senate, and they've come to hear abraham lincoln confront senator stephen a. douglase issue that threatens to tear america apart -- slavery. >> the debates between lincoln and douglas drew enormous crowds. >> people are drinking. people are cheering. people are fighting. it was almost pugilistic, as if people were coming to a boxing match to watch these two heavyweights slug it out. >> lincoln is a rookie politician, a member of the brand new republican party. just four years old, it was formed to end slavery. >> he's an unknown. abraham lincoln's career as a politician has been almost nonexistent. >> the only thing lincoln has is his brain, is his ability to orate. that's it. >> his opponent in this election is the current senator of illinois, democrat stephen a. douglas. >> stephen a. douglas was among the most ruthless politicians of the day. >> and more importantly, probably the most democratic politician in the united states. >> i would call it david and goliath. but it's worse than that. it's david and goliath if david didn't even have a slingshot. >> douglas do

now it's a double race between lincoln and douglas in the north and democrat john c. constitutional unionist john bell in the south. >> abraham lincoln has to win without his name even on the ballot in the south. and that's not going to be easy because he has to win new york. if he doesn't win new york, he will not be president. >> new york state has the highest number of electoral votes, but it is also the stomping ground of william seward and thurlow weed, who lincoln has so publicly humiliated. >> they hate lincoln. they feel like they got cheated out of the nomination. >> lincoln has to make peace. he invites weed to his home in springfield. >> lincoln's attitude is nobody's his enemy. everybody is his friend. >> lincoln's approach here wasn't to stand over a vanquished opponent and rub it in and not just tell weed, hey, you lost, i won, get on the program. >> and the two men spend five hours talking. >> he courted weed and he had to offer weed any number of things to secure the right level of support and endorsement. >> what lincoln and weed talked about has been

at least this isn't the lincoln/douglas debates. it was like back then in the debates a little bit too much? >> yes and no. we are romanticizing the fact that steven douglas used very divisive language but we're not romanticizing the fact that abraham lincoln, who had been a congressman, but that's all, becomes a national figure because of the power of his rhetoric, not because he's a blowhard. >> right. >> it's not by screaming. it's by persuasion. >> his words. he didn't even have the appearance as you see in this of presidential at all. >> no, and he comes to cooper union here in new york city and he's unkempt and his audience is moved not by how he looks, but what he says, and what he says is, remember the declaration of independence. remember the fact that it doesn't say we're all created equal but african americans or negroes, as they would say then, but all of us, and what does that mean and what does that mean for our country? he not only repeated that phrase but he gave reasons why the political culture of this country had t

lincoln said in 1854 in opposition to steven a. douglas' nebraska act. new free states are the places for poor people to go to and better their condition. lincoln had been oppressed by a man who was himself oppressed. by crossing the ohio river into indiana, his father had made his own escape. lincoln was a fugitive's son and a fugitive himself. even more startling than lincoln's self-description as chattel, as human property, was his subsequent self-identification as a particular kind of slave, a fugitive slave, a runaway. in one of two interviews he granted, this one intended for circulation in support of his senate candidacy in 1858, lincoln offered this physical description of himself. if any personal description of me is thought desirable, it may be said i am in height 6'4" nearly, lean in flesh, weighing on an average 180 pounds, dark complexion, coarse black air, gr hair, no other marks or brands recollected. many might have missed lincoln's allusion. at the end of his seemingly bland self-portrayal, what did it mean? no other marks or brands recol

we will debate the art of debating from its ancient origins to lincoln and douglas all the way to today. >>> finally -- >> the most important thing is the story. >> other shows are reexamining what was called the murder of the century, the o.j. simpson case. we will re-examine the most famous murder in history. who really killed jewel caesar and why? fitting questions on the eve of the eyes of march. >>> but first, here's my take. the energy fuelling the presidential campaign on both sides of the political spectrum seems to be deep despair about the american economy. on this central issue, bernie sanders and donald trump have a surprisingly similar message. the american economy has failed. but is the analysis correct? let's see. the u.s. economy has created 14 million private sector jobs since 2010. unemployment has dropped to under 5% and the number of people filing jobless claims hit a 42-year low. the dow jones industrial average has more than doubled under barack obama, under some of the best stock performances under any president. housing and construction markets are also strong. a

