lerner has to say. we all want to do our job and get on with the investigation that underlies all of this but i think we are hopefully just as concerned about making sure that this committee upholds the constitution. in particular the fifth amendment right now matter what we think of the citizens earlier activities or statements. i am concerned that this is an unusual proceeding. she was subpoenaed and the attorney made it very clear that she was going to plead the fifth and yet we continue to force her to come before the committee and as mr. connolly said, what for? to pillory her, to make an example of her, to put her in a situation where she might then be forced to waive? in the judicial process and i think mr. connolly you made it clear that is not the usual way of proceeding and intact in this d.c. bar it would be considered an unethical practice when someone in that untenable situation on that so i'm concerned from the outset of what that was about weather was about spectacle or trying to move thi

republicans disagree and said lerner made a two minute statement and did not take questions. >> lois lerner is a poster child for thumbing her nose, a federal bureaucrat thumbing here nose at congress. >> mr. chairman, i have identified nine sprapt specific assertions made by lois lerner on may 22nd. and that was after she asserted her right against privilege. >> at this point the house oversight committee hasn't formally requested that lerner come back to answer questions, at least not yet. >> we will remind everybody, we got to this point because the irs was targeting the conservative groups with tea party and patriot at their names. the democrats are coming to her defense? >> democrats said lerner did what the constitution allows her to do. >> mr. gowdy would have you

lerner was. it is more important through realize that most important that she made voluntary decisions, not just a decision to make an opening statement that made claims and assertions on point, but then to answer additional questions after she invoked her fifth-amendment privilege to answer additional questions. i am not an attorney, even though i serve on judiciary and have this obligation here today. is why we sought counsel and took the time. it is the result of recognizing there is both a legal precedent for this, and many people here have not taken the time for it over the last 37 days, but the important thing is the respect for the constitution is also respect for the fact that if somebody comes and gives testimony, they become subject to cross-examination. and the decision here today is to my did she have testimony, and did she choose to take offense,, and is she subject to that cross-examination? i know everybody here in this room, if accused of a crime or even just being sued a month th

who insist that lerner had every right to do what she did. >> this is first and foremost lois lerner, an american citizen, invoking one of the most sacred privileges enshrined in her bill of rights. fifth amendment right to protect herself. >> republicans say that they still want lois lerner to answer their questions. but so far there have not been an official request for lerner to appear again before the committee. >> molly, thank you. >>> for more on this let's bring in our political panel right now. . >>> we thank you for joining thus afternoon. vote was strictly along party lines. 22 republicans voted in favor and 17 democrats against it. democrat congressman jairy connelly calling the attempts to block in the fifth amendment, an egregious power that tramples the constitution and serves no ballot legislative purpose. what do you say? >> the republicans are not guilty of overreach here at all. it was president obama who said that this administration would be about truth, transparency. lerner should go back before the committee and tell the truth. the truth cuts to the ground will r

lerner could provide answers or bloweds the fifth.f she pleads the fifth they would be able to hold her in contempt. >> a constitutional right to thumb your nose at the government. we'll watch this one, molly, thank you. >> fox weather alert. a dangerous heatwave out west. temperatures soaring to 115 degrees and death valley, california, expected to reach 130 this weekend. with the scorching temperatures a lot of concern for people and their pets. the extreme heat could ground airlines. airline officials will keep a close eye on the weather and as we told you, hotter air affects air density and changes liftoff conditions and they may make the decision to keep the planes on the ground. dom nick is live with us. >> hey, there, harris. it is not just the airline but the amtrak is warning that the increased heat could expand the tracks and risk derailing. and so potential disruption in the west as a result of a incredible temperature. it may be a historic of high temperatures and heatwave that you are seeing in the next 3 or 4 days. we ar

i have for given lois lerner.ficult years and it was difficult on my family. 10 years after i forgave her though, i saw her on television and the stories that i heard were identical to the story that i went through. as little as i wanted to get back on television and as much as i wanted to be in my own little private world right now , the fact is i have an obligation to tell my story because what happened to me when she was the head of theu=k millions and millions of dollars of television commercials, i remember hiding my kids from the tv when it came on. allp salvi is being investigated by the federal elections commission by amounts over a million dollars. it made it soundxd like i was stealing a million dollars or #e÷mething.okx÷ &c @&c it was very, very difficultçó to overcome thati]çó. when she offered $e÷p me to drop the case if i stay out of politics for thew3 rest of my life, that sounded very strange to me.xd it didn't sound like the usual, well, we will negotiate -- if you pay a small finee1r wrong -- no.

