he looked at lina khan there. key antitrust enforcers. >> and you acknowledge they're two different strategies. >> they are. and jim, i do want to talk a bit more broadly about that, but i do want to point out as well, an important case coming up for the ftc, of course, is one we've talked about a lot, which is amgen trying to complete that deal to acquire horizon for some -- what was it -- what is it? >> it's very large. >> i didn't write it down. anyway, i'll get to it in a second. they're trying to complete a deal announced in december of 2022. they're potentially going to court to do that because the ftc is suing them. september 11th is when that is supposed to begin. yesterday, amgen responded in a voluminous, well, actually, it wasn't that voluminous, but it was chock-full of really good quotes, response to the attempts of the ftc to get an injunction to stop the transaction. here's a few things i thought were worth sharing from that brief. "plaintiff's case hinges on a theory never before adopted by a court

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guest: unfortunately, what lina khan want to do is amass more control within her agency and have herchoices, have the government make the choices instead of under traditional republican free market principles, have the market make those choices so that is the concern as a republican, as a traditional publican, have the market make the choices and have the businesses make their choices, not have lina khan pick the winners and losers and that was the beauty, the consumer welfare standard, during the obama and clinton administration as well as the bush administration and reagan administration, those decisions were made by the market and that worked out well so the companies in the market were making those decisions very well and i think it worked better than bringing it in house . that is what you have people like larry summers, a democrat, as well as republicans of agreeing that those decisions should be made in the market, not brought in house by an ftc liberal like lina khan controlling and deciding the winners. host: we will hear from morgan in pennsylvania, democratic caller. calle

and the ftc under lina khan, it's clear she wants to prevent big tech from moving into entire new industries, you know, by anti-competitive practices, but she's losing a lot of cases. so i think what might happen is that regulators might force politicians to actually change the law, and in europe that's happening because in the u.s., regulators have to wait until a company actually commits anti-competitive practices before they can do anything. but in europe under the new digital markets act, the europeans aren't interested in that. they don't want to go to core. they want to classify certain companies like microsoft and google as gatekeepers, and then you have to follow certain rules. >> it's always great to talk to you. >>> ahead here on "worldwide exchange" we have your big money movers and a look at yesterday's retail wreck and what investors could be thinking this morning. dad, we got this. we got this. we got this. we got this. we got this. yay! we got this. we got this! life is for living. we got this! let's partner for all of it. edward jones >>> all right. back to "worldwide exchang

i think everybody is going through the motions here, the ftc has been on this course ever since lina khanas nominated as commissioner by the biden administration. she made her name arguing the amazon was a monopoly that behaved competitively. i think the company is assuming ever since then this day was coming. caroline: you made some rather nice sporting analogies. outline if you will, remind us, we are the key argument you think could land, could stick? >> it is interesting because unlike other companies, microsoft in the 90's, google today, amazon does not have the kind of commanding market share that we think of as a monopoly. in some cases it is just a couple percentage points of overall retail, it is high 40's in e-commerce in general, the ftc is likely to find this market as u.s. retail market places the likes of ebay or walmart's marketplace. in this respect amazon does have the kind of percentage market share we think of as a monopoly, high 70%. what the ftc is likely to argue is that the situation is not bad for consumers which would be the traditional way that you analyze antitr

. >> i think that deal is going to be trashed by lina khan. >> it's easy to say that because, of coursethey're already suing. so, yes. >> but it's putting pressure on what i think is a very good deal for people for americans. >> people who have examined that deal, jim, do not believe the government has a very strong case to be made here for stopping it on any grounds there is a belief -- there's a belief -- and i have -- i've reported previously on talks about a settlement, you may remember, between -- and they broke down but there are many who believe prior to any trial, i think it's late september we're talking potentially, you would see it again, a resumption of efforts because the staff may not want to see this thing go to court and lose again >> but remember, amgen has made pledges they won't do this rebate situation >> that's right. >> and lina khan says -- the head of the ftc -- says, that's meaningless. when i speak to people within the ftc, they always say the same thing hey, you vetdoted for us. that's what you get. >> i think it's a little bit of a different -- more complicat