but on the episode, you will see a match between lincoln and douglas.ging, heated debates and racially charged attacks. >> margaret washington, you saw the professor quoted in that clip we showed. thank you for being with us. i'm struck every campaign season. we were talking about, it is the most negative campaign ever, can you believe the level of rhetoric on the campaign trail and then like the one we saw talking about what happened in 1860. where the level of discourse was not exactly particularly high. >> that's true. the lincoln-douglas debate is before 1860 but leading in to the presidential campaign that will take place in 1860. in some ways we can see a relationship between the two campaigns in terms of accusations on both levels. >> why do you think it is so important to look back and learn about today? >> of course we know for a fact that the kinds of attitudes that lincoln had, versus the kind of attitudes douglas had a profound effect later on, especially during the civil war era. we know from what is happening today that this kind of anger,

, he said he agreed with douglas in being horrified by the thought of interracial marriage. lincoln said, and i quote, "judge douglas is horrified at the thought of the mixing of the blood of the white and black races. agreed."d times presumably, he purportedly spoke for himself as well as nearly all white people when he said, "there is a natural discussed in the minds of nearly all white people to the idea of an indiscriminate amalgamation of the white and black races." there is evidence to think that he expressed a version -- his expressed diversion -- a version may have been insincere. , he asked lincoln why he favor the illinois law for banning interracial marriage. according to locke, lincoln said, "the law means nothing. i shall never marry a negress but i have no objection to anyone else doing so." if a a -- man wants to marry some of lincoln's defense of statements towards african-americans pander to the prejudices of voters. the six the definition is, racism is inadequate concern for the welfare of a certain race of people. there is evidence that lincoln strongly favor the

. >> lincoln/douglas. >> lincoln was disgusting. i mean, they treated him like he was an animal. he was castigated, libeled in newspapers across the country on a daily basis. this is not new. what it is -- it's on television, it's in front of us. that's very different. >> that's the difference. >> that's the difference. >> yeah. what did you think when you heard all that? gutter. >> it's -- america is not benefiting, but this is, you know, this is kind of like close combat. it's everything people watch on television. it's wrestling, it's mud wrestling, it's a full contact sport. >> okay, let's get into the mud. know? they've known all the stuff about donald trump since june when he announced. it's just now coming up because now the republican establishment is freaked out that he might actually get the nomination. >> well, the boys in washington -- and they are boys -- are really out of their minds. they don't know what to do. trump -- they can't control him. they can't put a money button on him. there's nothing they can do. they're scared about the senate, but mostly they're scar

, he said he agreed with douglas in being horrified at the thought of interracial marriage. lincoln said, and i quote, judge douglas is especially horrified at the thought of the mixing of the blood of the white and black races. agreed for once. 1,000 times agreed. presumably, lincoln was purportedly speaking for himself and all white people when he said, quote, there's a natural disgust in the minds of nearly all white people to the idea of an indiscrimination of the amal goe mags of the white and black races. his strongly express eed aversi to interracial marriage might have been insincere. according to law, lincoln replied saying the law means nothing. i shall never marry a negress but i have no objection to another man doing so. [ laughter ] >> this partly confirms my view that some of lincoln's offensive statements about african-americans pander to the prejudices of voters. the sixth definition of racism is that racism is inadequate concern for the welfare of a certain race of people. lincoln strongly favored the interest of whites over blacks. the racial discrimination that he

lincoln did that as a way to deal with the relentless racist arguments of douglas in those debates, and at the same time try and make the argument that lacks also -- blacks also were human. >> two questions. where was the abolition house, boarding house, lincoln resided at when he was in congress? could you expand more on, did lincoln have conversations potentially with his father about treating him like a slave whereto his 21st birthday he was no longer being hired out by his father as a slave? sidney blumenthal: thank you. on the first question, the boarding house was run by a widow named mrs. sprague. boarding house was on a row of boarding houses where congress now exists. the jefferson building, the big building. not the madison building where you do research, but the main building. that was a whole row of boarding houses. lincoln lived in one of those boarding houses. it was originally a boarding house where theater well lived. he had been the assistant to john quincy adams and was one of the brilliant organizers of the abolition movement. , thea giddings lived there leading aboli

