and in washington, dc, laurence corbett, former assistant secretary of defense and senior fellow at the center for american progress. a warm welcome to you all or rick, let me start with you today from your perspective. do sanctions actually work? are they effective? well, if we ask a normative question, if something works we need an arm. and if in the particular case of banner rose, one would expect the sanctions would lead to a regime change than the clear answer is no. because russia is backing what look are saying when and therefore we can't expect a small use of a particular tool to be enough for a regime change. but it also tends a signal to the people in the country that they are not left alone at time to signal to autocratic leaders, that they don't get away with violations of international law. and so it depends on each case, we can say yes they work or they don't, lawrence, are there diplomatic alternatives to sanctions? and if so, what are they? well basically, sanctions are used because you don't want to, for example, use military force. so in that sense, it's better as my c