in a way, it is, throw back to what lewis powell was imagining or hoping for.hat is a situation where corporations again are really able to ship, shape the discourse. and that shaping of the discourse is very, very damaging. we see good ideas tossed to the side. we see dysfunctional idea raised up and made dominant in our politics. and it is fair to say today, that not just candidates and campaigns are shaped by money, but really our debate itself is shaped by money. and that, to my mind a very unhealthy thing. i think we've gone in the wrong direction as a country but one of the things we do in the book is detail how all that happened. if you don't know how we got here, some people might start to think this is natural, this is normal. it is not natural. it is not normal. in fact, it is not the way our politics historically was in this country and it certainly shouldn't be the sort of politics that we seek or anticipate for the future. because if our future is definedded by dollars to much greater extent by votes. if future is money is speech. corporations are

it was a split case and one justice, lewis powell, was this one justice who said that you cannot haveuotas but you can take race into account as one of many factors. and by the way, that's the law of bakke is still the reigning law of the supreme court. it might change a bakke still holds. >> host: do we have an active what happened to alan bakke country yes, we do. he went to medical school and he's become a doctor. from what i can tell he has led a painful, productive life. >> host: al franken to be in discussions about race and the law with your students at harvard? >> guest: i am very frank. -- how frank lex in all of my books i have attempted to be frank. i take my position. i take my position. i argue my position strongly. i am pro-affirmative action, for instance. but in my book i also talk about the costs. in fact, so my friends give a little -- get a little bit miffed with me because they think a give away too much. they think maybe i talk about the cost too much, but i think people are smart. i don't think it's useful to try to hide the ball. i take a position. i believe inf

so this has a profound impact on our policy in a way that is a throwback to what lewis powell is hopingt is a situation where corporations are able to shape the discourse and that shaping the discourse is very damaging. we see good ideas and dysfunctional ideas raised up that are dominant in our politics. and really our debate itself is shaped. and one of the things that we do is have that happen. some people might start to think of this as natural or normal and it's not. it's not natural or formal and not the way that the politics historically were in the country and it's certainly shouldn't be the sort of politics that we seek or we anticipate the future. because our future it is defined by dollars, if it says corporations are people and citizens are spectators in this great battle between big-money interests, i think it diminishes our democracy in profound ways. paul simon said that when you get elected to congress in the u.s. senate, you come out of this process. no matter how good of a person you are, after you've had a long day and you've been debating for three or four hours and

it was a split case and one justice, lewis powell was this one justice who said that you cannot havetas but you can take race into account as one of many factors. and by the way, that's the law of bakke is still the reigning law of the supreme court. it might change a bakke still holds. >> host: do we have an active what happened to alan bakke country yes, we do. he went to medical school and he's become a doctor. from what i can tell he has led a painful, productive life. >> host: al franken to be in discussions about race and the law with your students at harvard? >> guest: i am very frank. -- how frank lex in all of my books i have attempted to be frank. i take my position. i take my position. i argue my position strongly. i am pro-affirmative action, for instance. but in my book i also talk about the costs. in fact, so my friends give a little -- get a little bit miffed with me because they think a give away too much. they think maybe i talk about the cost too much but i think people are smart. i don't think it's useful to try to hide the ball. i take a position. i believe inform

it was a split case and one justice, lewis powell, was this one justice who said that you cannot haveuotas but you can take race into account as one of many factors. and by the way, that's the law of bakke is still the reigning law of the supreme court. it might change a bakke still holds. >> host: do we have an active what happened to alan bakke country yes, we do. he went to medical school and he's become a doctor. from what i can tell he has led a painful, productive life. >> host: al franken to be in discussions about race and the law with your students at harvard? >> guest: i am very frank. -- how frank lex in all of my books i have attempted to be frank. i take my position. i take my position. i argue my position strongly. i am pro-affirmative action, for instance. but in my book i also talk about the costs. in fact, so my friends give a little -- get a little bit miffed with me because they think a give away too much. they think maybe i talk about the cost too much, but i think people are smart. i don't think it's useful to try to hide the ball. i take a position. i believe inf

powell, statesman, general, iconic american. and mr. kenny nacke, baltimore in, citizen who endured the loss of his brother, lewis nacke iii, in the tragic> o say can you see by the dawn's early light, what so proudly we hailed at the twilight's last gleaming. whose broad stripes and bright stars through the perilous fight, over the ramparts we watched were so gallantly streaming? and the rockets' red glare, the bombs bursting in air, gave proof through the night that our flag was still there. o say does that star-spangled banner yet wave, for the land of the free and the home of the brave? >> on the shore dimly seen through the mists of the deep, where the foe's hauthy host in dread silence reposes. what is that which the breeze over the towering steep, as it fitfully blows, half conceals, half discloses. now it catches the gleam of the morning's first beam in full glory reflected now shines in the stream. tis the star-spangled banner, o, long may it wave. over the land of the free and the home of the braf. >> and where is that band who so vauntingly swore that the havoc of war and battle's confusion, a home and a country, should leave