he lied to law enforcement from the very beginning. he lied to his family about that, his friends.never told them that he actually was down there until he took the stand yesterday and that's when it all came out, and he said look, i lied because i got paranoid. i was the last one with them. i don't trust sled, law enforcement. and i just said it. i couldn't take it back. but now i'm telling you the truth. yes, i was there. but i came back. >> watching the cross-examination all afternoon, what you saw leading up to that moment, again, where the prosecutor finished there, it felt like five to ten minutes of the prosecutor asking murdaugh again and again about other lies or instances of lying that he told and the list of people did you lie to x, did you lie to z, did you lie to number 3? it was yes, yes, yes. >> then you have to get the state of mind of someone who lies, who defrauds people. you have to then take that over to someone who would commit first-degree murder, which is a premeditated with malicious intent, an evil person, to commit violence against those that are the closes

so i lied. >> so you lied. you're saying that people in your family and your friends didn't instantly believe that whoever these 12-year-old marauders were were back to finish the job? >> you keep using -- >> it happened just two hours after you were confronted by chris wilson. >> i think some people thought that happened when it first happened. randy, ronnie, mark, they knew quickly that this was not -- i think they knew this is something that i had done. it's a shame for you -- i asked this before, but shame for you is an extraordinary provocation, isn't it, mr. murdaugh? >> same for me is an extraordinary provocation. i don't like to be shamed. >> the prospect of humiliating the legacy is an extraordinary provocation, isn't it, mr. murdaugh. >> what do you mean by extraordinary provocation? >> it affects you deeply. it's your biggest concern, is it not? >> no, that's not my biggest concern. >> you're a middle aged man like me. >> i'm 54 years old. i'm not sure -- you look like you're in better shape than me.

>> no. >> you never lied to him? just took his money, you never had to lie to his face is what you are saying? >> he and i never had a conversation, but i did take that money. >> did you lie to tony satterfield a couple months before june 7th? you saw the text. you want me to get it out? >> just remind me what it was. >> i show you what's been marked as 463. >> i don't remember the exact date. >> that was in april of 2021, is that right? >> another quick break. we'll return to cross-examination in a moment. big pharma has been unfairly charging people hundreds of dollars, making record profits. not anymore. weapped the cost of insulin at $35 a month for seniors on medicare. a must in your medici cabinet! less sick days! cold coming on? zicam is the number one cold shortening brand! highly recommend it! zifans love zicam's unique zinc formula. it shortens colds! zicam. zinc that cold! responds to snoring - automatically. so no hiding under your pillow. or opting for the couch. your best sleep. all night. every night.

s. government lied to bring us into war. yes, government always lies about everything. i, every politician lies goes what party your end if their lips are moving there, tell a lie. so such shocking that they actually lied. what shocking is how the american people bought that lie. it shows a level of ignorance about a number of things, the role that citizens play in making the american democracy viable. if you remove the citizen from the equation other than we don't have that, that, that issue of accountability is the thing that makes american democracy work. is that periodically we get to elect people in the higher office who represent us in office, in our name. and if they don't do what we want, ostensibly we get to remove them from power by voting in new people. it's this participation that makes american democracy viable because otherwise, if we don't hold people to account what you get is a veritable dictatorship um, elected officials who aren't subjected to any oversight, any accountability, and therefore they get to do what they want. and so corruption seeks in ly

and i had to have a story as to how i got shot, so i lied. >> so you lied? >> and you're saying that people in your family and friends didn't instantly believe that whoever these 12-year-olds were back it finish the job. >> you keep using the 12-year-old -- >> it happened two hours after you had been confronted by chris wilson. >> i think some people may have thought that when it first happened, but i think randy, ronny, mark, those guys, i think they knew very quickly that this was not -- that this was something that i had done. >> shame for you, i asked this before issue but shame for you is an extraordinary provocation, isn't it, mr. murdaugh? >> shame for me is an extraordinary provocation? i don't like to be shamed. >> the prospect of humiliating the legacy is an extraordinary provocation to you, isn't it mr. murdaugh? >> what do you mean by an extraordinary provocation, what do you mean? >> it affects you deeply. that's your biggest concern, isn't it? >> that's not my biggest concern. >> you're a middle aged man, like me. >> i'm 54 years old. i'm not s

