after the arrests, cia director leon panetta reportedly approached his russian counterpart with the swap proposal. georgetown university professor charles kupchan said today he thinks ultimately the deal was good for the u.s.-russia relationship. >> i think that we have to proceed with eyes wide open. russia may go back to being an aggressor state but at this point the trend lines are still positive ones. the stakes are so high that i think the obama administration is doing the right thing by trying to pov as quickly as possible to contain the spy scandal and prevent it from getting in the way of improving cooperation between the u.s. and russia. >> woodruff: but kramer had a different perspective on

director leon panetta all but confirmed that when asked. said, he is a terrorist and he will be treated as a terrorist. he is also a u.s. citizen. doesn't give anybody pause in the -- does it give anybody pause in the upper rankssof the obama administration that we are targeting u.s. citizens for murder, especially when, as in the cleric's case, he has not been charged with a crime? >> you through in a lot of words. i have to put my legal at on. i think a lot of those are flatly wrong words. murder and killing are not interchangeable. i think that, without speaking directly in the case of the cleric, it certainly gives me pause. i know it gives leon pause. i'm quite confident in gives president obama, secretary gates -- anyone involved in life-and-death decisions -- it gives them pause in issuing orders and directives to go out and end an individual's life. u.s. citizen or not. these are the greatest of decisions that the president and secretary of defense -- leon panetta -- have to make. this is -- the issue of the u.s. person certainly ad

and lee on panetta -- leon panetta, the c.i.a. director, said as much. we have people doing our operations and doesn't feel comfortable that he has enough control over them and wants to rein that in. but as defense secretary gates said, i can't even get a head count in my own office about how many contractors there are. and that's the other thing we found in the series. that they don't know how much this costs, how many employees, how many different agencies are working on the same thing. which is another problem that we found. is 41 agencies working on following the flow of money to and from terrorist networks. so really they don't have a lot of the basic information that you would want them to have to make smart decisions. so some of the progress, information sharing, has definitely gotten better. relations between the top level of these agencies has definitely gotten better. but i had the sense at the end that the largeness of it has overwhelmed some of those -- some of those good points, some of the progress that's been made. >> one of the things tha

after the arrests, cia director leon panetta reportedly approached his russian counterpart with the swap proposal. georgetown university professor charles kupchan said today he thinks ultimately the deal was good for the u.s.-russia relationship. >> i think that we have to proceed with eyes wide open. russia may go back to being an aggressor state but at this point the trend lines are still positive ones. the stakes are so high that i think the obama administration is doing the right thing by trying to pov as quickly as possible to contain the spy scandal and prevent it from getting in the way of improving cooperation between the u.s. and russia. >> woodruff: but kramer had a different perspective on how all of this affects u.s.-russia relations. >> shipping them off back to russia so closely, less than two weeks after the aests were made and securing the release of four russians in exchange doesn't seem to me to be an equitable deal for the united states. and i think it shows an overeagerness on the part of the administration to return to the tract that they saw unfolding with russia, t

as secretary bob gates and director of the cia leon panetta told us on the record s not always the answerping figures, one jumped out at me that this whole enterprise produces some $50,000 intelligence reports every year and you said many of them are routinely ignored. >> and the reason for that that many of them deal with exactly the same subject. you know, doing the easiest thing is what happens a lot. if you don't push people to do the hardest work. that happens in many different ways. in the ft. hood shooter is a good example of that. the army's largest encounter intelligence organize which is supposed to be looking inside the army for spies or potential jihadists is just 25 miles up the road from walter reid where major hassan, the suspect in that case began to speak very oddly about islam and warning the army that they should let people out who were religious. but that organization wasn't, in fact, looking hard within its own ranks because it's very hard to do. instead they were doing something that the fbi and homeland security was already doing, which was to look at other terroris