lincoln, you're not doing enough. lincoln, you're doing too much. and i think the thing that strikes me about this early period of 1861 is, yeah, there was succession, obviously states had successed but the general feeling lincoln had and most of the country had was this wasn't going to work. there are too many unionists around, too much love for the united states. so, it's going to fail. well, then succession happens and it works. well, there won't be a war. we just -- americas would not fight one against the other. well, then war comes. well, it's not going to be much of a war because we know that the other side is -- you know, the north is a bunch of shopkeepers and, you know, they're not going to -- with some famous southern said, you know, you can slap a yankee in the face. he may sue you but he won't fight. so, there was that kind of attitude. >> another slur, i might add. >> and so you have this whole idea that it's going to happen. well, no, it's not going to happen. if it's going to happen, it's going to be easy and quick. so, consequently,

lincoln, always controversial, mrs. lincoln. this picture was taken of her by brady, 1861. she theoretically managed the house. one of the great problems mrs. lincoln had was she was not a young woman anymore and she was following probably the woman considered the most brilliant hostess of the 19th century at the white house, harriet lane. harriet lane had been in england with her uncle, james buchanan, at st. james. she knew how to do it all. she -- mrs. grimsley claims that mrs. lincoln introduced fresh flowers. she didn't. harriet lane did. and there were fresh flowers. they had dances. one of the kind of dances they held, they used to put crash down in the east room and have an artist come in with colored pencils and do pictures of it and then they would dance the picture off. jefferson davis claimed at one time that he had the u.s. flag on his floor and danced it off. but that was always denied. so mrs. lincoln had a hard row to hoe. but in addition, she wasn't very good at it. she couldn't get along with the white house staff at all. the white house staff is unlike an

lincoln's white house was the stage and setting of the lincoln triumph and the lincoln melodrama. the stage was a very old house by american standards, occupied 61 years when lincoln took office, or just about 61 years. it was one of the largest residences in the united states, probably the largest, if you could compare it to a private house. george washington had built the white house. the british invaders in 1814 burned it down. surely news that got some way into the ear of a 5-year-old lincoln. james madison and james monroe rebuilt the white house. and except for some new furnishings now and then and innovations for comfort, this is the house lincoln entered to live the rest of his life and on march the 4th, 1861. no president to come would be more closely identified with the white house than abraham lincoln. it is very likely that had lincoln's presidential history not taken place in the white house, there would be no white house today to stand proud as a world symbol of the american presidency. the house was threatened after lincoln's time on many occasions. already in 1867,

lincoln came to understand this. these guys really don't know as much as they think they know, and in lincoln reading their books, reading the book of my hero henry halak, came to understand, hey, i can figure this out just as well as they can. maybe better. how come they haven't considered this and this and this? maybe this lawyer's mind in this one instance, at least, played an important role, frank. >> you mean lincoln. >> i'm from baltimore, maryland. and this is something that i've been thinking of for two days, since i heard jack davis' presentation, and it's been reiterated today. so lee, the reluctant traitor, as you called him, agonizes about his loyalty to virginia versus his loyalty to the united states. i imagine that was true for a lot of officers and the like. during the course of the war, this is foreshadowing, the south always had problems coming up with a viable national strategy, where they always came up with a viable national strategy with the north. to what extent were the southerners dealing wit

lincoln always controversial mrs. lincoln. this picture was taken of her. >> there was a crash in the east room, artist coming in colored pencils and do pictures on it. jefferson davis claimed that he had the u.s. flag on his floor but that was always denied. so mrs. lincoln had a hard row to hoe but she wasn't very good at it. she couldn't get a long with the white house staff at all. the staff was unlike any other. they were the most unlikely people you could imagine to run the white house. they flattered her. they weren't allowed to go in there. this appears to me, otherwise i can't imagine how. they were in two parts of the house. and mrs. polk had built one under the game us stair that lincoln used to thread it up through the house. he used that stair to get out on the lawn and they were there. that is all they had was those. there was running water in all the rooms up stairs and in the pantry and it was potomac water. and the faucet faced you when you looked at the sink and you turned it one way and the water came from s

lincoln's office is on the second. the other side the rooms face which you will see the living quarters which were on the side, and there were seven rooms, to their great surprise become popular, and confirmed much of the lincoln image. here earlier in the war

