. >> before we go to tony, let me ask john. the book that you wrote was such a commentary on how we train or fail to train lawyers. you know, in the typical method that we teach in law school. that book and that story "the paper chase," what were you saying about the way in which -- i mean, when i went to law school, the emphasis was to become a corporate lawyer. there was very little emphasis placed on being a people's lawyer. or somebody like a tony sarah. what are your thoughts on that? you've practiced. you're a law professor. recently retired. you've taught at a number of different schools. any thoughts on that? >> well, yes, i have lots of thoughts on it. i went to harvard law school. and believe me, when i was there, there was no legal aid at all. everybody was become a corporate lawyer. there was no question about it. you didn't even think about it. it would never even dawn on anybody. i don't think that anybody knew that there were defense attorneys. you know? anyway, at its heart that little clip said something, i thi

. >> schieffer: let me ask you, john, about herman cain. i'll ask you what i asked rick santorum. he be for real? >> well, he is for real in the sense that you talk to voters they're the ones that everybody is talking... he's the one that everybody is talking about. the polls have shown it now. there's a recent poll that showed him 37 nrs in eye wachlt he has to do well in iowa because that gives him the spark. you mentioned money. he doesn't have it the way the other two big candidates have it. the big test about herman cain is in iowa it's an organizational state. he doesn't have much of an organization. in iowa. that's the real test for him. he's gone there a couple of times but not enough. >> schieffer: thanks to both of you. i'll be back in a moment. with some final thoughts. every time a local business opens its doors or creates another laptop bag or hires another employee, it's not just good for business. it's good for the entire community. at bank of america, we know the impact that local businesses have on communities. that's why we extended $7.8 billion to small business

. >> and let me ask you, john, because a lot of people have come out and say the last time we gave this break and overall it didn't create jobs in america. if it happened, you are going to create how many jobs in the united states. >> the last time we created quite a few thousand jobs, i think you can look at the gdp growth and it grew well the next two to three years and following the package that came back inside. the unemployment went from 5.5% and 4.5%. it is not the silver bullet. you have to move on policies. america is an amazing innovative country. we have to pull business and american citizens together to lead us out of this slowdown. i think we can do it as a nation. >> john chambers was elected by politico as someone who should run as an independent for president. others on the politico list included mayor michael bloomberg, hillary clinton, david petraeus and colin powell. it's not a surprise that they played the game of another candidate and this is me. the latest poll, only 14% of voters say they are very satisfied with the current candidate roster. joining us from our was

. >> and let me ask you, john, because a lot of people have come out and say the last time we gave this break and overall it didn't create jobs in america. if it happened, you are going to create how many jobs in the united states. >> the last time we created quite a few thousand jobs, i think you can look at the gdp growth and it grew well the next two to three years and following the package that came back inside. the unemployment went from 5.5% and 4.5%. it is not the silver bullet. you have to move on policies. america is an amazing innovative country. we have to pull business and american citizens together to lead us out of this slowdown. i think we can do it as a nation. >> john chambers was elected by politico as someone who should run as an independent for president. others on the politico list included mayor michael bloomberg, hillary clinton, david petraeus and colin powell. it's not a surprise that they played the game of another candidate and this is me. the latest poll, only 14% of voters say they are very satisfied with the current candidate roster. joining us from our was

let me ask you, john, to respond to the extent you wish to what nadine mentioned, and nadine, can you give more concrete examples of significant steps you feel have been in the wrong direction. john? >> thank you, general. thanks, nadine, for that great presentation. first i -- >> can i frame that comment, too? >> you can but again i'm not going to say i ever wrote it or signed it. one lesson i learned from government now. i guess one thing i just like the point about nadine's description of the last ten years. what i didn't hear, i didn't hear the claim that the president and congress were in disagreement. i think one thing you heard about the bush administration or the claim was that you had a unilateral executive acting on its own, and i think we actually look at the record, one thing that does come clear in the last ten years, and certainly in the last two years, is that congress, every chance it had, supported his policies that you're criticizing. so the authorization for the use of military force, which is thability to detain, congress passed the patriot act by huge majorities.

let me ask the audience. >> no! >> john: that is my kind of audience. >> i say personally when i am getting on an airline, i want a guy from a government who can assure me that that plane is in good condition. in other words, i think government has a role. >> john: you don't think the airline which has own pilots and flight attendants would try as hard as the government that the plane was safe? >> i wish that were true. i bet in some cases it is. not intentionally but what if they are cutting corners. >> john: they happen under government protection, too? >> the question we can't answer which way would it work better or worse. i think when it comes -- that is what i meant. i'm with you john. i'm with you all the way. i guess waut i got some water from lake michigan for you. >> john: i grew around lake michigan and i lake the water there. now, more on our stupid consumers. getting your business from point a to point b can be tricky. sometimes what you need is extra working capital or leasing options. and as one of the top-ra

let me ask the audience. >> no! >> john: that is my kind of audience. >> i say personally when i am getting on an airline, i want a guy from a government who can assure me that that plane is in good condition. in other words, i think government has a role. >> john: you don't think the airline which has own pilots and flight attendants would try as hard as the government that the plane was safe? >> i wish that were true. i bet in some cases it is. not intentionally but what if they are cutting corners. >> john: they happen under government protection, too? >> the question we can't answer which way would it work better or worse. i think when it comes -- that is what i meant. i'm with you john. i'm with you all the way. i guess waut i got some water from lake michigan for you. >> john: i grew around lake michigan and i lake the water there. now, more on our stupid consumers. [ male announcer ] to the 5:00 a.m. scholar. the two trains and a bus rider. the "i'll sleep when it's done" academic. for 80 years, we've been inspired b

