in the elections clause context, the constitution empowers the state legislature, the state legislatures to prescribe the time, place and manner for the federal or congressional elections. the petitioners and more versus harper contend that the framers of the constitution did not intend, not redistrict seeing -- redistricting decisions by the state supreme court under the state constitution. their argument in 2020 in regard to the electors clause which similarly and i'm -- and an identical operative plan which confirms upon state legislatures the power to appoint the electors from the state. as you know trying to cast the states votes for the presidency and the vice presidency of the united states. this is the issue from today. whether there is limitations in the state constitutions on that legislatures tower. the most conservative members of the court, then and today, they are asking themselves that question. more fundamentally, they are asking themselves this question. is there any limitation that is necessary on the state supreme court in their interpretation of the state constitution

in order that the state legislatures be permitted to legislate the redistricting. so, this theory didn't come out of nowhere. it was grounded in concurrence in the supreme court itself. now, by december 2020, the supreme court had declined to take the case in the context of the 2020 presidential election, under the electors clause. but there was no question at that time that there were at least five justices on the court who we believed would have been interested in some variation of the theory. the only person of the five who had not actually said as much was justice amy coney barrett, who had just come to the court and did not participate in the court's decision to declined to take those cases than. so, if you fast forward to today, with that same group of nine justices on the court, that thinking is that there are at least five justices who are interested in the theory. but, to your question, none of the justices have expressed interest thus far in as aggressive a version of the independent state legislature theory as it's being advanced by the plaintiffs in thi

sean: state legislatures, no, i don't think so. we have seen them do some things to increase the possibility that someone else might do that. gerald: like? sean: like an election official or like a -- that they increase the possibility that some kind of disruption could be used as a basis for making some poor decision. so, they have increased the likelihood of poll watchers engaging in intimidation. or they have scared election officials with new criminal offenses that they face. we sued texas over that same law, including a provision that makes it a crime for election officials to solicit mail ballot applications. it is a crime for a nonpartisan election official in texas to encourage someone to vote by mail. that means that election officials have to worry that if they give people the right information about voting by mail, they will be accused of a crime. that is one of many examples. they sort of tilt the scales a little bit or intimidate election officials a little bit or create new election police, sometimes people call them.

so they had a one house legislature camera legislature. instead of a governor. they created an executive council the kind of president really and and people that the house representatives would appoint to advise that person that person would sort of execute the will of the legislature. this legislature super hyperpowers itself, right so the legislature, you know appointed judges appointed people to office or they had election of some of these figures of some judicial figures as well. so it's like if they're not elected by the people the business is being conducted by the legislature. the other interesting thing that this constitution did is that it created a lot of accountability? so this is the most people accountable accountable to the people government are created in this period elections were to be annual. so every year you'd have a chance to throw the bum out and elect somebody new. the idea between behind annual elections also was that more people would end up serving. this is also informed a desire for term limits, right they didn't want an entrenched eli

so they had a one house legislature camera legislature. instead of a governor. they created an executive council the kind of president really and and people that the house representatives would appoint to advise that person that person would sort of execute the will of the legislature. this legislature super hyperpowers itself, right so the legislature, you know appointed judges appointed people to office or they had election of some of these figures of some judicial figures as well. so it's like if they're not elected by the people the business is being conducted by the legislature. the other interesting thing that this constitution did is that it created a lot of accountability? so this is the most people accountable accountable to the people government are created in this period elections were to be annual. so every year you'd have a chance to throw the bum out and elect somebody new. the idea between behind annual elections also was that more people would end up serving. this is also informed a desire for term limits, right they didn't want an entrenched eli

state legislatures which have people on them who don't believe the election was fair.republicans are doing about that. stay tuned for that. and jamie dimon does not have good news to share. what the jpmorgan chase ceo say his bank is preparing for. n cha his bank is preparing for. move. our bargain detergent couldn't keep up. turns out it's mostly water. so, we switched back to tide. one wash, stains are gone. [daughter] slurping don't pay for water. pay for clean. it's got to be tide. trying to control my asthma felt anything but normal. ♪ ♪ enough was enough. i talked to an asthma specialist and found out my severe asthma is driven by eosinophils, a type of asthma nucala can help control. now, fewer asthma attacks and less oral steroids that's my nunormal with nucala. nucala is a once-monthly add-on injection for severe eosinophilic asthma. nucala is not for sudden breathing problems. allergic reactions can occur. get help right away for swelling of face, mouth, tongue, or trouble breathing. infections that can cause shingles have occurred. don't stop steroids unless

