was this in official hearing of the state legislature? >> it was not. >> why was it not a real official hearing of the legislature? >> a legislator can hold a group meeting, he can call it a hearing, but when they ask me to have an official hearing, we established protocols, public notice, et cetera. it's typically held at the capitol, but it doesn't need to be. we can authorize a hearing off campus. i have been asked on several occasions to allow a hearing and denied it, but said you are free to hold any meeting you want to the person who asked, which he ultimately did. he was a little frustrated, but he ultimately did. >> this meeting was the same day, i believe, that the governor of arizona certified biden as the winner of the presidential election in arizona. did you meet with mr. giuliani and his associates while they were in phoenix sometime after that reported legislative hearing at the hotel? >> yes, i did, sir. >> and at that meeting, did mr. giuliani raise any specific allegations of election fraud again? >> his initial comments

it doesn't say the legislature will review by the courts, it just says legislature.st: true, but most states like congress on federal legislature have provisions for vetoes, and congress would have to override the veto for something to become law. most people say that even though that clause definitely says legislature, most people think legislature in that context could allow for governors to have the right to veto state laws if the state constitution establishes the general practice that you can't have a law in north carolina unless the governor signs it or there is an override of the governor's veto. the question is what does the word legislature mean? most people would say it implicitly means the ordinary practice having a legislature is and if the ordinary acts of having a legislature governors have the right to veto, that is ok. but the ordinary practice of having a legislature is assigning judicial review that courts get to enforce constitutional right and constitutional rules so legislatures can violate them. the word legislature then carries with it the impl

it doesn't say the legislature will review by the courts, it just says legislature.uest: true, but most states like congress on federal legislature have provisions for vetoes, and congress would have to override the veto for something to become law. most people say that even though that clause definitely says legislature, most people think legislature in that context could allow for governors to have the right to veto state laws if the state constitution establishes the general practice that you can't have a law in north carolina unless the governor signs it or there is an override of the governor's veto. the question is what does the word legislature mean? most people would say it implicitly means the ordinary practice having a legislature is and if the ordinary acts of having a legislature governors have the right to veto, that is ok. but the ordinary practice of having a legislature is assigning judicial review that courts get to enforce constitutional right and constitutional rules so legislatures can violate them. the word legislature then carries with it the im

she passed that bill in the legislature. seeing everyone have a potential ally and never burning a bridge unnecessarily. [applause] >> for me, a really good a cool skill in the building, though i am not sure how healthy it is has been compartmentalization. you have to fight tooth and nail with somebody on one bill and turn around and work with them on the very next bill on the floor. being able to put the last fight inside and it be allies for someone in the next moment is chemical for working in that type of environment. in this state you build relationships, friendships with people, you disagree with ferociously and build a narrative and momentum are die . i did that right relationships and very carefully talking to all of my republican colleagues about what the bill dead and why it made sense. the other side of that, when you get treated like a speedbump, if i am getting treated like a speedbump, when we are doing an abortion bill or critical race theory bill, or pregnant miscarry, i'm going to be a speedbump. if you're g

normally, state legislatures can't do things that violate their state constitution. islt theory says they do have the power to do that and it comes to regulating federal elections. the reason for that has to do with the language and two classes of the constitutiothat gives state legislatures the responsibility and the power to regulate federal elections. but nothing in the federal constitution suggests they get to do that free of the ordinary limitations of state constitutions. amy: slain this in practical terms -- explain this in practical terms. are we talking about federal elections and state elections, have to deal with them separately in each state? how do people vote? >> it is a great question and one of the big problems with the islt. what it suggests is a state legislature can has a single law and that if a state court finds that some aspect or all of that state to be unconstitutial under the state constitution, it still has to apply to federal elections. so you might find ourselves -- a state might find itself with two registration systems or two different m

what do you make of this independent state legislature theory? judge griffith: i am not an expert in this. i try to learn as much as i can about it. i worry about this. it is not something i know a great deal about right now. i have a briefing binder of materials i plan on studying very carefully over the next weeks so that i can be up to speed. my instincts are with you. this is something that worries me a great deal. i need to study more about it. >> we look forward to having you on again in the future. thank you so much for talking with us. we really appreciate it. judge griffith: thank you. >> and thank you for watching washington post live.