. >> john, let me ask you. michael was known to be pretty profligate with his spending.ow much of a difficulty was that for him? i don't want to get into details of what debt he may have had. but was his spending out of control as people say it was? >> well, that was an area that was handled by michael's business managers and accountants. and michael made a lot of money and i probably believe it's true that he spent a lot of money, but he left a lot behind. he had a lot to show for it. >> you worked on the elvis estate briefly, i know that. >> yes. >> how does this compare, two great entertainers, solo artists. how do their estates compare in terms of how you manage them? >> well, it's hard to compare. elvis came up in a different era in the '50s. i was a big elvis fan. that's one of the reasons i got in the music industry. but michael, you know, went to the berry gordie music school of the business, then learned from great teachers. one of the things i found representing various members of the hall of fame is as the generations have gone by, musicians have become very m

john, let me ask you first of all how damaging was this tape to the defense? >> it is hurtful to the defense because it goes to the admission. he basically admits he gave the drug and gave it to michael under circumstances that were not ideal. he wasn't in a hospital and more importantly, also goes to the fact that he's basically negligent that he didn't engage in the kind of care and oversight that one would expect, given that it wasn't even in a hospital. so very hurtful to him. >> i know you've been following the trial closer than most. did you learn anything new from those tapes that you did not already know? >> well, i think what you get is the doctor actually has a nice demeanor, which -- he has a nice demeanor, he is very clear in his thinking, has kind of an engaging, soft spoken personality, it was helpful in that extent, humanizes him than we otherwise would have known. >> it sounded at times like dr. murray really was torn. it sounded like again that he was really frustrated that he couldn't get michael jackson to sleep without this. it sounded like

. >> jamie: let me ask you about staffing, john fund will join us and, in new hampshire, michelle bachmann lost a few staffers. what is she saying will happen for her in iowa? >> reporter: her campaign is saying, that they are basically going to camp out in iowa, and tell the caucuses that is their intention and this morning she wouldn't go so far as to say she's all in, in iowa but she said what she thinks, the people there want from a candidate. >> i can until, here in iowa, people want to be sure our nominee is 100% pro-life, 100% standing for marriage between a man and a woman, and, certainly don't want to see terrorists, like khalid sheikh mohammed released from guantanamo bay. that is nonnegotiable. >> the congresswoman in the latest university of iowa poll, that came out on friday, has 4% support in the state behind perry, newt gingrich, paul, romney and cain, the leader with 37%, and that is in iowa. and in new hampshire, we learned governor john sununu will endorse mitt romney, tomorrow when mitt romney files his candidacy papers up there. in the north. back to you. >> jamie: pete

let me ask you this. some of the changes, john fund, have been in getting rid of early voting, same-day registration -- >>hanging the rules. >> i understand, but why not make it -- i guess, why isn't the push for reform on this saying we want more identification and easier ways to register to vote? >> look, the real problem, i agree, is absentee voter fraud. that's the tool of choice for voter fraud. early voting is a good idea, but you don't want to expand it so much so that you lose the focus on election day. remember, we have election day for a reason, everybody coming together and rendering the same decision at the same time. early voting is useful, but some places, like maine, allow it way in advance. some people have early voting before the debates are even over. i think the status of an election should be people should have as much information as possible, and certainly, they shouldn't be voting before the debates are over. >> michael, what do you say to that? >> one of the laws that's going to cut back on voting rights was in maine, where they eliminated election day registration where you need to

. >> let me ask you, david, what do you think about john mccain as being put out as the face of this?ople want compromise and someone in the center, which john mccain, relative to a lot of other people that could be put out, is more centrist perceived wise. >> right. this is an attempt to say with rand paul and john mccain seen as a republican consensus here and it's pretty broad. i worry that the idea -- these ideas -- although broad, are not powerful enough. because the country's job crisis is so desperate. and a lot of this does look like rummaging through yesterday's leftovers, rather than coming up with the big response the country needs. and having rand paul there signifies another problem which is the creation of money and credit on almost unprecedented scale. and especially if we have a euro crisis and to have somebody who is associated with the kind of primitive monetary economics that rand paul is associated with tells you it's going to be very hard for this party to get behind what it most needs, which is money and credit creation. >> james carville, you said the republican