>>> swearing to tell the truth, rupert murdoch admitted fox lies to its viewers. "the lead" starts right now. top fox executive rupert murdoch under oath admitted election lies peddled on his network were simply a business decision, saying, quote, it is not red or blue, it is green. what else did murdoch admit? plus, when winning the battle does not end the danger. cnn treks across a booby tracked land littered with mines in ukraine. >>> but first, the supreme court on the record. hear what the justices said about president biden's plan to cancel billions of dollars in student loan debt, and whether biden even remotely has the authority to do so. welcome to "the lead." i'm jake tapper. we're starting today in the money lead in fate of president biden's plan to wipe out $400 billion, that's b with a billion now rests with the supreme court. justices today heard oral arguments in two cases challenging biden's plan. the biden administration argued yeah, they have the power to forgive financial loans in order to protect americans brought in by the covid pandemic. six

in those 12 minutes released he wasn't asked about specific lies and admitted none of that list he lied about. maybe there is more that hasn't been released. we will see. in what was released santos suggested he already said enough. >> i have made my sincere apology multiple times and earlier i said it. i thoroughly apologized for lying about my education and embellishing the resume. i made that very clear. i don't know what more can be said other than admitted it. is there anything more humbling and humiliating than admitting that on national television? >> there is. there is something more humiliating that you lied about your education and embellishing your resume. admitting you lied publicly, privately and personally to nearly everyone for a very long time. that would be more humbling and humiliating if you did it and you haven't and if you were capable of being humiliated which seems unlikely because you seem utterly incapable of feeling shame. when asked what he would have done different lie, i would have just fought like hell to get the nomination. at the end he said this. >> i ha

the flood of lies in the state of union speech. the government, it's not that they lie, but they have gotten too comfortable lying to us all the time. they lie, they lie some more, then they demand you believe the lies. if you question the lies, the army of fact checkers are picking at your heals. this piece in the "wall street

those lies trapped him into repeating the lies over and over and over again throughout the investigation. murdaugh at one point even quoting the poet walter scott on direct examination. oh, what a tangled web we weave he told his attorney. his attorneys walking the defendants through a kashl recounting of that horrific day, his whereabouts, he showered, he said he ate in front of the television and murdaugh testified through tears that when he came become to his property, he did touch the bodies of his wife and son. he testifies he found themdead. let's go straight to diane gallagher live for us in south carolina. diane torks you first. the defense is trying, number unone, to make him sympathetic and trying to present an alternative theory of the cay us saying his son paul was repeatedly receiving threats. >> that's right. that's something that alex murdaugh told investigators multiple times, including on the initial 911 call. the first responder on the scene actually testified that it was the first thing that alex murdaugh said to him when he arrived there on june 7th, 2021. but look, w

lies about what he told to police, the lies about being at the kennel, lies about stealing money, what do you make of all of that? >> that is obviously what the prosecution is doing, trying to establish that this is an established liar. so why trust him now. when does murdaugh say he decided to lie about that? the reason was because during the initial interview with state law enforcement, he said that owen freaked him out and that is when because he says that due to his addiction to opoid, he had paranoid thoughts and he lied because owen asked him about his relationship with maggie and paul. and this is the line of questioning right before we broke for lunch, that is when this lie took hold. yesterday he testified that he kept the lie up because he had already told people and that is when he did the oh, what a tangled web we weave. and i never bothered to tell law enforcement or anybody else that this was a lie. he says until yesterday. but i anticipate after lunch that we'll get more into that. because that is the meat that the prosecution has to continue reminding the jury that up u

dangerous and damaging lies.ou're requirement to prove reckless or intentional lies in a defamation suit is did those lies result in reputational or financial damage to dominion voting systems? it feels like those questions answer themselves. >> jackie, there's something really interesting in here that i remember covering fervently around here. let me read this from their briefing, from the dominion brief. "rupert murdoch also called mitch mcconnell immediately after the election and thought it was probably true that during that call rupert murdoch asked mcconnell to ask other senior republicans to refuse to endorse trump's conspiracy theories and baseless claims of fraud." i remember after the election was called talking to phil griffin, who was still the president of this network, and i think this was when rudy was standing in front of the landscaping place and dripping with hair dye and i said this is sideshow. the person endangering country right now is mitch mcconnell by letting him cry it out. and the fact