what do you make of this independent state legislature theory? judge griffith: i am not an expert in this. i try to learn as much as i can about it. i worry about this. it is not something i know a great deal about right now. i have a briefing binder of materials i plan on studying very carefully over the next weeks so that i can be up to speed. my instincts are with you. this is something that worries me a great deal. i need to study more about it. >> we look forward to having you on again in the future. thank you so much for talking with us. we really appreciate it. judge griffith: thank you. >> and thank you for watching washington post live. >> c-span's "washington journal," every day taking your calls live on the air on the news of the day and discussing policy issues that impact you.c, ellis mccourt on how states are responding to the supreme court ruling that struck down new york's continuous carry gun law. paul peterson talks about his podcast and the learning lost during the covid 19 pandemic. watch "washington journal" live on c-span or

the state legislatures which were large in size quadruple in some cases but the colonial legislatures were very small sometimes 30 and 40 people now they have two or 300 and they're passing all kinds of legislation there annually elected and you have a multiplication in the legislatures and the turnover rate is close to 60%, new people coming in every year and they have their interest to promote the result is an ability of the legislation and am so confused and judges don't know what is the law and to get it straight the next year there's a whole set of laws you ultimately have the injustice of the law mainly his regular paper money and other beneficial walls of predators. if this is complicated yet to read the book and explain why the dominant people are frightened by inflation and the depreciation of money because they are essentially bankers there's almost no banks the bank of north america created in pennsylvania but most of the states have no banks there lending money to their neighbors that's political call comes back as paper which says i promise to pay in gold and silver but i

if you look at what's happening probably right now in state legislatures around the country there is unleased momentum to push this further at the state level for sure. and that the federal level, the minority leader mitch mcconnell says if roe v. wade is overturned, the national abortion ban would be on the table. that's the conversation it's happening right now. leigh ann: yeah, i know you said there are conversations about this happening but do you think the democrats should put republicans on the record on some of these issues? just remind our audience, after a couple of months ago, after the leak support -- supreme court decision it -- after the decision was lee, the senate voted on codifying roe v. wade and that failed. on these other issues like contraception andivf, could you put republicans on the record on this before the midterms? sen. smith: i can see some value in putting republicans on the record. my view was that the republicans are already on the record when it comes to the rights to protecting the fundamental of people to decide about their own bodies. they are on th

i think what we are seeing with the present action and the state legislatures dramatizes the significant are path are in the war of the the abortion cases -- the path that only to overturn roe v. wade in just a moment want to show what president biden said the executive order. he called the court decision extreme and totally. what does that say to you about where the nation is and how it feels about the court's decision in the hands of nature that the courtha has had and the luxury f having for so many years in terms of political debate. >> it illustrates two things that are critical. one is hard to imagine an issue in public life that is more contentious and where the stakes are higher than trying to balance the interest between a woman's. autonomy and life. these are big issues which people feel strongly about and understandably so and that debate is vigorous. the second thing it illustrates is the approach that the court took your two claim that abortion is a constitutional right demonstrates another big issue. how does the court what is protected by the constitution and what is not?

if they're unconstitutional, state courts can say sorry state legislatures, can't do it that way. it's unconstitutional. this case could wind up in a scenario where state legislatures can do whatever they want, constitutional or not, and the state courts have no say. they can't even review it. if you think about some of the things we've been learning that donald trump and others were trying to pressure state legislatures and state officials to do in 2020, this will make it easier for them to get away with that in 2024. >> and when you say get away with, i mean, what we're talking about here is a super partisan, hyperpartisan state legislature in whichever battleground state, we don't really believe these election results that have come in, we're going to throw those out, and we're going to send our own electors to the capitol for january 6th in 2025, that potentially could happen. >> exactly. this would make it easier. hopefully we will have faithful public officials like the republican rusty bowers who we saw testify from arizona who refused to go along with that kind of nonsense

less than 20 as far as the legislature is concerned. how does this effort take place? what are you going to do? >> the first thing i would say is that this is an organizing effort that has to happen in every state. not only in states where abortion has been banned or severely curtailed. if i could, let me give you an example. here in minnesota, we have statewide elections happening, a governor, and attorney general. abortion is protected by minnesota supreme court decision. it matters who points justices to the minnesota supreme court, that write could go away a plea do not have people at the leadership levels of the minnesota government. including the governor who are ready to protect those rights. it is going to be an issue here, in minnesota, was the difference between the republican and democratic governor could not be more clear. and so, it will be an organizing issue. just as it will be in other states where the politics are flipped. what we have to do is to go out and organize, raise money, have conversations with people, i just want to say there have been a lot