so all the men prior to that just have to court their state legislature, so you think of the lincoln/douglas debates over senate, they're not debating for people to vote for them, they're debating for people to vote for the people of the state government to vote for them. so it's a very complicated system. and people are saying you know what? we want to be able to vote for our own senators. we vote for everyone else in government, why not the senate, so that's one of the things that changes, but we have to grow into how some of these things work. but the remarkable thing when you go back to these years if philadelphia, other than that, most everything does operate pretty well the same way. we're using the system designed in independence hall that they take into this building and use and continue on when they move to washington in 1800. now, as you look at this room, unlike downstairs in the house of representatives, the second floor of the building with the senate is a lot more original as far as the things in the building go. we have -- we have the setting for 32 senators. we start with jus

(laughter)the lincoln-douglas debate, when abraham lincoln said: "no american, whether they be from north or south, free or slave, has ever complained about the size of my lincoln log.atches the drapes." (applause) believe that these are absolutely legitimate jokes to debate right now!'ve been following american democracy for the last 240 years, we have officially hit a new low in political discourse. let's go to the chart.k below "swift boat," below "secret muslim," below "john mccain's illegitimate baby," and, oh, we've shattered through the bottom of the chart!wing into the earth below the ed sullivan theater, past the subway lines. t email server, past the founding fathers spinning in theirhe center of the earth. there it is, stopping ateasuring contest. pretty low.te the lowest rung. we still haven't hit "onstage nutpunch followed by closing statement delivered via one long burp.h. we'll be right back with will arnett. (cheers and applause) shopping for an suv? well, this is the time. and your ford dealer is the place, to get 0% financing for 60 months on a ford suv. ford suvs. desig

(laughter) this is even worse than the lincoln-douglas debate, when abraham lincoln said: "no american, whether they be from north or south, free or slave, has ever complained about the size of my lincoln log. and yes, the beard matches the drapes." i can't believe that these are absolutely legitimate jokes to be making about a presidential debate right now! for those of you who've been following american democracy for the last 240 years, we have officially hit a new low in political discourse. let's go to the chart. yes, we've sunk below "swift boat," below "secret muslim," below "john mccain's illegitimate baby," and, oh, we've shattered through the bottom of the chart! and it's burrowing into the earth below the ed sullivan theater, past the subway lines. past hillary clinton's secret email server, past the founding fathers spinning in their graves, aaand into the center of the earth. there it is, stopping at presidential penis measuring pretty low. though not quite the lowest rung. we still haven't hit "onstage nutpunch followed by closing statement delivered via one long burp. but

. >> he had to make them laugh, but you know is not lincoln douglas and it isn't even kennedy nixon. i thought he held his own. i think the reason you have this enormous attack on trump is because of a pent-up demand. the guy had all of these issues hanging around his neck. trump university. bringing in outside foreigners to work on his hotels. the idea he supported the democrats. the flip flops. the fact that his numbers on taxes didn't add up. all of that has been around six months, and was rarely ever brought up because other candidates are afraid of trump or ranked, bush, that i'll drop money attacking rubio, and create the lane for me. so this is like six months of silence. and for a guy with huge vulneribless that are not exploited. by the 15th of mark, rubio hasn't won florida and ohio has not gone to kasich, it is likely over. so all of this stuff being is crammed in. that is why it looked like over kill. >> well, we shall see if they're vulnerabilities or not. trump has motivated a huge group that is loyal to him. a loyalty others are envious of. charles, always a pleasure,