sydney powell told lies about election fraud, and about voting systems is immediately identified as lies it is supported, as the truth that as fox even though hawks those -- fox hosts knew that sydney powell was lying. the brief today is revealing foxes 8 pm close with a 10 pm host, laura ingraham, quote, sydney powell is lying, by the way, to which more anger responded with, sydney is a complete not. no one will work with her. ditto with rudy. rupert murdoch, privately referring to the position his network -- the poison his network was spewing as, really crazy stuff. the dominion briefed concludes, fox knew, from the top down, fox knew. the dominion brief reveals the fox hosts opposition to fact checking. page 31. in their group text thread, carlson pointed hannity to a tweet by fox reporter, jackie heinrich. heinrich was fact checking a tweet by trump that mentioned dominion, and specifically mentioned hannity's and dobbs broadcasts that evening discussing dominion. heinrich, correctly, fact check the tweet pointing out that top election infrastructure officials said that there is no e

we're talking about his lies now. we're going to be talking about federal crimes and federal finance campaign violations pretty soon. >> abby, you heard congressman santos say in that softball interview that he's learned his lesson, and from now on everything is going to be above board. is there possible move that voters in his district would try to recall him? is there anything, a chance of that? >> look, i think from everything that we've seen, a lot of voters in his district are trying to put as much pressure as they can to force him into a resignation. i just don't think there's much from the mechanics of how these elections work for them to do that. there's no, sort of, you know, recall procedure like there is in some other states. so, they're really in a bind here. and they're relying on just using their voices and the bully pulpit that they have as voters. i think a lot of his voters right now feel powerless in the situation. and so do his colleagues in new york. other republicans in that state are trying to ge

this is a case that's about lies, the reaction of lies and, also about how according to the plaintiffs who are suing fox, they say they have the evidence that shows fox news after it discovered lies and after it knew what it was doing, it continued to do it. that goes to accountability. that's the opposite of, say, catching someone who is using the platform to commit defamation and removing them or removing executives who support that. so, the company here suing fox is pushing for a range of accountability, including a billion dollars plus in penalties. so, in this new deposition a lawyer asks, what should the consequences be when fox executives knowingly allow lies to be broadcast? and murdoch responds they should be reprimanded, maybe gotten rid of. now, that's striking, because what mr. murdoch is apparently trying to do is walk the line, maybe even give up certain members of his team while trying to protect the rest of the fox empire. let me tell you, it looks like rupert murdoch, who's very important in this -- he's also someone with a position where he could decide to make this c

murdoch denied fox news as a whole endorsed the lies.on host sean hannity, janine piro, and former fox host lou daubs. murdoch's deposition made public in a filing from dominion systems lawsuit against fox. that same deposition revealed murdoch called trump's election lies bull [ bleep ] and damaging. in an e-mail. >> at no point do we decide we have to pull them from air and acknowledged at a certain point this was a strategy to win back voters who had been alienated by fox news's call on projection night for joe biden. >> there was enormous panic going on inside fox news. these people were freaked out about the possibility their most extreme viewers or even core viewers would move to news max. >> reporter: news max a smaller conservative channel that constantly pushed election denial is believed by media analysts to have syphoned off viewers from fox after fox called arizona for joe biden. at that time fox kept allowing election deniers like my pillow ceo mike lindell on their air. >> actual machine, new machine election fraud. i retwe

they were lies. dozens of text messages from hosts, producers, executives at fox news, arguably the biggest promoters of the big donald trump lie and his allies, well, they're pushing all of these in the days after the 2020 election. now, texts show that these employees thought what team trump was saying was ludicrous, kooky, and complete bs, even rupert murdoch the himself, the head of fox, said, quote, really crazy stuff, and damaging. his network broadcast a press conference where ex trump lawyers, rudy giuliani and sidney powell, made allegations about hackable voting machines and other conspiracies. murdaugh, in realtime, knew what trump's lawyers were saying was wrong and false. but there's no indication that he tried to stop the network from continuing to broadcast those lies. these now disclosed messages are part of the 1. 6 billion dollar lawsuit the media giant by dominion voting systems, one of the biggest voting machine vendors in the country. the lawsuit alleges that fox knowingly aired