well that situation, you know, i was brand new to the legislature, you know wanted to to do something impactful. we had just had a ballot initiative. that would have completely banned abortions in the state. it had gone to the public and it had failed and i wanted to immediately bring another bill forward that that would have the debate in the legislature. i remember having a meeting with those who cared about this issue and just being shocked that the state's president of right to life was against bringing a bill and it was a man from my own district my other representative, but he also was my husband's cousin so that tells you how small south dakota is, but i was just so surprised by it that i you know went and immediately after the meeting emailed people back home and said they needed to call him and talk to him and then that made it. into the public news stories and i just realized immediately how bad i sounded like, i know it all that. i didn't even go to him and really discuss it with him instead. i decided to start emailing people back home who didn't have a context of what was

so, i was once the youngest member of the texas legislature. this is going to be the story i tell when i'm 80 years old. but recently, we had a special election down in south texas, and a new democratic member of the electorate got elected, and she is three months younger than i am. three weeks younger than i am? so, she's vibrant and youthful where i am old and decrepit. anyway, i have the honor of serving williams county just north of here, in the austin suburbs. before i was a politician, i was a middle school teacher, so i taught six grade language arts on the west side of san antonio, which is a beautiful, historic mexican american neighborhood, and one of the poorest zip codes in the state of texas. so, my students radicalized me, and they are the reason i ran for office. they are the reason i do the work that i do, so, happy to be here for y'all. [applause] >> [inaudible] a look? there it is. i was once the second youngest member of the texas legislature, which is why i had to make sure that representative talarcio occupies his appropria

i think what we are seeing and in the ongoing debate in congress, the state legislatures, it dramatizes the significance of the decision, and gives us two very different competing views of of what one does with a constitutional right. >> i want to talk with you about abortion cases and the debate of the case and the decisions, not only to overturn roe v. wade, but i want to share with you something that president biden said at the signing ceremony for the an executive order. he called the court decision terrible, extreme, and totally wrongheaded. what does that say to you about where the nation is at, and how it feels about the court decision, and the hands-on nature that the court has had, the luxury of having it so many years in terms of the political debates. judge griffith: again, this illustrates two things that are critical. one, it is hard to imagine an issue in public life that is more contentious when stakes are higher than trying to balance a interest between a woman's autonomy and prenatal life. these are big issues about which people strongly, understandably so, and a very i

i think what we are seeing and in the ongoing debate in congress, the state legislatures, it dramatizeshe significance of the decision, and gives us two very different competing views of of what one does with a constitutional right . >> i want to talk with you about abortion cases and the debate of the case and the decisions, not only to overturn roe v. wade, but i want to share with you something that president biden said at a signing ceremony. an executive order. he called the court decision terrible, extreme, and totally wrongheaded. what does that say to you about where the nation is at, and how it feels about the court decision, and the hands-on nature that the court has had, the luxury of having it so many years in terms of the political debates. >> again, this illustrates two things that are critical. one, it is hard to imagine an issue in public life that is more contentious when stakes are higher than trying to balance a interest between a woman's autonomy and prenatal life. these are big issues about which people strongly, understandably so, and a very important debate is vigo

just as fast as democratic run legislatures. and these democratic run legislatures have done in every state everything they can have to do to protect roe v. wade. if you are frustrated with democrats in congress right now, you should be happy with democrats in the state legislatures, because literally in every state where the democrats -- we have done something to protect abortion rights across the country. my hope is that we can if we can get two additional u.s. senators, we will see this happen federally, but right now we are in the two state america the charles described. in states like missouri, there have been targeted regulations of abortion laws that have limited abortion abortion access. missouri only had one single clinic before now missouri as zero clinics active because of their trigger law and priebus and ban. so unless this is changed immediately we have to go into this in the state. again, i hope is a democrat we went to more states seats in the unit in the senate. but so many legislators are acting because there i

they are appointed by the state legislature. we have staggered elections so what you're seeing is actual mechanisms in the new constitution to promote deliberation . to make consent not simply self-determination, not simply a mirror of the people but as madison put it in federalist 10 to refine and enlarge the public view. that is to do the best good on behalf of the people and that meant you had to create space and time for consent to work that out.i would say that yes, she's rebellion had something clearly to do with the constitutional convention ultimately in 1787 but it's interesting you bring up washington. washington did have an idea of the united states as a country. that wasn't a gleam in his eye long before it was in most american's eyes. and i would say that the need professor lawson brought this up. the need for a stronger central government, or a national government, that was clear that washington would have nothing to do with the convention if he didn't think there was a reasonable chance for the central government

