed after her grandmother. the singer says it's her way of giving back to her home country. >>> house's this for being in the holiday spirit? south korea lit up a christmas tree-shaped tower on a border near north korea? something north korea isn't too happy about as tensions flare between the two countries. >>> marks and spencer is praised for starring a 4-year-old boy with down syndrome in the christmas ad that little boy, his name is second white. some will point out that persons with disabrits indistinguishable from the rest and say a move like this is long over

wayne lapierre wants to put guns in every school. of course we know they had an armed guard at columbine on that want day who traded fire with those killers. some people on the right don't understand why the left is unhappy about this idea of putting guns in every single school. do you think that's a good idea? >> i don't consider myself to be on the left or right. i have very i diediosyncratic i. yes personally i would put a cop who knows how to use guns i would. is it practical? no. i don't see the serious argument against doing that. >> putting more guns around kids, no serious argument around that? >> not in the hands of trained law enforcement officers. thousands of schools do that. a cop in front of a school might see the guy in black camouflage with the automatic, semiautomatic coming towards him. it's worth the cost of his salary. >> good stuff. straight ahead our next guest puts the gop in full meltdown mode. how can leadership handle the party with republicans all wanting to beat to their own drummer and it may be friday bu

schools. >> i want you to listen to wayne lapierre, talking about the high-capacity magazines that ias just discussing with ilya. isn't it just possibility keck redeuce the carnage? >> i don't believe that's going to make one difference. even if you had that, you had that for ten years when dianne feinstein passed that ban in '94, it was on the books. column buy occurred right in the middle of it. it doesn't make any difference. i know this town wants to argue about gun control. i don't think that's what will work. >> what's your reaction? >> we don't deal with gun control specifically, but i can tell you we do a lot of work on incarceration. we know we as a society pay to incarcerate people who perpetrate gun violence. there are plenty of people in prison who are not criminals, who were caught up in emotion and the only crime they ever committed was a crime of passion. you know, if there hadn't been a gun present, if they weren't able to have access to a gun, it's hard to say. to say that it's an individual right is to ignore there's a huge social cost for all of us, not just in ter

the group's ceo wayne lapierre blamed laws banning guns at schools for violence. position, more guns. the nra called for putting an armed guard at every school in the country. >> the only way to stop a monster from killing our kids is to be personally involved and invested in a plan of absolute protection. the only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun. i call on congress today to act immediately to appropriate whatever is necessary to put armed police officers in every single school in this nation and to do it now. >> training thousands of armed guards and what would it accomplish? would one armed person have really been able to stop last week's killer with his semiautomatic rifle and body armor? msnbc political analyst david corn is the washington bureau chief for "mother jones" magazine. are you comfortable with what the nra put forward today? >> absolutely. this is the only answer. more guns equals less crime. if we don't arm the teachers and have guards, this is going to happen again. >> do i understand your view that it would be a re