>> well, it's probably a decade ago, henry kissinger, my old professor at harvard, and lee kwan yu, about which i was writing a book which i published -- >> both have done interviews with you. >> and wonderful interviews. these i think are two the strategic leading lights of our lifetime. and each of them kept reminding me-- graham, you're interested in the soviet union, yes, you're interested in the nuclear weapons. china, think about china. i started studying china about 10 years ago. and about five years ago, i stumbled on this idea that the thucydide had a big idea, which was when a rising power threatens to replace a ruling power, in general, bad things happens. that aa lens, as henry says, helps you look through the daily noise and news, to see the-- a primary dynamic here, and that helps us recognize the dangers that are inherent in such a situation. >> rose: i mean,s it as timely as today. this is the "financial times" from today, and it has a picture of xi jinping. "xi jinping, china's president, makes his way to the podium in the great hall of the people to deliver an hour-long

a previous book where it's a great book because 90% of the words in there are lee kwan yu's words. we just do the questions, he does the answers. my colleague are, bob blackwell, a former ambassador to india, so he's very attached. so with malice aforethought, i asked this question. many people say india's going to overtake china. what do you think? he says, young man, do not use india and china in the same sentence. [laughter] he says -- and then he said, and this is when blackwell almost fell all of his chair -- fell off of his chair. he said india is not a real country. it's 24 principalitieses that happen just to be -- principalities that happen to be united by the british rail line. [laughter] be so i'm not betting on india. >> i'll take the other side of that bet. ten years ago i predicted that it was the tortoise and the hare. and as in the fable, the tortoise would overtake the hare. in growth rate terms, that has happened. i think india's fascinating in a number of respects in this context because it's not quite clear how it's going to play the u.s./china rivalry. there wa