>> guest: leslie bennetts was hired in 1978. it's amazing the number of talented women who were hired in 1978, which was the year that the lawsuit against the times for sex discrimination was settled in favor of the women who had brought the suit. there's a whole class of 1978, i found out. and immediately thereafter, the times began hiring more women reporters, particularly because they're more visible because of their bylines -- began hiring more women as soon as we confronted the management. "we" being the women's caucus -- the newly formed women's caucus i mean, i was sent to paris, flora lewis was sent out as a bureau chief. all kinds of women were being brought into the city room. but they still were being brought in at significantly less pay, and there weren't that many of them. there were about three to five in the city room when i first viewed it. i mean, anywhere -- no women copy readers. when i came in 1955, i was sent to the women's page. and when i came down to the city room, five years later in 1959, there were sti

former "new york times" reporter leslie bennett is saying she actually alleges there's a long historyxism at the grey lady. >> they pay lip service. they write editorials. but the fact is, you know, by a lot of other indices, they're still unbelievably sexism. >> what do you think, eric? do you think this is hypocrisy on the part of the "new york times" or something more? >> for me, the biggest problem is the hypocrisy. couple of the headlines you read, countless, countless headlines on gender inequality. definitely towing that line and then this happens. it's not that they paid abramson less than they paid keller because in my world, you pay what you can pay. you pay what you pay. you pay for the person that you're hiring, not whether she's she, he, black, white. they're an employer, a for profit entity. they want to keep their expenses down. i don't have a problem with paying her less. i have a problem firing her when she asks about it. they fire her. oh, there's a big pay gap, gender gap in america and that needs to be fix ed. >> the "new york times" is refuting these reports. ther

my panel is back to discuss and we are joined by leslie bennett, who left "the new york times" in 1988ri dispute. i want to start with you on this question. we'll kbet to the specifics of the jill abramson story, but it did strike me that the language was disturbing that we heard used over and over again to describe this behavior and to then describe that behavior as inappropriate. >> it's always the same language. the female editor of france was also forced out of her job this week. and what is always said about women is that they are difficult or brusk. now dean, who replaced jill abramson, has a pension for putting his first through walls. this is regarded as like a cute little attribute when it's a man. but if jill walks by somebody and doesn't say hello, she's said to have difficulty and not smoozing the staff enough. i worked at "the new york times" for ten years in several different departments and in my experience, the men were mercurial would be an undersamt. you'd pretty much have to take a carving knife and plunge it into somebody's heart if you were a man to be called diffi