, a consulting firm, health care experts -- >> in fact, the lewin group did a study. >> well, the lewin associates, a very respected technical firm -- >> there is one study from the lewin group. >> one firm is telling us, the lewin group. >> what you'll have from the lewin think tank that specializes in health care -- >> the lewin group providing the anti-talking points for americans and the dramatic bad numbers about all the bad things that will happen if we reform health care that happen to be off what the nonpartisan sources say by a factor of ten? that group is actually united health. the insurance company. but again, united health on the surface maintains it is supportive of health care reform. the lesson here is to watch what these corporations do not just what they say. the other lesson here is that when you see a big, organized purportedly grass roots event, and just as a citizen or a blogger or a reporter or elected official if you are trying to assess the political import of the big, organized, purportedly grass roots event, you should find out who organized it. you should loo

, the lewin group, lewin group. is your speedy sense tingling? >> are you aware that the lewin group is paid subsidiary of the big health care company? >> way to go, grandma. >> cpo earns 3.2 million a year which comes out to 10 $2,000 an hour. surely we can do better than that. >> the reason i'm aware of the relationship to an insurance company is because when i was over nora, a person brought it up like you did and they said that. i -- but otherwise i didn't know that. but it is something that isn't only quoted by members of congress as an authority on health care issues, but is also quoted in a lot of the academic press, as well. i think they have a good reputation of citing health care issues. >> yeah, that insurance company has a great reputation on health care issues. just like the groups do that organize these town hall protests he finds so persuasive. that well informed citizen at that town hall meeting stated the lewin group is a wohly owned subsidiary of united health care group, the second largest health

the way the lewin group gave mr.$60,000 apiece. wholly owned. then there are the birthers laughable from the moment they opened their mouths, a conspiracy that somehow began with the placement of birth notices in two hawaiian newspapers 48 years ago this month. but people who do not want this president to be president will believe anything. and that is meat for fading commentators like lou dobbs whatever he actually believes because the bitter movement touches another part of the defective soul, the need for an excuse for they need to convince themselves in an immense conspiracy and place that conviction as a barrier between their actions and the sad reality that they are not the victims of intricate machinations against freedom but they are just garden variety ordinary racists, that they can handle the most limited of integration only in theory. they will take anything that will let them pretend that when they burst into tears and cry they want their america back. they're not asking for white power, not asking someb

but the lewin group, too, is owned by unitedhealth group. has given thousands to hatch and cantor in just the past two years. before unitedhealth group, hemsley spent 23 years at arthur andersen accounting, serving as chief financial officer from fall of 1995 to when he left in '97. for services overlapping that period, arthur andersen became embroiled in several scandals. sued for fraud over accounting in its waste management incorporated, denied wrongdoing. settled for $95 million. sued over sunbeam accounting. denied wrongdoing. settled for $180 million, fined more than $7 million. sued over the baptist foundation of arizona. these investors, many of who are elderly, trusted the misleading financial statements audited by andersen. that from then attorney general janet napolitano. denied wrong doing, settled for $217 million. and enron, where arthur andersen accounting was auditor and consultant. by the time both companies came down, mr. hemsley was gone. in 1999, mr. hemsley negotiated a new deal as unitedhealth group president. unitedhea

into a government plan. >> governor, had those systems taken ahold -- >> lewin associates is owned by a health insurance company. so let's -- cbo which i think is a more reasonable organization says 5 or 10 million people are going to end up -- >> depends on the amount of people. >> second of all, what the speaker didn't tell you, let's suppose you that get forced out of your employer-based system which is unlikely, but let's suppose you that do. the government will pay you based on your income either to go into a public option or a private option. nobody is forcing you into the public option. now, the third thing that nobody talks about is this bill is terrific for a small business. the blue dogs made it a better bill, and i hopefully the b by gets through, it gets even better. right now on the house bill, if you're a small business, you have no responsibility whatsoever to give your employees health insurance. that now becomes a subsidy based on your income. this is choice. this is real choice. >> that's in the house bills. but the senate has made it clear they're not going to inclu

will be forced into this public health care plan and a study done for the heritage foundation by the lewin group says 88 million people, at least 88 million people will be forced into the public plan. let's listen to this exchange from president obama's town hall in portsmouth today. >> i still worry that if we go to a public option, period, that the private companies, the insurance companies, rather than competing -- because who can compete with the government? the answer is, nobody. my question is, do you still as yourself now support a universal plan or are you open to the private industry still being maintained? >> the only thing that i have said is that having a public option in that menu would provide competition for insurance companies to keep them honest. >> so it would seem clear, sanjay, that at least some people are going to go into a public plan. big question is, how much would that take away from the private plans? how much would it undercut it? and what number of people would eventually end up in the public plan? >> that's right. that study quoted, john, has numbers varying f

we turn over this country's health care to a government plan and we open up a government plan, the lewinroup, one of the best analytical groups in health care in the country, if not the best, said up to 119.1 million people would transfer from private insurance into the government plan. >> one possible road to compromise on the public option debate, nonprofit cooperatives which could compete with private insurers but would not be run by the government. there's so much out there, so much to cover, we simply can't get to it all, so we want you to check out cnn.com/healthcare. we feature ongoing coverage of the health care debate, a list of town hall meetings from across the country and how health care reform might affect you no matter where you live. >>> the president veered off the health care stump for a few hours of private time with his family -- well, private time if you don't count the cameras there. here's a few snapshots -- here are a few snapshots i should say of the obamas at yellowstone national park in wyoming. they were there yesterday. the first family visited the grand canyo

but we also have another chart from the lewin group. they do health care research.they have researched this bill and the public option. what he said in your question is that it is the government auction. unfortunately, it is only an option in the beginning. then is the only option. if you say the only, it makes it not an option. so what happens is that the health care commissioner determines what plan, what health insurance plan can be offered in this national exchange which we have to buy out. ok? they also determine what the public plan or government option is. therefore, if the referee is wearing a carolina panthers jersey, do you think he will be an unbiased referee of the football game? let's think practically. if your kid is on the baseball team, you cannot be a fair referee. commissioner, they can certainly have the plan for the government option. based on how this bill operates the onus is on the individual, not the business. so, individuals will have to purchase it. under this plan, 119 million americans will not be offered health insurance by their existin