but for the adults, you can understand in hearing from leon lucas how terrible she feels that she was not able to do more, but she shouldn't feel terrible because everyone that knows anything about what happened there knows just how hard she tried. and john hayes tried to save these girls. >> mark white. you know, in any case, like this, i remember the valdo calocane case, the triple killing in my home city of nottingham, the murderer of brianna ghey. you know, the victim impact statements are so, so raw. i mean, those vignettes and everybody can relate to. we used to cook for three and now we cook for two. i mean, you know, these are the things where, you know, life is forever changed by this psychopath, this utter psychopath who clearly premeditated this. this was clearly a plan. there's clearly no sense of regret to actually say, i'm glad these children are dead. mark white you've been covering many, many cases through your illustrious and long career. do you recall coming face to face with such unimaginable evil as axel rudakubana? >> i've seen lots of evil people that have put be