deputy at the irs in washington, miss lerner and mr. miller had discussed some sort of plan to roll out the unfolding irs scandal. miss lerner knew about it at least as early at mid 2011 when according to the inspector general's report, when she was briefed on it and essentially said, we have to change these things. >> so they rolled out this phony thing where lois lerner went to the aba meeting and got a woman lawyer, who is essentially her patsy to ask fer a phony question and that phony question was about the targeting. and this is in anticipation of the i.g. report coming out in a few days. and that sort of plot was also, according to miss paz, was hatched by the director of the irs? >> well, we don't know those -- we don't know those specifics. what we do know is that miss lerner and mr. miller were talking about how to roll it out. we -- we don't know that it was going to take place at that moment in that way. but given that the i.g. report benefits to come out, they basically had a choice, you know, try to roll it out in the ulti

information that came out about lois lerner having signed on on. >> paul: lois lerner ran that tax exempt department, she is now on suspension. let's go to z-street and they identify the agent, diane henry who told them she had been instructed to single groups like this out. the time was also strange because it occurred at time when this group was opposing some of the policies of the administration, pursuing the palestinian peace process? >> well, right. what was happening there were stories at the time that a lot of these pro israel groups are supporting west bank settlements and at the same time they are getting tax exempt status. it's'xo these cues one way or another that hey, this is opposed to the administration's policy priorities and i think it was said specifically to z street that some of the scrutiny was to see whether or not the israel

we have a live report. >> arthel: plus, it could be dajavu for lois lerner. will the irs official who has become the public face of the targeting scandal be called back to testify? our political panel breaks it all down next. bulldog: bulldog: time to celebrate with your mates, grill a few dogs... eh, hot dogs. bacon burgers... dashchund: mattress discounters' 4th of july sale ends soon? bulldog: that cloud reminds me... radio: the tempur-pedic cloud collection-- bulldog: that's it! radio: now with 48 months interest-free financing-- basset hound: free financing? radio: or get a queen-size sealy gel memory foam mattress for just $497. bulldog: that's a ringer of a deal! radio: mattress discounters' 4th of july sale ends soon. ♪ mattress discounters >> arthel: welcome back. the largest gathering of latino policy makers, addressing the crowd in chicago, the republican national committee chair says his party is leading the discussion on immigration reform, although the outcome is still unclear. >> like you, i recognize the need for immigration reform because our

lerner was. --is more important through to realize that most important that she made voluntary decisions, not just a decision to make an opening statement that made claims and assertions on point, but then to answer additional questions after she invoked her fifth-amendment privilege to answer additional questions. i am not an attorney, even though i serve on judiciary and have this obligation here today. that is why we sought counsel and took the time. it is the result of recognizing there is both a legal precedent for this, and many people here have not taken the time for it over the last 37 days, but the important thing is the respect for the constitution is also respect for the fact that if somebody comes and gives testimony, they become subject to cross-examination. and the decision here today is to my did she have testimony, and did she choose to take offense,, and is she subject to -- did she give testimony and then choose to take the fifth? -- it is she to subject to that cross- examinati

lerner and mr. miller were talking about how to roll it out. we don't know it was going to take place at that moment in that way, but given the i.g. report was about to come out, they had a choice, roll it out in the ultimately awkward way they did, or waiting for the ig report to come down. >> here is one they missed, though. in order to hatch their plot to soften the blow, ms. lerner in mid-2011 could have done the right thing and simply fixed it then. >> well, to their credit, she did say, look, these -- these flags, these be on the lookout for terms, tea party, 9/12 groups, these are inappropriate, get these out of here in mid-2011. but she knew there was an i.g. investigation going on, as did mr. miller, which is why those conversations took place, and she plead the fifth when she went before the house oversight committee, because there's an ongoing department of justice review, but it also saves her from potential questions from people like obviously darrell issa or jim jordan about the whole scheme which -- my guess would be incredibly e

irs bureaucrat lois lerner tried to get around that by proclaiming her innocence of wrongdoing, then refusing to talk at a congressional hearing. today, lawmakers investigating the taxation's targeting scandal denied that exemption. chief congressional correspondent mike emanuel has our top story. >> the resolution finding lois lerner waived her fifth amendment privileges on may 22nd, 2013 is approved and we stand adjourned. >> reporter: the house oversight 22-17 vote along party lines found learner a key figure in targeting of conservative groups, waived that constitutional right by defending herself. >> i have not done anything wrong. i have not broken any laws. >> reporter: both then and now, former federal prosecutor, trey gowdy offered that she doesn't get to present her side and refuse to answer questions. >> mr. chairman, i have identified nine separate specific assertions made by lois lerner on may the 22nd, and that was after she asserted her right against privilege. >> reporter: the top democratic, elijah cummings tried to argue against the resolution with a different inter