legislature is the one that will work with them.on't have to do that. >> the last administration, there were nine to 11 taxes proposed. that is good news. we don't need them right now. we just had a breakthrough in our oil, we will have more resources. it will bring a billion dollars in savings. >> i look for cuts, i always look for cuts first. >> how are any of you ever going to fix the schools that children don't have any opportunities in right now that are closing? i guess you would rather sacrifice children then do the right thing. quick thank you, gentlemen. now we have one last question before we moved to closing statements. this is not part of our lightning round. what are the biggest challenges you see ed for the new governor? candidates will have one minute to answer. >> ending this game where governor dunleavy fits alaskans against alaskans where you either have the biggest police crisis or you get a construction budget because he wants you in austerity so he will let you have all of those things but if you enter the 1.2 b

the independent state legislature theory.ustice rehnquist claimed the constitution gave state legislatures complete control over presidential elections. today, some republicans want that unchecked power over all federal elections. to put it very simply, state legislatures can do whatever they want and state courts, even the state's supreme court, has no authority to say what you're doing violates the state constitution. >> and what makes this so poignant is that right now in america, most of the state legislatures are controlled by republicans. >> six of rehnquist's fellow justices rejected the theory. but this court has seen four conservatives already voice some support. if the theory stands, election experts predict chaos in any close contest, with legislatures questioning the results and maybe even selecting their own electors. >> imagine it's 2024. the presidential election is so close it all comes down to one state, let's say pennsylvania. >> pennsylvania's voters choose the democrat. but the republican-dominated legisla

the constitution doesn't go to the states, it gives it to the state legislatures. if you were just looking at the text of the constitution, it would seem like there's a pretty strong argument that when the state legislature comes up with districting lines, assuming the election clauses fully applicable to districting lines as well as times of the polls being open and the like, it seems clear from the text of the constitution that if the state legislature sets that, maybe the state courts aren't in a position to second-guess that, applying state constitutional law or state other law. but a few years ago, the supreme court, in a case called arizona republican legislature versus the arizona independent districting commission came across the same text and basically said it was ok for arizona to give the redistricting authority, taken away from the state legislature and give it to an independent commission. that was a 5-4 decision. chief justice was in dissent along with justice scalia and justice thomas and justice alito. in some respects, the court is going to be revi

scott: this is something the legislature had agreed to. we put it into this independent body to make these grants, and they have to fulfill those responsibilities. there are certain requirements go along with that. if marvel did not provide for that, then they don't get the money. ms. siegel: they already got the money. gov. scott: then they pay it back. that is a requirement within the grant process. that is an independent body. that is not something that we did, but i do think it is a good idea. we need to keep the economy going. you have to pay for all the programs you want. if we don't have a healthy economy that brings in tax revenue, we will not be able to take care of the very people you are trying to help, so we have to have a healthy economy, and that is one small little piece of what we need to do to provide for a growing economy in vermont. >> we have time for you to ask one more question. gov. scott: across the state, we are significantly understaffed in law enforcement. state police are down in record numbers. no burlington, r

ron desantis said with the florida legislature was intending to do, republican's in the legislature,it bad gerrymandering, it didn't go far enough so he said i will veto that which the republican legislature would do an veto that.re they caved in on that which he proposed. a judge that given florida, visit amanda that requires redistricting to be done on a nonpartisan basis. the judge said for the government supposed is inappropriate, a negative impact african-american voters against the northern part of florida and something loosing recumbent do present day, talk about the situation you described in the book north carolina but it's typical of the problem we have to call out and confront. too many republicans are afraid of people saying who they want to represent. they want to take their own voters as opposed to letting citizens choose who their representatives off to be. >> in the book we read about a student named seizure in north carolina, historically black college and she explained to her classmatesd what they were doing with their voices, raising the power of the vote, she went

constitution gives state legislatures the authority for redistricting? and if that is true, how could congress make the change you want by l law? >> it works a little differently depending upon when you talk about state elections or federal elections. when it comes to state elections by individual state constitution and undresses no authority to interfere with that. it comes to federal elections, elections for the u.s. house of the u.s. senate, the constitution gives authority to both state legislatures and to the u.s. congress. this is a provision called the elections clause. i will try and recite it to the best of b my ability off the top of my head. it basically says state legislatures are responsible for setting the times, places and manner of election for senators and representatives but congress may make or alter such regulations. so it allows states to set the procedures that will be used to run federal elections. but it also empowers congress to place its own restrictions, its own alterations are what the states will do. it isn't that clause spec