, he said he agreed with douglas in being horrified by the thought of interracial marriage. lincoln said, and i quote, "judge douglas is horrified at the thought of the mixing of the blood of the white and black races. a thousand times agreed." presumably, he purportedly spoke and for himself as well as nearly all white people when he said, "there is a natural discussed in the minds of nearly all white people to the idea of an indiscriminate amalgamation of the white and black races." there is evidence to think that he expressed a version may have been insincere. in 1859, he asked lincoln why he favored the illinois law for banning interracial marriage. according to locke, lincoln said, "the law means nothing. i shall never marry a negress but i have no objection to anyone else doing so." if a white man wants to marry a negro woman, let him do it if the negro woman can stand it. [laughter] some of lincoln's defense of statements towards african-americans pander to the prejudices of voters. the six the definition is, racism is inadequate concern for the welfare of a certain race of p

we're going toward a new sense of beings, with ourselves and with each other. >> frederic douglas met with lincoln on several occasions. and douglas said about him he was the only white men he ever met that treated him fully as an equal. i think part of it comes back to the idea of the self-made man. lincoln's idea that we have to lift artificial weights off of people's shoulders. the is the great arctic later among others of the vision. earlier on he doesn't know what to do. again this is the change over time. read the speech in 1854 where he says if all power were given to me, i wouldn't know what to do with respect to slavery. my first inclination would be be colon nigh zags. he made comments about not believing in social equality.

you tried to make yourself into a lincoln-douglas debate. you try to make yourself into theodore roosevelt. now, suddenly, some guy shows up with zero respect for anything that has gone on before and he does exactly what he is doing and has done to elevate himself as a brand and that's all he is doing. he doesn't care what the requirements of the office happens to be. he wants the job and he knows how to go after the people who are going to cast the vote and that's what he is doing. >> and to be fair, ted cruz and marco rubio tried for a good nine debates to not really seem to this level but it seems like they have made the determination. their focus is bringing one- liners, getting harsher and that's what we have seen them do to try to deal with this brand-new element. it seems like absent donald trump, we might have seen something usual. >> and the interesting thing is you don't even have to make it up about trump. just look at his career. it is laced with everyone minor you have ever heard or wanted. >> absolutely and that the certain sec

we're going toward a new sense of beings, with ourselves and with each other. >> frederic douglas met with lincoln on several occasions. and douglas said about him he was the only white men he ever met that treated him fully as an equal. i think part of it comes back to the idea of the self-made man. lincoln's idea that we have to lift artificial weights off of people's shoulders. the is the great arctic later among others of the vision. earlier on he doesn't know what to do. again this is the change over time. read the speech in 1854 where he says if all power were given to me, i wouldn't know what to do with respect to slavery. my first inclination would be be colon nigh zags. he made comments about not believing in social equality. but ultimately it also becomes about the ways in which experience transforms attitudes. so lincoln grew but so did so many other americans. in my last book i wrote about a lot of soldiers. and one of the important elements of the emancipation proclamation can is when the army becomes an army of liberation, it changes their mind. the enslaved are an abstraction for th

nobody was handing out lincoln tickets in south carolina and a douglas remind the congressmen, south carolina and mississippi have a black majority. so, lincoln wins in 1860 because he is running against a former wake. -- wig. he says things will be different. in 1868, grant loses new york. he carried north carolina, south carolina, florida and alabama. so he says, let's make quick work of the amendment and get black voting rights, because grant is aware that he is president based on the south but. -- vote. quick work of the 15th amendment and get black voting rights because grant is quite aware he is president thanks to southern black folks and he wants them to be able to vote in new york and consulting -- and pennsylvania. five years after the fighting is over, that black barbara in rochester can go to the polls and vote. here is again, you schoolteacher who taught an all-black school for boys in philadelphia. he taught greek, he taught latin, he taught mathematics, he is teaching the same curriculum that elite white boys would be taking. he is walking home one day and this is the c