[applause] >> tonight, the house oversight committee debates whether irs official lois lerner waivedher fifth amendment rights at a hearing in may. immigration policy in the house. later, rand paul campaigns in south carolina. >> the house oversight committee today voted along party lines to pass a resolution saying that irs official lois lerner waived her right to remain silent. ms. lerner was in charge of the irs tax exempt organization office and is now on administrative leave. >> the committee will come to order. the committee meets today to consider a resolution to determine whether lois lerner waived her fifth amendment privilege against self- incrimination when she made a voluntary opening statement during the committee's hearing that began on may 22, 2013. the clerk will designate the resolution. >> the resolution on the committee on oversight and

lois lerner did not attendtoda.ney denies she ever waived her right to invoke the fifth amendment adding, quote: it is just too bad that an issue like this gets put to a vote in a highly polarized forum, end quote. mike emanuel live for us on capitol hill. mike, the congressman who first objected to lois lerner's statement is pretty vocal again today. that's right, harris. tray gouty republican of south carolina. he rattled offer five assertions that lois lerner made in the process of telling lawmakers she was not going to be able to answer their questions. once again today gowdy was fired up and defended what lawmakers are doing. >> this is congress asserting its constitutional obligation to provide oversight. yes, she has a constitutional right to remain silent. and she could have invoked it. but she did not. and we have a constitutional obligation to provide oversight. >> fellow republican congressman john mica from florida said that lerner is the poster child of a bureaucrat thumbing her nose at congress and see

that was -- lois lerner. that was after the right she asserted privilege. >> they want to question her but what did exactly what the constitution allows her to. >> the law says the fact she made any statement at all constitutes a waiver of her constitutional rights, not just self-incripple nate. i beg to differ. i think that is constitutional right to thumb your nose. >> if she is called back she could provide answers or plead the fifth again. if she pleads the fifth again, then the committee could hold her in contempt and set in motion a separate phase of legal wrangling. >> gregg: molly, thanks very much. >> heather: weeks into the scandal and most americans are still not getting all the facts. so why hasn't attorney general eric holder appointed a special prosecutor to investigate? john a columnist for national review magazine, thank you for joining us. with seven weeks out from the agency's first disclosure that it had singled out in fact tea party groups seeking tax exempt status. congress, multiple hear

. >> congressional leaders say irs employee lois lerner waived her fifth amendment rights and her attorney said she will not go down without a right. will she have to testify anyway? governor sarah pa lin weighs in. and we'll look at nelson mandela. we'll look at his fight to end racial discrimination and how his life parallels dr. martin luther king. and the nfl decides to punt on propoeting obama care. administration looking for high profile pitches. and the pros are not buying it. i am uma, we are live from the nation's capitol. america's news headquarters starts right now. >> and we begin with what is a dangerous heatwave that is gripping most of the western part of the nation. we are talking about triple digit temperatures and folks in death valley, california they are bracing for teches to hit 130 degrees today. that is close to a record set back 100 years ago. they are joining us live from santa monica, california where it is and cooler than death valley. dom nick? >> uma, people are taking to the ocean to coloff in santa monica beach. families are heading into the water. and marine

. ♪ >> neil: lois lerner is -- has resigned but is still being paid and has access to taxpayer data. that. aleta johnson, the reporter who broke this story with what she discovered. >> hi, neil. thanks for having me. yes, my sources in the irs are telling me that lois leadershipper, who was placed on leave on may 21st, after refusing to resign, has full access to all of the data she had access to asç the head of e exempt organizations division at the irs, and has actually logged in using her agency laptop since she was placed on leave. so may 21st she was placed on leave. thez1ngc.ie&jrf?kk last time sn using her agency computer was june 4th. >> neil: so, she would have, -- she can still log in and do everything she can when she was working there and has access to everything. the irs says that's not the case and this statement sums it up. the irs ensures that employees placedç on administrative leave would not have access to irs computer systems. i notice from the wording that does not necessarily mean that it applies in this case. but what do you make of this? >> well, i would as

