leon kass and pellegrino. they're, as you said, they felt that neurological standards were valid. it's a hundred-page report, and i'm sure you know it well although you must have finished the book before -- that wasn't -- >> guest: what year is this? >> host: 2008. >> guest: yes. >> host: the president's council. >> guest: no, i read that. now, in that, if you read that carefully, they suggest that the persistent vegetative state person could be harvested. >> host: the way i read it was they were trying to almost adjudicate between people who thought the threshold was too high and those that thought it was too low, those who thought maybe somebody like an individual, you know, that's very debatable, there's no question about that, that that might be appropriate candidates and others who felt, in fact, that we might even return to the cardiovascular standard. so they really had to adjudicate a lot of -- and be most of the people on that commission were not, were bioethicists and folks not directly involved with transplantation which is a little different from -- >> host: but they d