senate constitution gives authority to both the legislature and u.s. congress. elections cause and i'll try and recited to the rest of my ability to the top of my head but it basically says state legislatures are responsible for setting time, place and manner of elections for senators and representatives the congress may make or alter such regulations. it allows states to set procedures that will be used to run federal elections but also empowersti congress to place its own restriction and alterations and what states will do so the provision that allows congress to make or alter regulations that empower them to pass legislation to prohibit gerrymandering but only for elections to the u.s. house. the authority to tell state how to run their own state election. >> i think the reason district in florida and jacksonville tell a competing story what's best for which party. complaining about bipartisan gerrymandering folks supporting it ensuring subservience for the next ten years. the democrats in the state housg with the opposite way, kicked and screamed and protest

states are grappling with population shifts after the 2020 census and that means legislatures are in the throes of redrawing election maps. troops on both sides of god have called foul and are taking their cases to the court. judges have thrown out republican drawn redistricting maps and ohio, north carolina and pennsylvania. and democratic drawn maps in new york and maryland. republicans have called democrat strategy sue until it is blue. democrats of cold republican efforts undemocratic, radically motivated gerrymandering that intends to suppress the votes of minorities and young people. our guest today have been at the center of this battle for voting rights for years. as attorney general and the obama administration, eric holder plays voting rights of the top of his agenda and was an outspoken critic of voter id laws. now he chose a national democratic redistricting committee and with bustling other sam koppelman the former director of circuit speechwriting on the biden-harris campaign, has written "our unfinished march: the violent past and imperiled future of the vote-a history

-- and that legislature took no action.are hammering mandela barnes on defund the police. there were ads over and over by ron johnson's campaign saying mandela barnes once to defund the police. that is not true. they twisted his words. i think the idea they're trying to make the election as the first black senator in wisconsin see like something is dangerous and scary and will lead to more crime. they are running very racist campaign against mandela barnes by ron johnson. i think it is hurting and della barnes and he is difficult time to become a u.s. senator try to counteract these attacks. but it is very close state. i am looking out whether tony evers, democratic governor, will get reelected, whether republicans will get super majority to the legislature or not. there is a lot of races that are important. i think it is a microcosm of the country at large where these state races have the tremendous importance affecting not just a politics, but national politics as well. amy: ari berman, thank you for being with us, senior

to do, the republicans in the florida legislature were intending do. it's a pretty bad gerrymander. didn't go far enough. and so he said i would veto that which the republican legislature was going to do as not going for it. i'm going to veto. and they caved in and passed that which he proposed. judge has now said that given the situation in florida there's an amendment to the florida constitution requires redistricting to be done on a nonpartisan basis. a judge said that what the governor proposed or the legislature put into effect is, in fact, inappropriate. it has a particularly negative impact on african-american voters in the, i guess, the northern part of florida. and it is something we've seen republicans do in the present day. i mean, sam can talk, you know, the we describe in the book in north carolina, but it is typical of the problem that we have to call out the typical of the problem that we have to confront. you know too many are afraid of the people they say they want to represent you know, they want to pick their own voters as opposed to

the state legislature, he proposed his own map and. the result of that map is that in florida, a state, that is pretty close to 5050 democrats. and republicans. it's almost guaranteed that republicans will win 20 of the 28 florida seats in the house of representatives in. the november elections. so to kind of give an illustration of how how gerrymandering works in practice, maybe it's best to think of a of a hypothetical. i'm a college professor. i love thinking in an hypothetical. and it also kind of removes some of the complicating factors and some the messiness that you already that you always get with with real world examples. so, um, so let's imagine hypothetical completely made up mid-size american city, let's call it jacksonville san sachs and bill has a city government which is made up of an mayor. the mayor gets elected the voters of the city as a whole, and it has a three member city council who are elected from district. and those districts have to have equal populations to to one another. that's also keep things simple hypo

he has to work with the legislature. will work with the legislature to put a budget together that will work for californians? >> would you allow abortion funding in a budget you've signed? >> if that's what it takes to get the deal done, i will sign a budget that i worked out with the legislature. >> with respect to you are not pro-life. you are pro-government mandated birth. if you are pro-life, you would support these efforts to provide support for childcare and preschool and prenatal programs. you have consistently opposed these programs. we believe in reproductive freedom. we believe in reproductive care . california's values are well- established. we want to codify them under prop one in the constitution. i was proud to support and promote a budget of $200 million to reduce co-pays and access to reproductive care. and we are not embarrassed and we don't apologize for having the backs of women and girls all across this country that are fleeing persecution and the kind of extreme policies that you are promoting. and l