lincoln was a primary target for much of their frustrations. due to his distance and the impersonal nature of the executive office, young women had to find sort of closer more intimate objects in which to project their fear and their anger. of course that came in the form of those physically close to them. in particular, african-american slaves that the family owned. foremost in their minds in the early stages of secession and war was the state of the enslaved as the news of an abolitionist president spread throughout thein country cat slave communication network in the south. thu feared that an election of an -- could insight rebellion among their slaves. this, of course, is coming on the heels of a very big plot to help the slaves rebel and that was the 1859 raid on harper's ferry in virginia. that's, of course, i'm sure as many of you know, that's when an armed band of abolitionists by led by john brown seized an armory in hopes of sparking a slave rebellion. and although brown's plan failed, the raid just fueled white southerners' fear that

but lincoln also defended himself. it's interesting, lincoln defended how difficult these decisions and choices had been. they met in the second time in august of 1864. '64 during the overland campaign the incredible stalemate in virginia, et cetera, et cetera it, lincoln fears he's not going to be re-elected. that's a very real fear in mid and late summer. he's facing mcclellan, of course, in the fall election. he invites frederick douglass representative of black america to come to the white house and among other things, asked douglass to become the leader after effort in cooperation with the union army and the war department to funnel as many slaves as possible out of the border states, out of the upper south behind union lines and into the north if possible. a grandiose plan that god knows how this would ever work but to get as many slaves out of the upper south as possible before election day in november because if he loses the election, he fears that mcclellan and the democrats will turn around the policy of eman

lincoln knew it was inheriting hundreds of older, poorly built homes. while bliss denies a systemic mold problem, he admits maintenance fell short. >> i understand why some of the families are frustrated in this issue. i'd be frustrated, too, with some of the things that went on. we've made mistakes and we're working through those mistakes. >> reporter: but that's not good enough for the families. lincoln is now fighting a lawsuit by shelley and others that claims the company's failure to properly maintain their homes caused them serious health problems. >> you know, we're sending our men and women to go fight for this country. we don't ask for a mansion on the hill. we just ask for a safe place to lay our head at night that's not going to make us sick and it's not going to make our family sick. that's all we ask. >> reporter: when we come back -- was lincoln trying to save costs, to cut corners? >> 100% yes. hey, dad, you think i could drive? i'll tell you what -- when we stop to fill it up. ♪ ♪ [ son ] you realize, it's gotta run out sometime. [ male

but as lincoln passed and the new year approached, lincoln made good on his promise. but before and after lincoln's stroke, lee had professed his abhorrence of slavery. as we know ever in the abstract and always conditioned by his conviction that his racial assumptions, racist assumptions really, that african-americans occupied some evolutionary level below that of white people, but in this instance irony attends the fact that lee himself became an emancipator and issued his own liberating proclamation three days before lincoln in 1862. the objects of lincoln's -- of lee's proclamation were the slaves once owned by george washington park custsa who was lee's father-in-law. in accord with his father-in-law's will, january 9th, 1862, lee the executor of the estate did, quote, emancipate and forever set free from slavery, unquote, the slaves at arlington, the white house plantation, which was one on the york river, and romancote, which is in king william county on the monkey river, as well as the slaves that lee had hired out in other places, that is, rented out, as well

>> did lincoln and douglas meet? yes. >> and i'd be interested, what was lincoln's impressing? what did lincoln state or say about douglass? >> well, yes, they met. they met three times, almost a fourth. to make a long story short, the first is in august of 1863 at the white house. not by invitation. douglass kind of forced his way in on first visit. he went to washington. he got notes of introduction. eventually from the secretary of war as well as senator pomeroy and others. he went to essentially levy a protest against the methods by which black troops were being recruited. he was himself a recruiter of black troops by then, august '63. he went to protest against unequal pay for black soldiers, the lack of any commissions for black soldiers, the treatment of black soldiers, et cetera, et cetera. he had been very open in public in criticizing lincoln and the administration for this. they had an extraordinary meeting. douglas came away awed is the only word you can use by lincoln. by how lincoln treated him so much like an equal. in fact, there's a speech douglass gives after