will you ask lois lerner to come and testify as you have?i think -- >> the public's trust is lost, about to take on obama care. will you have everyone, including roseman and lerner come forward? >> i've answered questions for the past two hours, i held a press conference the other day open to the press to ask me a lot of questions. the most important thing i can do right now is get back to work. >> the tea party groups, did they get any clearances about the urs targeting investigation. >> good to be back. >> what it was like for you sitting in the hearing today? >> well, it reminded me that if you are invited to a barbecue, make sure you are not the pig. commissioner werfel really caught it tow. and to be honest, he didn't give very good answers, complete answers, and he deserved a bit of grilling in my opinion. >> what did you want to hear answer answered? >> blew it right out of the gate when he said his own investigation if you will, internally in the irs, that he found no wrongdoing. this whole thing started with an apology for a wrongdo

lerner in the last year. the question i'd like to ask to each of you is what do you think the irs commissioner should do once this committee, exposing everyone in the irs that orchestratedded this policy. mr. k? >> i think it's conjecture. i don't think it's appropriate for me to determine what the irs commissioner should do. i can only speak for what i would like to see done with regard to the whole matter to get to the truth, and if there is criminal activity that we have the miranda rule courage to pursue is and not politicize it and said, okay, we apologize. we, as taxpayers, if we fail to pay taxes, we get criminal penalties, it's not acceptable for the irs to say, oh, i'm sorry. >> i feel like -- >> i'm going to have to ask everyone to answer briefly. we're out of time. >> okay. i'd like to see a huge transformation of the whole way taxes are done, and as far as, you know, i feel like as a -- just a person concerned in my community, if i wanted to start an organization and work to educate citizens and h

we have proven-- >>> you mention that and lois lerner. i mean, she is in front of you and takes the fifth. she apologized in a planted question, american bar association meeting in may. that's how this allegedly first came out. let me show nu2011, a year after the targing allegedly happened. she told another conference, mostly what i want to focus on is c4, c5 and 6s that are self proclaimed. but based on what they are doing, they shouldn't be in the section they are n. they look like they are exempt bah they are probably not following the right rules. there have you miss lerner on the record, blaming -- it seems -- the groups themselves. >> what a disconnect, eric. that anyone would believe exercising your first amendment right to express your political views is a taxable event. government ought to be able to tax you for expressing a constitutionally protected right. but some folks, the longer they stay in government, the more myopic their view. one of our democratic colleagues in ways & means was blaming the groups until paul ryan aptly

lerner use when she was telling you, get out or else?well, they are very powerful and i was just one person and i felt very threatened and then after i won, this is something very important that i haven't been able to share yet, after we won the case and my political career was over, the newspapers didn't cover the fact that it turned out that i was right and the federal elections commission was wrong. a couple of months later, two fbi agents came to my home and they said they wanted to interview me and i didn't take the fifth amendment. about a $2,000 contribution that my mother gave to my campaign. where did she get that kind of money, they asked. and then they interviewed it -- my elderly mother and i told mom, tell the truth. you contributed to your son's campaign? and the fbi agents came back to me, we're dropping this. think they knew they were used politically. lois lerner was after me, didn't let go and i don't think a person like that should be in power and much less run the obama care. stuart: we appreciate it, that was an inte

lerner was in charge of the irs' tax-exempt organizations office. she claimed she had done nothing wrong in regards to irs targeting of conservative groups. the committee this morning will discuss whether that decision to give a statement invalidated ms. lerner's fifth amendment rights which she asserted following the statement.

issa keeps lerner to come back to capitol hill. to all this if she doesn't have the answers, nobody does, she was running the group inside the irs. >> if she doesn't have the answers, they have to go to special council? >> boehner and special people have been re6, they want congress to lead the investigations. if congress continues to come up short in this investigation, they have to go to a special paven el. >> what is happening the irs is investigating? >> there is almost a simultaneous. eventually, you will see more subpoenas. >> in the last minute, immigration, okay, very divisive inside the republican party. let me ask you, what's your outlook? the senate bill will not become the house bill. that's what i gather, listening to paul ryan and others, but do you think some kind of immigration reform is possible coming out of the house? >> i think it's very possible t. senate bill, itself, is not going to be passed in this house. there is some in the merging months, july 10th. they're going to talk about the passport to immigration

