lauren boebert winning after switching districts. >> jonathan lemire is still with us and joining the conversation we have pulitzer prize winning author and presidential historian doris kearns goodwinus. great group this hour. doris, what will you be looking for leading up to the sedate because you see the down playing the trump side is doing. all of a sudden joe biden is such a strong guy who could really eat him for lunch. >> surely it's just a battle of expectations and that really matters in terms of what you think the person is going to do. you know, for example, in the 1960s, the first ever debate, the expectations were that jfk was too young, too inexperienced, can you imagine that? we worried about him being too young, he was only going to be 43 when he was elected, the youngest president in history. all you needed him to do was stand up side by side to nixon so that he looked like he had stature. here i guess the question is you've got two older people, which one will have more vitality, which one will have more energy, which one will be able to connect with people more, which one will be able to present programs that those people will care about. it's really the same thin