in that case, lies about ukraine, about january 5th, more lies about the election, and the results are just devastating. and so the thing that i don't understand of course is, what do you do with all of that money? really, is it not enough, does murdoch not have enough money? i just really can't fathom it, i don't want to believe for some people, that there is nothing else in their life, other than the money, not country, patriotism, not the love of the truth, nothing but money. but this is apparently what is all driving this fox machine. >> and by the, way this so-called drop in the ratings at fox, it was not a big drop. it is still going to be, still going to make millions from fox, even if that ratings level had stayed where was when there was some slight drop in it. you, at the january 6th committee, showed us what the fox hosts were saying on january 6th itself. all of them believed, sean hannity, checker carlson, laura ingraham, they all believed that it was in donald trump's power to stop what was happening at the capitol immediately, they've all texted the white house trying to

did the jury buy his story about why he lied to police on the night of the killings? >>> welcome to our viewers in the united states and around the world. wolf blitzer is off today. i'm brianna keilar and you're "the situation room." >> we begin our coverage with the latest on russia's war against ukraine officially one year old from kyiv to moscow, cnn's correspondents are covering the conflict from every angle as the war enters the second year. let's get to clarissa ward. president zelenskyy is talking to reporter and has a speech. what's the mood on the ground following remarks? >> reporter: i think there is provocation today could be attacks. it's been quiet for the first time there is no air raid sirens and the message coming from president zelenskyy today was actually, brianna quite upbeat. he said he believes it's possible that ukraine would be able to win this war this year. others would say that's an optimistic timeline given the state of affairs and how it's grinding away at a stalemate in the east. he gave a long press conference, president zelenskyy mostly

, lied about the russian dossier, lied again and again and again. now, why is there a different standard for santos than there is for schiff? as a republican, i get a little tired of the news media siding with whatever left-wing kook comes along, including the current president, hiding hunter biden's various and sundry lies and foreign dealings and telline biden's secret documents which were found before the election and then covered up. of soha i'm very not, i'm unwilling to deal with santos as an isolated case. you get biden to agree how often he lies, we'll talk to santos. but i would say to house republicans, do not get sucked into this duel game where you have a president that's a lie liar, the chairman of the house intelligence committee that's a liar, but, boy, your freshman candidate -- >> do you really mean to equate the lies of george santos with adam schiff? >> who? adam schiff? >> yeah. >> yeah. adam schiff knowingly as chairman of the intelligence committee, knowingly lied to the american people again and again and again about theer pre

get the lies through the moment. to take in 6 days. 6 days to get through one he says he has b been addicted too to, nearly impossible. nancy: the other thing with financial data he stole over 8 million dollars that we know of from clients and his law firm to support this opioid addiction. to you anne emerson, there a point when jurors of physically turning away. there was one point in testimony the prosecutor was tracking his steps on the phone and asked if he was running on a treadmill. >> both of those were happening. one of thing to talk about jury is you know, i do think we hav have -- excellent jury that has been paying attention, you notice body language when a couple may not know wanting to look at him while hig he is talking, what you said, that 4 minutes, when high was doing 3 times faster, it just does not make sense. nancy: guys we'll all be back here in about 10 hours for testimony, to resume. we will be live at "fox nation," joining you as we wait for the -- join us as we wait for justice to unfolded. ♪

the -- to this day, the network still spreads trump's election lies. and kari lake's election lies. and christine karamo's election lies. so it's no surprise, then, that in arizona, there's now a network of activists who believe that u.s. elections are so unreliable that they're trying to convince supervisors and maricopa county and phoenix to throw out all the elections that republicans lost in 2022. yeah. all of them. the minds of people have been so poisoned by republican candidates, yet republican politicians, and, yes republican news media outlets, and i promise you this, it's not gonna stop anytime soon. joining me now is my sunday night panel. -- associate editor at the boston globe, and marissa, msnbc columnist. it's great to have both of you with us. rene, i'll start with you. you know, this newly-released court filing on the dominion lawsuit really suggests that foxhound in on these fraud claims for rating boosts, and out of fear that they might lose viewers to more conservative media outlets that were emerging at the time, and even pandering to the more extreme right. you