lois lern lois lerner, correct me if i'm wrong, first knew about this on june 11th. >> that's kofshth. that's when she was notified of the targeting taking place. >> after consulting the treasury, consulting with the white house we didn't hear about it from her and set up questions until may 10th of 2013. >> right. also she came up with another criteria used for. some of the groups in the audience with you today got put in this dragnet because of lois lerner coming out to other organizations not just tea party groups. she basically is responsible for doing that. >> in march of 2013 doug shuman the head of the irs assured the american people in congress that this was not happening, correct? >> in fact he did that a year ago in response to questions from congress. >> may 2012. >> march 2012. >> 2012, uh-huh. that's right. >> one of the things i want to ask both of you the same question. it is puzzling to me is shulman went to the white house 157 times. his answer was i was there once for an easter egg hunt or whatever it is. nobody as i check the records to be cabinet members of obama t

you wanted lois lerner back before your committee. let's go back and let's listen to what she said. >> i have not done anything wrong. i have not broken any laws. i have not violated any irs rules or regulations and i have not provided false information to this or any other congressional committee. >> john: she made a statement and then promptly took the fifth amendment declining to testify which is her right. you say, congressman, the way she did she waived her fifth amendment rights. you are a former prosecutor. what do you plan to do about it? >> well, you say that is her right. it is her right to remain silent. it is not your right to offer a lot of exculpatory information and say i'm not going to be subjected to cross-examination. the right to confront witnesses and cross-examine witnesses is also in the constitution. it's in the sixth million and not the fifth. what are we going to do? i would hope that lois lerner would feel motivated to share the information she has with congress, whether a proper or limited immunity agreement

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lois lerner being on administrative leave is accountability?s lois lerner still being paid today. >> she is. martha: she is. there you have it. mark everson joins me now. he served as irs commissioner from 2003 to 2007. he is from alliant group. thank you for being back here today. >> thank you, martha. martha: what do you make of that? is that satisfactory? and how would you handle it this happened on your watch? >> well, the whole, event is really a sad story, martha. it is a bad chapter for the irs and for the country as a whole. as you know so many interact with the agency that they think of the irs as their government in many ways. so this is pretty terrible. there were three things that happened here. there were problems at the lowest level in cincinnati. and they do call for proper discipline as the congressman indicated. the issue here though there are very important civil service rules and laws, if you will that guaranty rights. so prompt investigations should be undertaken and then, let the chips fall where this may. then there were p

lerner is on administrative leave, and at the same time, she's still getting paid.d with those taxpayer dollars that she abused. what we are creating here is just a culture that's protecting the waste and abuse of power and the waste of taxpayer dollarss gerri: it's not the first scandal. there's many with the irs. this is just one of them. there was a conference recently that they paid a lot of money for. >> yeah. gerri: really embarrassing. people -- irs agents using credit cards, the targeting of conservative groups, of course, and then what was really embarrassing, handing out bonuses right in the middle of the furloughs, and these went to union folks. i have to tell you, i feel like the irs is out of control as app agency. what do you think? >> absolutely. this agency doesn't seem to get the message that the american people are frustrated with the size and role of government and what they are doing. government spending continues to be a top concern of the american people, and what we see here is the irs does not care for the dollars brought in. it's been making

lois lerner first knew about this in june of 2011. is that right? >> that's correct.'s when she was aware of ths targeting that was taking place >> sean: after consulting with theujyñr treasury, with the whie house, we didn't hear about it o her from her until may 20th of 2013. right. and also intervening in that period of time she came up withh another criteria to have the determinations unit used for tax exemption, which actually complicated and madee it it wor. in fact, some of the groupssit sitting in the audience with you today got put in thisç dragnet because of lois lerner basically broadening out to other conservative organizations, not just tea party groups, to be in this dragnet of irs special review. she basically is responsible for doing that. >> sean: and cleta, in march of 2013, doug shulman, then the head of the irs, assured the a american people and congress this was notres happening, corr? >> yes. in fact, he did that a year ago in response to questions fromque congressman jordan and others. >> sean: that's right. march 2012. >> 2012, uh-huh. that's

