is achievable from the get-go and plexible enough to -- flexible enough that allow people like len peertz get their arms around it. >> and i appreciate the flexibility and the cooperation you've exhibited with kentucky and other states. i appreciate that very much. i yield back. >> and now the gentleman from w west virginia. mr. mckinney. >> thank you for appearing before usch and let me start with a question, perhaps. is the epa -- has the epa ever made a mistake? >> i'm quite sure. >> do you think any of those mistakes have led to a job loss? >> i can't answer that question. we certainly do our best not to make mistakes in the first place and in the day that we see -- shows that job loss is not a consequence of environmental rules. >> i want to make sure that you understand and the public understands. i don't think there -- i don't think there is a will in congress to do away with the epa. >> that is good. >> you hear that a lot. >> thank you. >> i don't think there is the will to do that. i think that many of us here recognize that the epa has helped lead the way for filter and clean w