lincoln"? household that had slaves and she was raised by an african-american woman who was an enslaved domestic at her home. that could be how that rumor started. i don't think i'll get into the hereditary question but there's no doubt that they -- forcing -- forbidding enslaved people from learning to read or write was a horrendous act of sort of intellectual violence that had repercussions for generations. host: one of our viewers saying speak to us about the coming slave revolt before the emancipation. what was president lincoln facing from the slaves, if anything? guest: there's no question that slaves were leaving their plantations because they were managed mostly by women in the age in the south and that there was "a problem" meaning that these people had no status except what was called for, they had no legal status and lincoln needed to create a status for them. i think that was part of the issue. host: in your book, you write although lincoln remains among the most widely portrayed im

it was in springfield, lincoln's home. lincoln was in springfield on that particular day. that is the first possible instance that they may have crossed paths. that's important because menard comes into connection with the lincoln administration later. but this particular speech that he gives establishes him as a rising star in the abolitionist movement of the united states. he is invited to take a role as an assistant editor for an abolitionist newspaper out of boston by james redpath. the newspaper was called "the pine and palm" at the time when it was published from around 1860 to '61. he appears writing several articles, normally opinion pieces on slavery. he publishes one in 1860 that's an address to the free people of illinois. and it's an attack on the fugitive slave law. he's a very gifted writer in terms of his use of illusion, and he does not compromise in his stances. menard says in this article that the fugitive slave law has turned the whole north into one vast hunting ground for men and chased us to the shores of canada, if we seek to attain freedom. he goes

>> did lincoln and douglas meet? yes. >> and i'd be interested, what was lincoln's impressing? what did lincoln state or say about douglass? >> well, yes, they met. they met three times, almost a fourth. to make a long story short, the first is in august of 1863 at the white house. not by invitation. douglass kind of forced his way in on first visit. he went to washington. he got notes of introduction. eventually from the secretary of war as well as senator pomeroy and others. he went to essentially levy a protest against the methods by which black troops were being recruited.

lincoln had received all these letters asking him, cajoling him, and lincoln himself comes down to hampton roads on may 6 to survey the military situation, and he and secretary solomon p. chase and stanton will actually cruise around hampton roads and he's found a spot where the union army can land to capture norfolk. once norfolk is gone, the confederate ship is untenable. lincoln orders this attempt to be made. in fact, lincoln actually gets to see the merrimac come down the river to investigate some shelling that the union maybe is doing, and there's conflicting reports. the union reports say that merrimac shows up, we withdrew trying to lure her further down so that vanderbilt and the other big rams could get a shot at her where the confederates say, well, the union saw the merrimac come and go fled. they all went to hide under the guns of fortress monroe. the union landing does take place, norfolk does fall, and on may 11 the confederates blow up the merrimac. in fact, solomon p. chase, who finds it sometimes reluctant to praise abraham lincoln writes to his daughter saying, if lincol

named abraham lincoln. >> abraham lincoln. >> abraham lincoln. >> a guy from my home state, a guy witheard. >> abraham lincoln. >> abraham lincoln. >> and what lincoln said was that through our government we should do together what we cannot do as well for ourselves. that's the definition of a smart government. >> lincoln understood it. >> abraham lincoln understood it. >> lincoln understood that. you understand it. >> bill: no, i don't. here now to advance the tore juliet huddy. all right. abraham lincoln obviously, i think the best president we have ever had. >> you wrote a book, i believe on mr. lincoln. >> bill: killing lincoln. >> best seller. >> bill: thank you for the plug. >> you are welcome. >> bill: the president is trying to get either in lincoln's corner or get lincoln in his corner how do you see it. >> he is trying to to get the country in his corner by referencing republic presidents. he he brings up lincoln a total of 2009 a total of 80 times. you only saw a small portion. >> bill: in various speeches. >> public speeches. >> 80 times since 2009. >> public events. who kn

speaking of lincoln. i was able to see that, and you just did an amazing job. >> really, do you think of presidents the whole time you are there, and there is great comfort in that. you think of all of the other challenges that other presidents faced and our countries faced and how we overcame that challenge. it was very comforting after september 11th to know we can overcome this too and that we'll move on and while peace may not be forever, neither is war, and there is a great continuity of living in a house where all of the presidents, every one of them, except for george washington had lived before you. so one of the things you do, you live with the effects of all the people that live before you. you live with their decorating, with their taste, their choice in -- in furniture, or in china or in decorative arts. all the things that were acquired by the white house during other terms. and slowly, i moved different pieces from the storage and set up each room and at one point during the second term, we