kenney have you also received a letter from his lerner? now?>> in the materials i gave, yes. >> in her mouth received letters from lois lerner? mr. chairman, we have three witnesses here who received letters from lois lerner last week or two weeks ago mr. miller suggested this was defined to cincinnati. we have a conflicting statement between what mr. miller sad and what happened to win a ticket to the bottom of that. mr. eastman, can you name the inspector general for tax administration officials you expressed your case with quick >> i can provide that after the hearing. >> if you could provide this after the hearing i appreciate it. >> denote the leak of your tax information included donors, did it come from washington d.c. are sent to 90 or do you now? >> i don't have any reason to believe it came from cincinnati. arafat announces in utah in the wash and novices who we've been dealing with. >> mr. chairman, we should figure out or perhaps the inspector general has the information to speed up the process on the investigation of where the info

the resolution finding lois lerner waived her fifth amendment provision on may 22nd, 2013 is approved. >> i'm not trying to make this more difficult than it should be. it's just that i think that when he would are dealing with -- i'm very sensitive to this constitution. because i wouldn't be here if it wasn't for it. >> lois lerner is, in fact, a poster child for thumbing her nose, a federal bureau craft thumbing her nose at congress. >> laura: learn his or her is on paid administrative leave could be called back to the committee and be held in contempt if she refuses to testify. with us now to analyze julianne epstein a democratic strategist. all right, it was on party lines they voted as i said to waive the privilege. dershowitz today, at alan dershowitz the esteemed harvard law professor says she risks being held in contempt of congress for her actions. he didn't think it looks like there was reasonable for her to invehicle the fifth amendment. if she doesn't come back and testify, she could find herself in a heap of trouble. >> she could find herful? a contempt proceeding. remembe

should lois lerner be called back to testify?stepped over the line when she took the fifth and said she was innocent? bill: issa was with us the other day and he pretty much said she'll come back. he says she waived her right to plead the fifth. well over 70% of americans we talked to look at this thing and go after it. martha: that will be interesting when she comes back. bill: another fox news alert. there is a leak investigation reaching the highest level of the armed forces. the former second highest ranking officer in the u.s. military, retired four star general james cartwright, he's the target after criminal leak investigation including a top secret cyber attack involving tehran. kt macfarland, a national security analyst with me now. he's the target of this investigation. give us the facts. >> if the fbi says you are a target of an investigation that means they have reason to believe that you know a lot about a crime that might have been committed and they are going to charge you for it. you a form four star general, numb

first we went this one up to lois lerner in d.c. the head of the national review showed that a team of lawyers in the technical unit known as tax law specialists were guiding this all along. now, today, we learn a source in the irs gave us a partial list of the 88 computers that investigators are looking at. includes the computers of irs chief counsel william wilkins who is one of the two political appointees aside from the irs commissioner in the obama administration, his two deputies and 14 other people. >> why would they be looking at his computer? what do they know? first of all, who is doing the investigations? the fbi? >> there are several -- we don't know which investigative committee asked to lock at wilkins' computer. there are several investigations going on right now. there is an investigation by the oversight committee, an investigation by the house ways and means committee. an investigation by the senate finance committee and lastly an investigation by the irs. >>> so there are four concurrent investigations going on ri

plus, neither ousted irs chief miller or shulman nor lois lerner were questioned in this report.e not getting any answers those are relevant questions. nobody has identified a crime or identified a conflict. furthermore what we have found, let me finish my point -- it was a republican staffer inside the cincinnati office that started the targeting. there were 15 conservative groups and many of the groups that were seeking tax exempt status were engaged in political activity. you cannot get political status if you were engaged in political activity. >> heather: i appreciate. brad, i'm sorry you didn't get to give a final statement. only 7 of the 297 pages appear to appear for conservative cases. >> they were mostly on conservative tied sied. >> abuse of government power that would have been committed by the irs. in the meantime, powerful testimony highlighting week one of the george zimmerman murder trial. what can we expect to see from this case going forward. our legal panel is here to weigh in. coming up, afghan war like you have never seen it before. we're going to talk to a m

jenna: and new next hour, irs employee lerner once again under the microscope, why she could actuallyforced to answer questions even though she's taken the fifth amendment. we'll get you up-to-date on that. >>> also, the pentagon taking some heat for a multimillion dollar deal to buy russian-made helicopters for the afghan army. trouble is, they don't have anybody to fly the helicopters because the afghan army's not trained in this. a report suggests this is wasteful spending. we'll bring you up-to-date. >>> and alec baldwin's twitter account shut down after another multidown. why the angry star went off this time and who was the target coming up in our fox 411. jon: right now new questions over proposed taxes on guns and am a in addition. and ammunition. several states are considering measures that would call for new sales tax on the weapons. supporters hope it will discourage gun violence and help pay for the damage caused by shootings. critics say the tax plans are coordinated, a coordinated effort by gun control groups. molly henneberg is taking a look at that controversy live fro