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he lied to everybody. he admitted this morning he never told a single soul that he was at the kennel even though he had months and months of discussions with other individuals up until he took the stand. >> neil: how did he explain that, mercedes? understand that these events were because of what. i don't know why he didn't explain that prior. i guess in the bigger picture, i'm curious what you make of how he did and whether it was wise for the defense to put him or t if it all about -- both you and ted teach me many, many times, it's all about convincing one juror. do you think his performance on the stand had a layer of doubt for at least one juror? >> well, there was two explanations to why there was this inconsistency. whether or not he was at the kennel. first he said it's because i have a paranoid mind because i'm an opioid addict. as his testimony went on and kudos to a viewer, ted cohen, thank you for this great e-mail you sent. he testified and said what a tangled web we weave. hey didn't finish t

news hosts endorsed false election fraud claims saying any fox news executives who knowingly allowed lies to be broadcast on the air should be reprimanded or maybe got rid of saying in a deposition, i would have liked us to be stronger in denouncing it in hindsight. jon karl standing by. >>> tonight the next question after that toxic train derailment in ohio. where should that toxic waste be taken? the new fight now, states blocking it, and in that community tonight questions over the drinking water. our reporter with erin brockovich. >>> the war in ukraine and the intense fighting under way tonight for control of a key city, and this evening, the u.s. warning to china not to help russia with weapons or ammunition. what the state department said about this today and what china is now saying nit. ian pannell in ukraine. >>> tonight the former american swimming star found dead in the u.s. virgin islands and what we know so far. >>> the new warning tonight about a popular artificial sweetener and the reported risk of heart attack and stroke. >>> and anyone who loves march madness loves siste

and i lied about being down there. and i'm so sorry that i did. >> so there's a lot to unpack from that dramatic testimony so let's dig in i want to start with the attorney suzanne williams she knows south carolina jew judicial system inside and out thanks so much for joining the program so there was a lot of tears emotion why did he take the ?and did he do it because they move location the trial but he has roots in the community. so do you think that he decided to take the stand because of that connection because it's a big risk? >> well alec murdaugh is fourth generation trial lawyer. and i think having that background he knows that jurors want to hear from the accused. and i think he uses that to his benefit. >> do you think it was effective because i have to tell you someone that's been following this case. that thinks there's a lot of evidence working against him, that testimony seem convincing. >> well, the jurors are going to have to make the final decision on this but his basic premise is, i lied about a lot of

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carolina attorney denying he killed his wife and son, but then stunning the courtroom, admitting he lied to police about his alibi that night the paranoid thoughts he said he was havin and the moment murdaugh broke down as he described finding the bodies then the prosecution's turn the tough questions he faced under cross-examination. >>> also tonight, the deadly winter storm on the move more than a million customers without power. in the midwest, a downed power line killing a firefighter. a parking garage collapsing under snow. the new threat in the west rare blizzard warnings in southern california al roker is here >>> new clues in the toxic train derailment in ohio. the ntsb saying it was 100% preventable the preliminary report finding an alarm went off just before the wreck. what investigators say about the crew's actions and the potential cause. >>> the shooting spree in florida a tv reporter and a 9-year-old girl killed new body cam of police arresting the suspect. the new details. >>> and the emmy winning star of "abbott elementary," sheryl lee ralph, on the obstacles she has over

but murdoch himself is saying, no, they endorsed these lies.ewhere, you know, in private e-mails that dominion has obtained, for instance, murdoch is calling those lies, he says they're damaging to the country. he at one point referred to them as bs. so it's very clear that behind the scenes, fox executives, fox stars knew that these lies were not true, but they continued to peddle it to their viewers, and it seems, because of a financial incentive. >> yeah, they were concerned about their competitors who were in that moment being endorsed by trump, siphoning viewers away. you know, oliver, the other part of this is the way that these filings seem to show that this organization, fox, was really gearing themselves towards helping the trump campaign, the republican party, they talked about, you know, their efforts to help republicans win the senate, focusing on the runoff campaigns. tell us about all of that. >> yeah, there's so many revelations, abby, in this filing, it's impossible to detail it in one segment. but there are a few i want to high

actually, he lied about that too. >> he lied about that too.ything about the era we're in now, mike? >> absolutely it does. you can get away with almost anything if you continue to keep saying it, keep saying it, you can get away with almost anything. the other thing it says is the psychology of this guy. he's clearly filled with self-loathing. if i have been told this by professionals. if you watch his behavior, if you listen to the lies, he hates who he is so he's going to continually come up with a new person, and he does it multiple times. >> i completely understand why he hates what he is and who he is, because we as american citizens should hate folks like that. i'm not here -- we're having this conversation and we brought up political issues. i'm not really here for that. to me, it's not a political issue. that's what i get mad about people. it's politics, politics. no, we're talking about a core decency you're supposed to have as a human being when you're representing people other than yourself. you're supposed to be bigger than that. i

