drives somebody to create something at 21 and then continue to just -- i mean, never resting on his laurals the foot off his pedal, just continuing to innovate. >> it was this personal ambition to show the world that he was right, that he had -- i keep going back to this word taste. it was the biggest insult he would ever say to you. is that you have bad taste. but he meant that in a whole liftic way. that you had no taste when it comes to making phones or making television or making movies or making -- making stores. >> because that is something that is so striking. the beauty of everything. the beauty of the store. even the look of him on that stage is very thought out. >> those presentations -- orchestration is the word. he's orchestrate everything. product launches. the small teams, that's true. apple's become a huge company. to orchestrate a product launch of the ipad on a global scale like that is incredible. i mean, you have all these ipads made. you don't let anyone know. you have a presentation in san francisco that's totally secret until it happens. then you spring it on the world