lois lerner first knew about this in june of 2011. is that right? >> that's correct.'s when she was aware of ths targeting that was taking place >> sean: after consulting with theujyñr treasury, with the whie house, we didn't hear about it o her from her until may 20th of 2013. right. and also intervening in that period of time she came up withh another criteria to have the determinations unit used for tax exemption, which actually complicated and madee it it wor. in fact, some of the groupssit sitting in the audience with you today got put in thisç dragnet because of lois lerner basically broadening out to other conservative organizations, not just tea party groups, to be in this dragnet of irs special review. she basically is responsible for doing that. >> sean: and cleta, in march of 2013, doug shulman, then the head of the irs, assured the a american people and congress this was notres happening, corr? >> yes. in fact, he did that a year ago in response to questions fromque congressman jordan and others. >> sean: that's right. march 2012. >> 2012, uh-huh. that's

lois lerner first knew about this in june of 2011. is that right? >> that's correct.'s when she was aware of ths targeting that was taking place >> sean: after consulting with theujyñr treasury, with the whie house, we didn't hear about it o her from her until may 20th of 2013. right. and also intervening in that period of time she came up withh another criteria to have the determinations unit used for tax exemption, which actually complicated and madee it it wor. in fact, some of the groupssit sitting in the audience with you today got put in thisç dragnet because of lois lerner basically broadening out to other conservative organizations, not just tea party groups, to be in this dragnet of irs special review. she basically is responsible for doing that. >> sean: and cleta, in march of 2013, doug shulman, then the head of the irs, assured the a american people and congress this was notres happening, corr? >> yes. in fact, he did that a year ago in response to questions fromque congressman jordan and others. >> sean: that's right. march 2012. >> 2012, uh-huh. that's

that would be my advice to lerner. she doesn't look good. >> there is a slight resemblance between you and kiefer sutherland. we'll see if you can compel her to come back in a similar fashion. thanks for joining us. appreciate your time this morning. >> cheers and celebration on the supreme court steps after the high court's ruling and high profile same-sex marriage cases. already new battles are brewing on the state level. our sunday panel is next. how old you've known? person we gave people a sticker and had them show us. we learned a lot of us have known someone who's lived well into their 90s. and that's a great thing. but even though we're living longer, one thing that hasn't changed much is the official retirement age. ♪ the question is how do you make sure you have the money you need to enjoy all of these years. ♪ [ male announcer ] for our families... our neighbors... and our communities... america's beverage companies have created a wide range of new choices. developing smaller portion sizes and more low- & no

lois lerner is on paid administrative leave. and former acting irs director steven miller was allowed to resign early. the investigation continues, but legal analysts say there is a reason why it's tough to fire government employees. >> thank you. >>> i think we as a society have always felt that people who work for the government, career workers, shouldn't be subject to changing political whims. so you don't want a situation where when one party comes into power, thousands and thousands of people clear out and thousands and thousands of new people come in. >> he says it can take months and years to fire a government employee after you go through the various stages of the appeal process. julie? >> molly henneberg, thank you very much. and so where do we go from here in the irs scandal? and all the other plaguing the white house? those are some of the topics tomorrow on fox news sunday when republican senator rand paul sits down with anchor chris wallace. you can watch it right here only on fox. >>> police say the woman charged w

lerner the last year. the question i would like to ask to each of you is -- what do you think the irs commissioner should do once this committee is successful and exposing everyone at the irs that orchestrated this policy. ? >> i think it is conjectured. i don't think it is appropriate for me to determine with the irs commissioner should do. i can only speak to what i would like to see done and that is to get to the truth. if there is criminal activity, that we have the moral courage to pursue it and not politicize it and say we just apologize. as taxpayers, if we felt to their taxes, we get criminal penalties so it is not acceptable for the irs to say i'm sorry. will have to ask everyone to answer briefly because we're out of time. >> i would like to see a huge transformation of the way taxes are done. as a person concerned in my community, if i want to start an organization and work to educate citizens and have candidates to speak, i should not need to have to worry about paying any taxes on money collec