now, he had to admit the lies. he had to admit it, which is the same reason he had to take the stand. there was cooperation of virtually everything that puts him at the scene, puts his voice at the scene. the jury has no question other than that guy did it. so you personalize this monster. they have him on there when you listen to the 911 call. it sounds like he's in tears. you look at him and he's end here. you say to yourself, "well, the truth is, baby he's not so bad." the prosecutor is coming across as a pitbull, which is good. but this guy knows exactly how to handle the prosecutor. >> dana: all right. >> he is screaming. what is going on there? >> dana: it looks like the pitbull is going after him. >> tyrus it has been enjoyable to listen to the commentary off camera. >> tyrus: yeah, well, i'm not repeating that. i look at this and the pitbull as you call him, he was leaning to the side with his hand in his pocket pair that was pretty powerful to me. he was up in his space. when you are trying to razzle someb

not telling bold face lies. in just a few minutes we'll be speaking to former mueller investigation prosecutor, andrew weissmann, about today's finally. meanwhile, president biden is working hard to ramp up his domestic agenda after his trip to ukraine. this week, holding strategy sessions with democrats in the house and senate. today biden sent out this morning about house republicans, and budget cuts. quote, it is not just your social security that may hang in the balance. it is your health care to. tonight, the president said democrats need to do more to message their accomplishments. >> we have to, first of all, let people know what we've done. even in the communities. they don't know all that we've done. we have to make it clear. we have got to talk about it. spread the word, defend our progress. finish the job. >> the white house is also fighting back against house gop investigations. and pr reports that they have created a, quote, war room to handle all the inquiries. what, that let's get smarter with the

his latest is why fox lied to its viewers. much for joining us tonight. i don't know if you noticed, but i don't allow rupert murdoch's semantic infiltration to get into my references to fox. i never say that word that he put after fox, because it is a lie. i just call it fox and everybody knows what i'm talking about, but i understand why you use their formal title. what did you find about fox that you didn't know before reading the dominion disclosures about them? >> well, i think it's more what this filing confirmed. there was some sense before this was released that fox was concerned about other outlets stealing their audience because they were not being enthusiastic enough about embracing the false election fraud conspiracy that had become popular on the right. and, you know, ideological outlets, you know, they had some sense of what their audience wants. and they try to give it to them. but they generally do not lie or feed misleading information to that audience deliberately. it's more a question of, you know, i'm feedi

story is about this push that we need in america, the push for accountability as we face political lies and violence. so let me start here tonight. do you remember where you were when joe biden beat donald trump? do you remember how that entire race came down to that official call on the weekend? there was rejoicing. there was spontaneous crowds gathered in the nation. people making their own signs, walking around. it was kind of a big moment. it was unlike as a reaction, any recent president losing an election. do you remember the road to that call? because the election actually took several days to be formally resolved, but the key to that resolution i'm about to show you, when the writing was on the wall, was when trump lost a state that he almost certainly needed for any hope of victory. it was arizona. among insiders, people on the campaign, people who follow this closely, steve kornacki, people counting every state, everybody knew, you lose arizona and you're donald trump, you're the loser of the race. and it was actually an arm of fox news, not tucker carlson, not the hosts being

they lied to us about russia, they lied to us about covid, they're lying to us about east palestine.on't like lies. >> well, they do, and that's the problem. they have -- you know, sean, when you look at this, the pathological hatred for trump is truly sick. it's among the left, it's in the media, it's in part of the republican establishment. i've never seen anything like this before. it is so pauling. what did the man do other than get elected to office? did many great things for many people in this country, particularly the middle class. he secured the border, took on russians and chinese and iranians, very good foreign policy. the economy was bustling along until the wuhan virus and really at the end it was shooting up very, very nicely. look at this mess. what the hell is it? i'll tell you what it is. they didn't expect him to win. they figured hillary clinton would be the third term for obama. they pushed their radical marxist agenda all across the country and he stopped them. he stopped them by being president and he pushed back. republicans go along with this, you oh at mcconn

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