the buck stop with the legislatures, they say. if the supreme court decides this case in the republicans' favor next term, state courts would no longer be a check on state lawmakers when it comes to our nation's elections, and that is something to digest for a moment. because after what we saw happen in the 2020 election, with states trying to send fake electors to congress, this could lead to catastrophic consequences for our democracy. or at least extreme partisan gerrymandering across the country the next time they get the chance this. case is about north carolina. but if the conservative justices rule in favor of the republicans it could have an outsized impact because republicans control both houses of state legislatures. in 30 states. what is the future of this conservative court look like? what can we expect next term? i've got the person to ask. joining us is the senior editor and legal correspondent for slate.com. dalia, good to see you. thanks for making time for us tonight. what was your reaction when you learned that t

home state from punishment for providing care to women from states where state legislatures have made abortions illegal. have made abortions illegal. have made abortion illegal. i was proud to work with senator cortez mascolp to help draft the freedom to travel for healthcare act. it will protect women's rights to cross state lines and seek medical services and protect providers in states that they are traveling to. s there is much more to stand against this assault on the constitutional rights and i yieldna the floor. >> mr. president, while our colleagues are joining us to speak on behalf of the language, i wanted to thank the senator for her legislation and just emphasize how important this is to people all through the united states including my state that happens to be a border state but even in seattle providers are worried about a chilling effect so i'm wondering if the senator from nevada while our colleagues have been talking about how this impacts individuals, people seeking healthcare in other states, what is happening now with the chilling affect to providers and their anxi

-- the statutes of what these gerrymandered legislatures -- have put in place.hat has been attacked. gun safety laws, that have been ruled out -- overruled by the united states supreme court. passed originally in states that two things inconsistent, again, with the desires of the american people. and so you've got to make people understand that this isn't something that is ethereal, that this is something that affects their lives on the day-to-day basis. everything from the right to privacy, to the safety of their communities, criminal justice reform, climate, all of these things are directly connected. and if you can do, that you can get the american people involved. but this has to be a multifaceted movement, you have to get people engaged, focused, we also have to do things legislatively. and we have to use great lawyers like mark to bring cases in both federal and state courts. we have got to win in a whole variety of ways in order to save this democracy of ours. >> marc e. elias, it's almost midnight, so how about carrying on a transition tradition for us a

or i would be criminalized, based on with the legislature and the governor in south dakota has said. >> how are the states -- how is the democratic party going to organize in half of the states around the country? i think the democrats control less than half of the states around the country. i think it's less than 20. how does this effort take place? what are you going to do? >> the first thing that i would say is that this is an organizing effort that needs to happen in every state. not only in states where abortion has been banned, or severely curtailed. and if i could, i'll give you an example of that. here in minnesota, where we have statewide elections happening, abortion is protected by a minnesota supreme court decision. but it matters who appoint justices to the minnesota supreme court. that write could go away. if we don't have people at leadership levels in the minnesota government, including the governor, who are ready to protect those rights. it's going to be an issue here in minnesota where the difference between republican and democratic governors, the candidates, could

there were two sponsors in the legislature. and they decided that they would put a bill forward in the spring of 1930. what happened in the intervening time the great depression started? and his whole term was and his agenda turned upside down at the end of 1929. whole agenda turned upside down and this issue of old age security became very important even more so because who was laid off first older people who were older people 50 and older, okay. imagine that so you had all these people who had no social security. if they couldn't get their children to help them and live with their families they went as he said in that campaign speech to the county poor house. so they held hearings. he got letters there was a group. an advocacy group like aarp only not named that that encouraged letters. i am 80 years of age with no means of support. my son's fought in france during the world war and to our debt as a result. i'm now visiting my other son in louisiana and would like to return home soon. please advise me if such a law has been e

this fringe theory that republicans are promoting called the independent state legislature theory. north carolina, where we were successful in striking down the map that the republican legislature had drawn, which was an extreme partisan gerrymander. the state court they are said that the state constitution prevented partisan gerrymandering. and the republicans brought this case to the supreme court on the theory that the state courts are not allowed to apply their state constitutions when looking at maps. if this was adopted, this could have dramatic impacts, not just in the area of gerrymandering but in voting rights generally. there is no theory more closely aligned with the big lie and donald trump than the independent state legislature theory. it is the theory of john eastman was peddling in the days leading up to january 6th. >> you are scaring me, all three of you, scaring us. this is really important information that we need to understand more and we need to care about more. you are all staying with us, we are going to be back in just a few. and when we come back, stay repu

