experience in the principle behind what equality is what this kind of legal mind and ultimately the lincoln douglasebates. and then he has this ability also to condense, for example, the second inaugural, condense these very short pithy speech is the essence of the american principle. and so i think discourse is really important for both historical actors and for writers. >> lawyer in a storytelling. >> i have a question -- [inaudible] >> i guess it could be said -- [inaudible] >> i think one of the things that can turn mean is that there is a real challenge to how we are established and the need particularly as a 21st century good. i agree, by the way that he seems to me we have strong arguments to make about what we actually can and cannot do. i am not certain those arguments can be based on an idea that we have to protect a tradition of literature that authority established. you can do that, but you have to do it in conjunction with the idea we are interested in the idea of what is literature and literary and we are not necessarily committed to making that distinction going forward. i don't know

it's coming you know i remember from when i was in college you know reading transcripts of the lincoln douglas debates there were fascinating baits but they didn't stop the united states from plunging into a bloody civil war what what is it that drives you to debate where do you what place you think that the baiting these people has been improving our society knowing that you're not going to change the people you're debating you're not going to change people you actually let me try to answer a question thank you for the call. a sometimes i actually do change. but i think that you know it's interesting when when richard was first booked on the show there were some people on the staff our staff were like oh my god the klan coming and i'm like you know these guys are bozos it's like this is not something to be afraid of it's like oh there's conservatives coming on you know it's like. here's here's the here's the deal if we don't give. the old phrase you know give give give got enough rope although it's a horrible metaphor to use in the context of the klan but if we don't show. the conservatives o

coming you know i remember from when i was in college re you know reading transcripts of the lincoln douglas debates that were fascinating the bates but they didn't stop the united states from plunging into a bloody civil war what what is it that drives you to debate where do you see what place you think that the baiting these people has been improving our society knowing that you're not going to change the people you're debating you're not going to change people you actually let me try to answer a question thank you for the call. a sometimes i actually do change things but i think that you know it's interesting when when richard was first booked on the show there were some people on the staff our staff were like oh my god the klan's coming and i'm like you know these guys are bozos it's it's it's like this is.

we use to use the lincoln-douglas debates as an example, as a kind of model or metaphor of what we mean by political debate. these debates would go on for hours. television has redefined it, so now the two or possibly three candidates stand in front of the television camera and each one is given two minutes to respond to a very difficult question, and the opponent is given 60 seconds to reply. now, we still call this a debate, but it's a redefinition of that term. ross perot's suggestion that we use television as a form of a town meeting is another redefinition of what we once meant by town meeting. so one of the most interesting things about technology is that it redefines our language. it gives us different meanings of older words, and very often we're not quite as aware as we should be of how that process is working. c-span: good or bad? >> guest: well, in this book i mostly emphasize the bad part. i've done that in most of my books. but i admit happily at the beginning of the book that anyone who looks at technology as an either-or development -- that is, either all good or all bad

steven douglas used it in the late 1850 when running against lincoln and came up in the presidential campaign as well. >> during his presidency, what is an issue he worked on or had secretary of state worked on. that wasn't necessarily tied to the civil war? >> well, it was all tied to the civil war. the primary thing was keeping the european powers from recognizing the confederacy, which could have been changing the course of the war or american history if they recognized the confederacy. it was the biggest thing. lincoln also had to deal with a series of crises, with britain, france, spain. russians were friend at the time. it showed up in the middle of the war on the pacific coast. it was an issue. he used the russian ships to kind of play off the french a little bit. so it was a lot going on that i think people don't realize on the global stage. one of the things that interested me about this period there are similarities to our own times. it was not the parallels aren't perfect. britain was the world's kind of economic superpower at that time. lincoln was living in his age of gl

stephen douglas used in the 1850s when he was running against lincoln in the presidential campaign as well. >> but during his presidency, what is an issue that he worked on or had the secretary of state work on, what has necessarily tied to the civil war? >> it was all tied to the civil war. the primary thing was keeping the european powers from recognizing the confederacy which could have changed the course of the war if they recognized the confederacy so that was the biggest thing that lincoln also had to deal with a series of crises with britain and france and spain and the russians were friends at the time, friendly power but they showed up in the middle of the war on the atlantic and pacific coast so that was an issue on the russian ships to play off of the fringe a little bit. so there's a lot going on but ii think people don't realize on the global stage. >> one of the things that interested me in this period is there are similarities to our own time. the parallels are not perfect but the world sort of economic superpower at that time, but lincoln was living in an age of global

steven douglas used it in the late 18 50's when he was running against lincoln and it came up in the presidential campaign as well. >> during his presidency, what is an issue that he worked on or had secretary of state seward work on that wasn't necessarily tied to his presidency? the civil war? >> was all tied to the civil war. the primary thing was keep in the european powers from recognizing the confederacy which could have changed the course of the war and could have changed the course of american history. that was the biggest thing that lincoln had to deal with a series of crises with britain, with france, with. the russians were friends of the time, friendly power but russian ships showed up in the middle of the atlantic and pacific coasts of that was an issue. he used the russian ships to kind of play off the french a little bit so there was a lot going on that i think people don't realize on the global stage. one of the things that really insures did me about this period was there are some similarities to our own times. the parallels aren't perfect. britain was the world's ec

douglas- fairhurst. with me here in new york, harvard historian jill lepore. john romano wrote "intolerable cruelty" and "the lincoln lawyer" and is a former professor english at columbia. and salman rushdie is a lifelong dickens enthusiast. i am pleased to have all of these guests and to talk about charles dickens on this 200 anniversary. i begin with you. why dickens? what is it about dickens? >> one of the things was reading dickens before i ever came to the west was that these cities that dickens describes, a great rotting metropolis, it felt like the city outside my window. if you grow up in a city like bombay or delhi, it feels exactly like dickensian. it has exactly that characteristic of corruption and filth and these huge larger- than-life characters. >> jill, you are the historian among us. >> in the united states, dickens is taken as an american writer. it is curious about dickens because he had such a painful relationship with the united states. "great expectations" is the ninth most frequently assigned novel in american high schools. it is interesting to think about dickens readership in the united stat

douglas fair hurst. his book is called becoming dickens. with me in new york, harvard historian jill laport. john romano who wrote "sbolable cruelty" and "the lincoln lawyer." an also novelist salman rushdie, the author of "midnight children" and other books. he's also a life long dickens enthusiast. i am pleased to have all these guests here and to talk about charles dickens on this 200th anniversary. i begin with you. why dickens? what is it about dickens that makes him continue to -- >> well, for me one of the things was reading dickens before i ever game to the west was that these cities that dickens ascribes, the great rotting metropolis of dickens felt like the city outside my window. and if you grew up in a city like bombay or delhi, it feels exactly like dickens in london. it has exactly that characteristic of corruption and filth and then these huge larger-than-life characters that populate it. so i felt dickens was a great novelist. >> rose: jill. you're the historian among us. >> it's interesting. in the united states dickens is taken as an american writer. maybe every country has it way of adopting dickens as a native son which is curio