because you started in the state legislature.the lessons i want the audience to derive from this tonight's, the way you get a strong statewide candidate like tim ryan winning in ohio's, you start by paying attention to those state legislature races, those races down the ballot, that the tim ryan's start their careers on. tell us what do you think it means to your campaign, as you stand up there with j. d. vance, who has never run for office before, that you have that experience, that you are in that experience, beginning in a state legislature. >> i remember the black hair that used to have lawrence. those pictures were bringing me back to those days. but you don't want to go to a heart surgeon who has never performed heart surgery. you don't want a teacher teaching your kid who does not have any experience. and i think we need to appreciate some level of statecraft where you can help bring people together, and do you realize that the bomb throwing, the extremism, sometimes on both sides, is something that just does not get it do

also my time in the state legislature. i made decisions in my life i think a lot of people first heard my name during covid. but it is important for them so that was not my firstou rodeo that's not the first challenge i went there. i did have a life before that. and served in congress. some of those experiences along the way it would give people a little better understanding about how i make my decisions when it comes to the public office i hold today as weber. >> lessons from the w heartland opens i think my favorite story of yours and they pay me too do this i have heard it. i bet a lotut of people at least outside of south dakota have noo heard the story. i want to go to your words let's how often you talk about this in terms of how it shaped. number one is entitled the tapes pretty start theook like this, i do not knowhy i am doing this, he said are the cockles of the tape recorder. i guess iws will go check the cs click it. the tape stops, that was the end. i could not believe what i just heard. what i had just found.

we are considering the independent state legislature. the idea that over -- supreme court can overrule legislature with regards to federal elections, allegedly based in the constitution. isl is quite like another -- this seems to operate a devastating blow. imagine that you're a state legislature that decides who gets to choose who the electors go to end the presidential election regardless of the outcome of a popular state vote. the state supreme court said that doesn't make any sense we have a popular election, the people of that state decided that the president was donald trump. and now we have a democratic state that legislature is that we can't stomach that. and under this theory the court, headed in the direction it seems to be going that would be the case. the electors would go for the other candidate that wasn't donald trump and the state supreme court would have no role in it. that is a false scenario for a very simple reason which is it has to do with the election rules in place at the time of voting. counting the vote and dele

a republican legislature is standing in the way. with a second term and a new legislature, i'm hopefully we can get it done. >> if you are elected, what is your plan for the retirement tax? ms. dixon: your exact question, that actually did go to the governor's desk, and that was another of her line item vetoes. she had the opportunity to reduce that. she did stand on the debate stage in 2018 and said that one of her top priorities was to eliminate the retirement tax, but as you noted, that would be for public pensions, not all retirees, so i do want you to be assured that i feel it is very important that we make sure that money goes back into the pockets of all retirees in the state of michigan, especially as we head into a recession. we have already seen massive inflation because of the biden-whitmer policies. the recession is right at our doorstep, and i want to make sure we get as much money back to our retirees as possible. >> thank you. governor, i will remind you that in your second term, you very well could have a gop legisla

having a strong work ethic, we don't complain about things, we fix things, my time in the state legislature, how i made big decisions in my life and people first heard my name during covid but it is important for them to know that wasn't my first challenge i went through. i had a life before that and served in congress and some of those experiences would give people a better understanding how i make my decisions when it comes to this public office. >> not my first rodeo:lessons from the heartland opens with my favorite story of yours, i have heard it but i bet you a lot of people have not outside south dakota have not heard the story and i want to go to your words and i thought it was fitting given how often you talk about how it happened, and i don't know why i adog this, you said over the cackles of the tape recorder. i guess i will go check cows. the tape spp, that was the end. i couldn't believe what i just heard, what i had just found, what i held in my hands and what a gift it was, i knew everything would be okay, was going to be okay, we were going to get through this. talk about thi

he has to work with the legislature. will work with the legislature to put a budget together that will work for californians? >> would you allow abortion funding in a budget you've signed? >> if that's what it takes to get the deal done, i will sign a budget that i worked out with the legislature. >> with respect to you are not pro-life. you are pro-government mandated birth. if you are pro-life, you would support these efforts to provide support for childcare and preschool and prenatal programs. you have consistently opposed these programs. we believe in reproductive freedom. believe in reproductive care . california's values are well- established. we want to codify th under prop one in the constitution. i was proud to support and promote a budget of $200 million to reduce co-pays and access to reproductive care. and we are not embarrassed and we don't apologize for having the backs of women and girls all across this country that are fleeing persecution and the kind of extreme policies that you are promoting. and let me