so 2010 a big republican year, they flipped a bunch of state legislatures and that gave them controlr the redistricting. that enabled them to institute some really brutal make it almost impossible for democrats to win back the control thecr state legislature even when they have majorityat support. and then you see how the whole series of events comes from that focus what's happening low toen the ground. and they can leverage that intop state power and national power. and democrats have to -- their democrats to do this and will scream until their voices are hoarse about how important it is for some state legislatures. but the whole party has not been as strategic about it as the :republican party has. >> from washington, pennsylvania republican line this is mary, hi. >> caller: hi. i just want to simply say, i believe mr. walden is giving a pep talk to democrats. and that is all i have to say. >> that is mary from pennsylvania. paul let me follow up when your questions about the president's age particular as he approaches another electoral campaign what does to your mind? >> it's a le

we as a legislature should not be making that decision for women.lize that some people may feel that it does not go far enough, in my opinion. we are already too far with what we currently have on the books in the state of indiana. anything else, not considering the fact that, you know, we have a little 10-year-old girl who came to the state of indiana because she couldn't get an abortion in her state. there are so many factors that come into play when a woman is thinking about having an abortion, and we can't just provide a blanket and say it's a complete outlaw of abortion. and so i think it's very shortsighted for anyone to think that. >> yeah, you mentioned that 10-year-old who had to travel from ohio where the six week ban on getting an abortion, and she was six weeks and three days along. she was a 10-year-old who was raped. according to this law, she would have to provide the abortion provider with an affidavit attesting to the rape that created that pregnancy. let me ask you about one thing. we're hearing from republicans in the state, there

they just talked about on the independent state legislature. to be a decision that has the potential to give donald trump and his forces the ability to steal the next election and we need a plan to directly confront the supreme court's path. >> you dissents in dobbs and overturning abortion and then in the epa case yesterday, and it's almost like the three liberal justices are blinking in morse code. i mean, what do you -- what is the message that -- and you look at mitch mcconnell's norm busting, i mean, it's the nicest way to describe what he did to merrick garland. how do you wake democrats up to the fact that any good faith approach to the court will only be met with real political hardball on the right? >> nico is a professor at harvard law school and i think he's articulated the path forward as well as anybody out there. he's said, we're not going to out-litigate our way out of in problem. it is not going to come from, you know, more legally honed arguments made at the supreme court and better amicus briefs being filed. the progressive le

mastriano as governor, mastriano will push the state legislature to ban abortion with no exceptions for rape or incest. in arizona, republican front runner, carry, lake has called for the carbon coffee for the texas stela abortion ban which doesn't include exceptions for rape or incest. in michigan, republicans have called it for all out republican abortion bans, and one of them has even said that we must inspire women who get raped to give birth because, quote, god put them in this moment. that is as disgusting as it is wrong. and these are just a few examples of horrifying stances that republican candidates have taken in swing state races. and let's be clear, if you don't think that all of this could end and a gop out for to ban abortion nationwide, you haven't been paying any attention. this is the state of america, as we head into the july 4th holiday. this is who we are. 246 years since the declaration of impotent pettus was signed, one part actively working to undermine half of the populations independents to make their own health care decisions. this time of year, we talk about l

in texas, legislatures are working on a bill to criminalize businesses that provide resources simply to help their workers obtain abortion services in other states. these proposals don't just hurt those in need of care. they're also creating an uncertain environment for documents. three clinics in states like minnesota we protected rights are protected. two major states in the u.s., that is that. illinois, minnesota spoke on the phone theh head of the red river clinic at a fogger, the conference had to resort to help fundey a page to get the money e needs to look for clinic across the river to minnesota, to a safe place. planned parenthood of more i met with only ay week ago about the services of the work they are doing right now. in montana, clients of r8 become upper residency residency program at sycamore supposedly are afraid it mightsu be pursued by out-of-state. prosecutors. we should never settle for situation when the committee sortre of different rights that women emissary. or equipment in illinois than women in texas. but with so many extreme republicans raising to stay cap

the legislature is charged with making policies. that is it passes the laws. the executive is responsible for carrying out policies. and the judiciary is charged with reviewing and judging policies. but while each of these branches of government has its own clearly defined duties they all work together as a team through a system of checks and balances. here are some examples of what i mean. the president appoints justices to the supreme court executive balances judicial. congress determines the size of the supreme court legislative balances judicial the president has veto power over the bill sent to him by congress executive checks legislative. the president can propose laws. he thinks need to be passed executive balances legislative. the supreme court has power to declare unconstitutional any law passed by congress judicial checks legislative. congress must approve many of the appointments made by the president legislative checks executive. congress appropriates money for the executive departments legislative balances executive that's the way the constitution