anyway, i had met a middle level executive at abc called leonard goldberg.a new york executive moving to los angeles to become the vice president of current programming, a very middle level job, but i thought he was really smart, and i really didn't have some yen for television, particularly. but you know, i was sparky, and i was interested. i knew i couldn't stay at william morris any longer. so he asked me to be his assistant. i said yes. the day that i left william morris and was going to start at abc, they fired the tsar of abc -- the czar of abc programming, and they reached out, and they picked my guy, leonard goldberg, to be head of programming. so i went from this little tiny thing, to moving to new york, to becoming the assistant of the head of programming at abc, and within six months, i was running the program department. david: you're on your way. and eventually you became the president of abc television, is that right? barry: well, the entertainment part. david: entertainment part. and you invented something that was novel at the time called the