, and that's what i think that in many ways this combination of a jonathan kanter at justice and lina khanombat is deals that were -- that would have let that go through but i think that that was an example that worked, and i have to tell you that getting a customer, i actually suggested, okay, this is a little heresy, that t-mobile give out the vision pro in a buy now, pay later. >> i know you have and we've come back, both of us, saying it's $3,500 >> well, if mike was -- >> three times the cost of that. >> well, i mean, buy now, pay later for a device for it's very competitive, trying to get customers, and this thing that can deal with apple, and i think it makes so much sense >> we are going to get affirm tonight. we'll see what the attitude is about buy now, pay later >> i think affirm -- i think max will do it i think max will pull it off >> i'm curious to know what you think of -- this crazy week in retail, with blow-ups from foot locker, petco this morning, peloton, dollar tree, burl, and yet, a&f, guess. >> williams sonoma wasn't that great. everybody thought that was shooting fis

remember, lina khan, if you go back to her seminal piece that she co-wrote, said these deals are justenrich shareholders, which by the way, you know what they are for? enriching shareholders. >> potentially. you would also think -- >> u.s. steel needs -- >> -- more competitive. i got 40% of flat-rolled steel and 60% of auto grade. that would be the cleveland cliffs in the u.s. >> so, the overlap there is bad, but i think it's -- >> those are big market shares. >> i just think that there's no need to have -- i think they're against consolidation, kind of like what they felt like with the penguin case. >> oh, random house. >> yes. where stephen king testified. i'm on page, like, 400 of "the outsider." i don't want to finish it. he's so great. >> jim, you cared all about the small deal in the permian. permian resources buying something called earth stone energy. do you know any of these companies? you know every single company. >> i do know permian resources. i'm surprised -- the only companies that matter in the permian is diamondback. >> delaware basin independent -- >> they just go by

they're aerojet's largest customer ultimately regulators allowed the deal to happen because even lina khan'srade commission needs at least a ina of an excuse if they're going to take action and & in this case they didn't have a fig leaf. the transaction goes through i bring up all this history because it sure seems like it would have been a gigantic win for l3harris a company i've liked ever since it was create bid the merger of the old l3 technologies which i also liked for a long time, and harris corporation. this company made no secret of its desire to challenge the big five defense contractors and that's lockheed, raytheon, rtx as they're known now, boeing, north rohm grum sxn general dynamics l3harris makes all sorts of electronics, communications equipment, all high-tech stuff think ibt graited mission systems, intelligence reconnaissance, space, avionic, electric warfare, precision engagement sensors and drones. the aerojet rocketdyne purchase gives them a growth engine with respect to areas that have gotten a huge boost from the war in ukraine like javelin missiles i think it's a big

count it out this time as we're once again back to laura martin's dream >> oh, yeah, i talked to lina khanesterday she thinks it's a great idea the ftc would block disney merging with illinois toolworks. >> yeah. i just -- you know, this won't go away for any number of reasons. but you really imagine apple wanting to be in the theme parks business >> no. but i imagine apple wanting -- >> there are so many other avenues for them that i could imagine them going down before i would see them making -- by the way, would become, even though -- it still would be a small part of the overall, and even if you bought this thing for 220 bill, it would still be less than 10% of your market cap. >> true. you can't move the needle. >> the apple car, you got to imagine that's a way more compelling opportunity for example, you want to do something a little off the apple car, at least, you can imagine that theme parks and what >> i didn't say that why are you looking at me? i'm focused on friday night's game between philadelphia and court for major league soccer. when we have vision pro, you can watch, like

and the way we are right now with lina khan and the ftc, i would be afraid to do any of this stuff.ell, i appreciate the sentiment. but i think in this area, we have reasonably clear rules of the road on behaviors for competition policy. the three major agencies, the department of justice, the consumer financial protection bureau, and the ftc issued a joint statement on ai, acknowledging the areas of competition remain the three big constraints. access to data, access to compute, and frankly, human capital, the talent necessary to make all of this work for the rest of us. so the cops on the beat are paying attention. they've issued that joint statement. be careful here, don't overconcern around the level of sne investment. more focus should be taken on the actions taken. and right now there's no smoking gun. there's no actions that i have seen that suggest that these large platforms are constraining competition in accessing these resources. if there's evidence of the sosourt, that is the type of thing that the existing laws on the books today would squash. >> i guess, anish , there