named abraham lincoln. >> abraham lincoln. >> abraham lincoln. >> a guy from my home state, a guy with lincoln. >> abraham lincoln. >> and what lincoln said was that through our government we should do together what we cannot do as well for ourselves. that's the definition of a smart government. >> lincoln understood it. >> abraham lincoln understood it. >> lincoln understood that. you understand it. >> bill: no, i don't. here now to advance the tore juliet huddy. all right. abraham lincoln obviously, i think the best president we have ever had. >> you wrote a book, i believe on mr. lincoln. >> bill: killing lincoln. >> best seller. >> bill: thank you for the plug. >> you are welcome. >> bill: the president is trying to get either in lincoln's corner or get lincoln in his corner how do you see it. >> he is trying to to get the country in his corner by referencing republic presidents. he he brings up lincoln a total of 2009 a total of 80 times. you only saw a small portion. >> bill: in various speeches. >> public speeches. >> 80 times since 2009. >> public events. who knows what he said

and he managed to get along fine with lincoln during that period and he enjoyed abe lincoln's propensity to entertain people around a fire in a little tavern or a hostel around the way with anecdotes based on his experience as a backwoods lawyer. but when lincoln was elevated to president and mcclellan became his subordinate, then the essential, social impediments if you will that mcclellan took with him from his upper middle-class background began to show. and he began to regard lincoln as an interloper. we would not i think in our u.s. history see this again in such a striking degree until general george douglas macarthur in the korean war lost faith in harry truman, whose senior rank in the u.s. army had been captain of artillery in world war i as macarthur had been before world war ii the chief of staff and then subsequently the commander of all army forces in the pacific and again in korea. when the generals forget that in our country the constitution requires that we support the constitution but we also follow the orders of our civilian heads, they are -- they're going to eventuall

johnson served as vice president under president lincoln, and succeeded him when lincoln was assassinated. here's park guide daniel luther portraying president johnson and telling the story of how andrew johnson met abraham lincoln. >> in 1847 i went into the 30th congress for my third term representing the people of the first district, and while i was there i met an extremely tall raw-boned young man representing the prairie state of illinois, and his name was abraham lincoln. and we fell into conversation, and i introduced myself and told him that i was from northeast tennessee, and he replied that he had relatives in northeast tennessee and perhaps i knew some of them. he identified his great uncle isaac as having owned a farm up on the watauga on which his father thomas lincoln had worked as something as a hired hand in the 1790s and identified another great uncle, a gentleman by the name of mordecai, who lived in the town of greeneville, to which i replied, greeneville is my hometown, and your great uncle mordecai, in fact, performed a wedding ceremony for me and my wife eliza in 182

lincoln, mrs. keckly established the contraband aid association which was to raise money and help slaves, former slaves who had crossed the lines and made to it washington, d.c. mrs. lincoln gave money. and supported elizabeth keckly in her efforts to do this. certainly gave her moral support. and there's a beautiful little wooden inkwell when abraham lincoln died mrs. keckly asked for a memento of the president and mrs. lincoln gave her this inkwell. there are also beautiful pieces. we all associate mary lincoln because the stories one remembers of mary lincoln were the elegance and the spending and the possessions and we do have some beautiful pieces that came through the family. a beautiful diamond and gold enameled wristwatch, china. but also the kind of thing you save, a scrap of fabric from the redecoration of the red room that was saved by the decorating firm and eventually found its way to the museum so we know -- we get a little bit of an idea of the fabric that was used in the room. and w

and his name was abraham lincoln. and we fell into conversation and i introduced myself and told him that i was from northeast tennessee and he replied that he had relatives in northeast tennessee and perhaps i knew some of them. he identified his great uncle isaac as having owned a farm. up on the watogga. at which his father thomas lincoln had worked as something of a hired hand in the 1790s. and he also identified another great uncle, a gentleman named mordecai, who lived in the town of greenville. to which i replied greenville is my hometown. and your great uncle mordecai performed the wedding ceremony for me and my wife, elisa, in 1827. as well as mordecai and i served on the town council together in 1829, and i reassured mr. lincoln that he was in good hands in terms of politics that his great uncle had gained a great many more votes than i had. but like many young men who came into congress at the time, we went in there with goals. and each of us had a cherished goal that we wanted to achieve in that congress.