in the fire, in the crucible of the civil war, lincoln moved his position to making it about freedom. frederick douglas had a lot to do with that. more -- she was most certainly the most respected confidant that lincoln had that could tell him what was in the slave and free black networks. he saved 4 million slaves with the stroke of a pen. frederick douglas was in that struggle from 1838 all the way until 1863 and then some. he was also involved in other rights movements. he was at seneca falls. in 1848. what happened there? the first women's rights convention. thank you. lucretia mott was the main speaker. elizabeth cady stanton had drafted a declaration of sentiment. frederick douglass was one of 400 people who came to this little town in upstate new york in july and he urged to include suffrage on the list of declarations. and they did. if he had not been there, it might not have happened. it makes it ironic to look forward to 1865 when the pivot settlement of the civil war did not include women's suffrage. -- they were like one in the same, the two movements. hour -- this the is the negroes hour.

boundaries of fraud, and you the smithsonian out of the hands of people like stephen douglas, lincoln douglas fame who wanted to expend all of james smithson's money on agricultural schemes and projects. and he kept it out of the hands of andrew johnson, the president, who wanted to rename the smithsonian washington university for the benefit of indigent children of the district of columbia. now, perhaps his greatest achievement in washington was surviving for 30 years from 1846 to 1878 as secretary. that is no mean feat, especially as joseph henry in the civil war was a man of decidedly southern sympathies but stayed on and served and survived in the smithsonian survived because of him. so that is my thank you's, but i do want to also tell you why i wrote this book and what this book means, at least to me. i began writing this book as a young child. standing up, about five and six years old in the back of my father's 1946 studebaker as he drove from philadelphia to virginia and would come in on what i later realized was new york avenue into the capitol, and i would see it and be quite stunne

and -- >> [inaudible] >> as was pointed out this douglas when frederick gave his speech in 1865, where he said he heard lincoln call he limited black support, was so disappointed because it was so limited. that is an important speech because as it was pointed out this morning, douglas said lincoln learned his statesmanship in the school of rail splitting. you take a mall, a big hammer, and drive home the thick and of the wedge. we should have known what lincoln was doing was inserting a thin and -- inserting the thin end of the wedge. >> i think there is a bit of speculation. he would havet done had he lived longer? i don't think that is quite as clear. i think to some extent we have we say about this we have to hedge with some degree of uncertainty. it is quite possible or likely he would have done so. >> i am puzzled still and concerned that even now people seem to take a light -- take to light that-- take to lincoln was a racist. why does that attitude persists? >> i think there is some evidence for that statement in things i've said here. i think in some sense he was a racist. >> [inaudible] it seems to me

sin thereafter, the famous lincoln-douglas campaign in illinois were argued over the dred scott case. prof. bracey: something happened during the course of the debates which is important. lincoln is now in a position to say something that is new in public discourse on the slavery question. that is that slavery is evil, now he can take the moral high ground. that gives him new standing. he argues with douglas on this point. he says, just because i don't want a woman to be my slave doesn't mean that i also want her to be my wife. she can be left alone. he is beginning to change the discourse a little bit, suggesting that he does believe slavery is morally evil, but also hedging on the citizenship question. he is suggesting that maybe the conservative unionists are right, that emancipation doesn't necessarily mean equal citizenship. ms. swain: what about dred and harriet scott? they lost their case. what happened to them next? prof. jones: in some sense, the story ends with the scott's ultimately winning their freedom, not i way of the court, but by way of their long-standing relationshi

lincoln did that as a way to deal with the relentless racist arguments of douglas in those debates, and at the same time try and make the argument that lacks also -- blacks also were human. >> two questions. where was the abolition house, boarding house, lincoln resided at when he was in congress? could you expand more on, did lincoln have conversations potentially with his father about treating him like a slave whereto his 21st birthday he was no longer being hired out by his father as a slave? sidney blumenthal: thank you. on the first question, the boarding house was run by a widow named mrs. sprague. boarding house was on a row of boarding houses where congress now exists. the jefferson building, the big building. not the madison building where you do research, but the main building. that was a whole row of boarding houses. lincoln lived in one of those boarding houses. it was originally a boarding house where theater well lived. he had been the assistant to john quincy adams and was one of the brilliant organizers of the abolition movement. , thea giddings lived there leading aboli