susan, john, lauren lake. go ahead, john. i brace myself. what's her defense? >> well, i don't know what the defense is right now. obviously, the evidence is strong against her, but i think if i'm looking at this, i have to look, first, you want to find out what the motive is or absence of a motive. i want to know what psychologically, and i know you -- you -- maybe there is a significant personality disorder. maybe this person is such a narcissistic personality -- >> mean and -- >> has she been mean before? we want to look at these things. i tend to think -- >> has she been mean before? >> she may may be out of touch with reality. i'm looking for some form of mitigation here. obviously, we have a lot of evidence here to suggest that she wanted to kill her husband, but maybe not. maybe the interpretation should not be so clear cut. these are things though look at. i'm not saying that's clear, but we don't know as lawyers until we get into it and do the checking. >> it's very murky. it's hard to understand. you're looking. you're digging. you're scraping the bot