. >> well, let me ask -- go back to our prime guest here, john. you know, just a few years ago, we had an election in 2004, and i don't know if you studied the politics of the gay issues, but my understanding is that ohio went for president bush, w. bush, because there was a whole movement out there to try to fight the issue of same-sex marriage on the ballot. and it was basically skewed with don king and some other people involved in it and karl rove, to use that issue as a wedge issue to basically screw john kerry in ohio and it worked and flipped the entire national election to w. do you think that it's going to be a wedge issue this time around by the republicans, to be blunt about it? >> i think that really with the gay marriage issue, what's happened is the government and the church are split on the issue and i think that really as a government, that we shouldn't have gotten involved in the issue of marriage. and so therefore, i think we've kind of put ourselves in a very difficult spot, because, frankly, i think coming from a pure governmen

. >> let me ask you, david, what do you think about john mccain as being put out as the face of this?ld seem that was a nod to the fact that people want compromise and someone in the center, which john mccain, relative to a lot of other people that could be put out, is more centrist perceived wise. >> right. this is an attempt to say with rand paul and john mccain seen as a republican consensus here and it's pretty broad. i worry that the idea -- these ideas -- although broad, are not powerful enough. because the country's job crisis is so desperate. and a lot of this does look like rummaging through yesterday's leftovers, rather than coming up with the big response the country needs. and having rand paul there signifies another problem which is the creation of money and credit on almost unprecedented scale. and especially if we have a euro crisis and to have somebody who is associated with the kind of primitive monetary economics that rand paul is associated with tells you it's going to be very hard for this party to get behind what it most needs, which is money and credit creation.

let's bring in david gergen now, cnn senior political analyst, john avalon, the daily beast along with j.c. watts, former republican congressman from oklahoma. let me ask you all this question of iraq. did we win? this has now spanned two administrations. >> i think the secretary was right. we don't know yet. what do i think is that president obama, we have to remember, this -- the promise to get out of iraq is what ignited this campaign and what led him to the nomination and led him to the presidency, and, in effect, he's right that he has ended it as he pledged and for many americans this will be a walk-on moment for for those who study and think about this, for the way we go out will be a great disappointment. you heard secretary cohen say not 3,000 to 5,000, but 30,000. that shows how much military types really thought we needed to keep a significant presence there and the fact we couldn't negotiate some type of deal to keep them there with immunity says a lot about the fact that we don't have a relationship even today after all we've done for these people that that government isn't doing some of the things that's in their interests and our interes

let's bring in david gergen now, cnn senior political analyst, john avalon, the daily beast along with j.c. watts, former republican congressman from oklahoma. let me ask you all this question of iraq. did we win? this has now spanned two administrations. >> i think the secretary was right. we don't know yet. what do i think is that president obama, we have to remember, this -- the promise to get out of iraq is what ignited this campaign and what led him to the nomination and led him to the presidency, and, in effect, he's right that he has ended it as he pledged and for many americans this will be a walk-on moment for for those who study and think about this, for the way we go out will be a great disappointment. you heard secretary cohen say not 3,000 to 5,000, but 30,000. that shows how much military types really thought we needed to keep a significant presence there and the fact we couldn't negotiate some type of deal to keep them there with immunity says a lot about the fact that we don't have a relationship even today after all we've done for these people that that government isn't doing some of the things that's in their interests and our interes

working can you name a second case in the entire thirty five years of john marshall sitting on the supreme court i mean this is a well let me ask you that only case was marbury do you think of the supreme court saying you shouldn't be able to put a gay person in jail just for being gay in lawrence v texas they think that was an illegitimate act of judicial review i think it was a great decision i personally believe that the supreme court does not have the authority to strike down laws made by congress and passed and signed by the president and i grew thomas jefferson on this in fact he said first of all article three section two of the supreme court or of the constitution the supreme court shall have apologists jurisdiction both as the law in fact subjects that we subject such exceptions and under such regulations as the congress shall make. it's not time for congress to start saying to the supreme court things like. you know no more political decisions or clarence thomas your wife can't be allowed in and you would be deciding cases i don't think so i think would be very dangerous because if you think about it every time a diff

i have the same agreement with john hastings on the seventh circuit. he had asked me to let him know if i thought he was not performing the same quality work as he had in the past. by the way, he was also a man that wrote out the first drafts of his own opinion. i remember that when i went on to the court. when david came, i asked david if she would tip me off. it is something that every judge gets on and years and has to realize, you have to appreciate the views of others. >> did he ever tip you off? >> no, he never did. he left before i did, so i did not have this protection anymore. it was a serious breach of contract on his part to resign before i did. >> you sent a letter to the white house in advance telling them that you were going to retire. >> yes. >> how much time did you give them? >> i do not remember. it is all a public matter, i think. didn't they announced a letter the same time that i send it? >> i do not remember. >> i think sometime in june. >> what triggered it? do you remember the moment he said, i am getting out? >> it was a process. i was asked this in