so, they had a one house legislature. instead of a governor, they created an executive council, a kind of president, really. people that the house representatives would appoint to advise that person, that person is to execute the will of the legislature. it's super hyper powers itself. the legislature appointed judges, appointed people to office, election of some of these figures, some judicial figures as well. if an elected by the people, the business is being conducted by the legislature. the other interesting thing that the constitution did is that it created a lot of accountability. this is the most people accountable, accountable to the people government created in this period. elections were to be annual. every year, you'd have a chance to throw the bum out and elect somebody knew. the idea behind annual elections also was that more people would end up serving me. this also informed a desire for term limits. they didn't want an entrenched elite, they don't want the same people in power. so people could only serve fo

we fixed it is also my time in a state legislature, how he made the decision in my life at a think a lot of people first of my name during covid, but it's important for them to note that wasn't my first radio, that wasn't my first challenge i went through. i did have a life before that and serve in congress, and some of those experiences along the way i think we'll give people a little better understanding about how i make my decisions when it comes to this public office allan holt today as a. >> host: "not my first rodeo: lessons from the heartland" opens with i think my favorite story of yours, because a payment do this, i've heard it but i bet you a lot of people have not at least outside out of south dakota have not heard the story. i want to go to your words and its chapter one and i thought it was sitting, just given how often you talk about this in terms of how it shaped you. chapter one is titled the tapes, and you start the book like this. i don't know why i'm doing this. he said over the cackles of the ta rorder. i guess i'll go check house click, the tape stopped. that was

so he said i would veto that which the republican legislature is going to do. i want to veto that and they came in and passed that which he proposed. a judge has now said given the situation in florida there is an amendment to the constitution that requires the redistricting to be done on a nonpartisan basis. it is in fact inappropriate as a particular negative impact i guess on the northern part of florida it is something we've seen republicans do in the present day. it's typical of the problem that we have to call out and confront. too many republicans are afraid of the people they say they want to represent. they want to pick their own voters as opposed to letting citizens choosewh their representatives and maybe you can talk about that in north carolina. >> we read about this student who was at the college of northh carolina they split the university and she explained to her classmates what they were doing was silencingr thei voices. people came together and protestedrn with the help of the attorney general's organization. it was a moment where the folks th

. >> this cases referred to as the independent legislature theoryot or other slightly shadowy terms.ut ultimately this is a case that is about the text of the constitution and then how to deal with those elections to put those time place or manner and where they settled in the text of the constitution to give that authority to the state legislature and it is specific but it was a strong argument and that comes up with the districting lines assuming theel election clause as well as the polls being open so it's clear from the text the state legislature sets back where the state courts are in a position to second-guess that applying state constitutional law but the supreme court in a case with a republican legislature arizona independent districting commission from across the same texan basically said it's okay for arizona to give the redistricting authority away from the state legislature and give it to an independent commission. it was a five / four decision in the chief justice was in dissent along with justice scalia, thomas and alito. and then the redistricting case with the that h

well that situation, you know, i was brand new to the legislature, you know wanted to to do something impactful. we had just had a ballot initiative. that would have completely banned abortions in the state. it had gone to the public and it had failed and i wanted to immediately bring another bill forward that that would have the debate in the legislature. i remember having a meeting with those who cared about this issue and just being shocked that the state's president of right to life was against bringing a bill and it was a man from my own district my other representative, but he also was my husband's cousin so that tells you how small south dakota is, but i was just so surprised by it that i you know went and immediately after the meeting emailed people back home and said they needed to call him and talk to him and then that made it. into the public news stories and i just realized immediately how bad i sounded like, i know it all that. i didn't even go to him and really discuss it with him instead. i decided to start emailing people back home who didn't have a context of what was

they are appointed by the legislature and confirmed, so they work at the behest of the legislature.e auditor role is different than controller. the controller is duly elected, but i think that is what distinguishes me. i can look at an audit that i also have the legislative background so i can unrstand the legislative process and close the gap. that is where i believe the problem lies. the problem was identified that sometimes solutions are eight legislative fix. >> quickly, how are we going to know that you have done a good job as controller? how would you grade yourself? >> i think if the unclaimed liability excuse me, if the unclaimed property program in the california controller's office is up and operational, we've passed some legislation and made it robust, that is an indicator. another indicator of success would be the amount of audits, if we have found any abuse or fraud i would like to ma it easy to report. >> are going to have to leave it right there. malia cohen, thank you so much for coming in. >> thank you for having me. >> now the other candidate for state comptroller.