from detroit, jamie butters and lawrence ulrich of time inc.'s auto vertical "the drive." pleased to have them all on the program. gentlemen, welcome. i'm looking at the vw and wondering to myself if it doesn't quickly become the biggest auto scandal of all time? but it's easy to feel that way today, so let's put it into perspective. let's rate the vw scandal on the timeline of continuum of auto scandals over the time. we have a lot to choose from in the last five years. g.m., takata, toyota. lawrence, where would you put it? >> it's hard to get perspective at the moment. it's a hot issue, an important issue. i would put it in the low top ten. we're talking about previous scandals from ford pinto to toyota, general motors, injuries, fatalities. no one has died here. perhaps a little lung congestion, and that's not a good thing, but, right, this is a -- it's a bad scandal. it's corrupt. it's the unseemliness that's driving it home, for a company to -- you know, a studious company, you picture volkswagon as this intelligent, german company, educated car in other words, it's