states supreme court there's a lot of different symbols and different kinds of depiction office law-givers and the most prominent one is the ten commandments. over 50 displays both inside and outside the supreme court building itself. >> host: matt staver, why drew have the pledge of allegiance on the front of "eternal vigilance." >> guest: another situation that has come under attack about the pledge of allegiance being unconstitutional because, adding in the 1950s "under god" and there's been attacks to that, and so because of that, we put that on the very beginning. that is part of the issue of just simply efforts by some to eliminate religious words or phrases from our history, from our culture, and from our symbols, and of course that battle is still going on. went to the united states supreme court. the supreme court ultimately dismissed the case but has never directly decided it. i suspect if the supreme court does ultimately decide the issue head-on it will find the pledge of allegiance is in fact constitutional. >> host: if liberty university found itself in the position that geor

conscience, payne writes for if the impulses of conscious were clear, uniform, man would need no other law giver. kind of saying that man is infallible. >> you want me to parse necessary. what did he mean by necessary. the quote that you just offered of payne, i think distinguishes him from burke. burke starts with the notion that government is what keeps in line man so that man has the opportunity for improvement. payne, i think, he take as more grudging view of government's organizing and controlling than burke does. which figures because burke wanted to progress, burke didn't want tuesday be free of england. payne wanted to throw the bomb. change. and if you do that, you've got to have some realization that something else has to follow so i think he had -- he certainly was not opposed to any kind of government. certainly wasn't much in favor of a centralized executive, but he would have centralized power in one great legislature, which looks a lot like france. you can tell i'm mistrustful of payne. >> based upon the arab spring, how should -- how would you like to have seen that go. what shou

they saw themselves as law-givers at this unique moment in world history. the first time you could ever do this, determine your own destiny. well, the idea that they got it right, of course, is central to our civic religion in america. we worship the founders. thomas jefferson said, don't. and that's the point i want to make today. there is nobody in the founding period who is more conscious of both the danger of the union, the risks, but also he's more intensely conscious of the rights of an individual. there is a strong libertarian tendency in jefferson's thought and his obsession with rights. on the other hand, there's a strong tendency toward realism, to be aware of the great dangers confronting the nation. and the need to mobilize the force of the nation to sustain its enterprise. so what was the problem with the constitution? why did he say to his good friend, madison, "i don't think we should revere this document. it has many imperfections, and nothing personal, jemmy, but i don't see you as a father or as a founder." now, i'm paraphrasing. it's only

he's the great law giver in civil rights.

he's the great law giver in civil rights. this is a story which is unique from richard nixon who is the middle class after world war ii finding its place in the sun. dwight eisenhower, the man from central kansas who makes a historic and eternal record, not in central kansas, but in london and in paris, similymbolic of t great journey of americans every president represents something different, and each president as they leave office continue in some sense to be president. i think that's why the story plays on. >> julie, president eisenhower goes back to get his birth not as president eisenhower but as general eisenhower. why was that? >> he made it be known mea immediately that he would take his title general of the army and that's because -- although the presidency was a great honor, the highest honor that america can bestow on an individual and he honored the presidency, the defining time of his life, as dave said earlier, was world war ii. the bond that i think he felt with the men that he led. so when you would go to the