-grant relationship is in grant's ability to understand lincoln and to tell lincoln what lincolnnow and to treat his superior with respect and understanding. grant understood this, whereas other union generals did not. >> just remember, we are fighting to build a new union here. there are those who would kill us both to prevent it. >> i try and stay out of politics, mr. president. you tell me what to fight for, and i'll do the fighting. if i can play some small part in getting rid of slavery forever, i think i'll have done some good. >> then don't let me keep you. you've got some good to do. >> at that point, there becomes this wonderful relationship that develops between the elected president and the appointed commanding general. they understood that they were engaged in the ultimate cause of holding the union together. they believed that this would save lives in the future. they believed this was essential to american self-government and american liberty. >> trusting in grant's aggression and skill to direct the war effort, lincoln focuses on the political battle. now he takes

lincoln. he understood lincoln's interest, but lincoln hadn't given him specific instructions. reunited country was not a war worth fighting. >> hello, general. >> general. shall we discuss your terms? >> my terms? [ distant explosions, shouts ] ♪ officers and men, they go home with no fear of treason charges so long as they observe their paroles and the laws where they reside. >> those are generous terms. i do have one additional favor to ask, however. in our army, the enlisted men own their own horses. may they keep them? >> i felt sad and depressed at the downfall of a foe that had fought so long and valiantly and suffered so much for a cause. that cause was, i believe, one of the worst for which a pele ever fought. ♪ ♪ ♪ >> robert e. lee is not expected to surrender his sword, partly because the union army did have a genuine and sincere respect for this man, and he's permitted to deliver a farewell address to his men. >> men, we have fought this war together, and i have done the best i could for you. now you will all be paroled and sent home. >> let's keep fighting. we will

lincoln wanted to do. we often think of lincoln is a was, butonciler and he he also had a stiff back of principle. people talk about lincoln as a pragmatist, and i am a little on comfortable with that because being a student of philosophy in know an philosophy, i pragmatism actually means as a technical definition. he was not bad. politician, but not a pragmatist. believed the fundamental root of american identity lay in the declaration of independence. and what it says. as part ofomment his campaign against stephen douglas from illinois for the senate. of the peoplehalf of our country today are people from someplace else. they are people from germany, france, scandinavia, what have you. from thenot descended american revolutionaries, and they do not know much about the american revolutionaries, they only read about the american revolution. lincoln said, when they look into the declaration of independence, and when they read ere that all men are created equal and are endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights and among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, then, lincoln said, they feel they a

-what is lincoln's lincolns? -yes. water for $600, please.. -what is hudson bay? -good. -water, $800. the light blue patches

lincoln. she is critical of lincoln. she hates confederates. she hates copperheads. she thinks lincoln is being too and now hencipation has just issued lenient plans for reconstruction and she does not like that. she is more of a way to davis type. vis type.a she is giving lincoln a hard time and who walks in, abraham and mary lincoln. check one she did a her testament, she and up endorsing him after giving a lecture on him. afterward she meets with lincoln and she is now 21, she will be allowed to vote in just under six decades yet people invited her, they cared about what she said. the press made a huge deal of this. if you know your election details, there is serious whethertion about republicans show to select one of a handful of possible figures left of lincoln including fremont. there's a lot of talk about this. i find this fascinating. dickenson's papers are full of big-time people writing to her saying, are you going to endorse lincoln ? that isd they care barely 20-year-old quaker from philadelphia is endorsing lincoln? but they clearly do. she is holding them at bay because s

lincoln. it had been a very difficult douglass honing up to lincoln. in fact, lincoln had a few more ferocious critics in the first year and a half of the war, then frederick douglass. douglass called lincoln some very horrible names. like "the most powerful of catcher in northern america." if lincoln knew that when they met, he just forgot it. at any rate, the republican party would not let douglass campaign. they would -- for the rest of wouldan's life, he campaign for every republican candidate. usually in selected places. but this time, they would not let him out there. because, the republican party was trying to dance around the problem of emancipation. they have painted red on therefore heads. it is classic politics -- on their fouso douglass could not g tour, but hethe tw could go to the church in rochester. and this is how it would all and . on election night -- it would all end. a scrapbook in savannah, one of those things that you dream about, you wish you have two sources, i have it. and i will use on election night in rochester, there is a reminiscence writ

lincolna lincoln -- a lincoln or hate andrew jackson or whatever affiliation it might be. they folded that into their personal identity. politics is something you can engage in in a way that the economic system might be difficult to engage in, or education might be difficult to get. you can still turn out at rallies and yell and holler for your guy. susan: you write about how political party affiliation is a family thing. were these young people recordable to the other party? would they just reinforce what already existed? jon: 95% of voters vote for what they originally have started with. there was a little bit of a wobble. there were young men able to vote at 21, there is a little time in their where just enough voters could be won over to swing an election. these are the closest elections in american history. you get a couple 21-year-olds in the right state to switch sides, you have one control of the entire government. susan: i saw a statistic that in 1820, one quarter of the eligible voters voted and only 20 years later that voted to 46. -- that switched to 4/5. what

lincoln. it had been a very difficult process, douglass honing up to lincoln. in fact, lincoln had a few more ferocious critics in the first year and a half of the war, then frederick douglass. douglass called lincoln some very horrible names. -- a lot of bad names. like "the most powerful of catcher in northern america." if lincoln knew that when they met, he just forgot it. at any rate, the republican party would not let douglass campaign. they would -- for the rest of the man's life, he would campaign for every republican candidate. from grant all the way on. usually in selected places. but this time, they would not let him out there. because, the republican party is trying to dance around the problem of emancipation. classic politics. maybe emancipation could be affected by the courts. so douglass could not going campaign on the tour, but he could go to the church in rochester. and this is how it would all end. on election night, i got this from a scrapbook in savannah, one of those things that you dream about, you wish you have two sources, i have one, and i am using it. o

in his column, he quoted a speech delivered by abraham lincoln. lincoln said, there was a mobocratic spirit among the vicious portion of the population. so let reverence for the laws become the political religion of the nation. george will went on to say, pence, one of the evangelical christians' favorite pin-ups jen flecks at various altars as the mobocratic spirit and the vicious portion require. he sees a difference between mike pence and donald trump, trump is what he is, and pence is what he has chosen to be. here are the closing lines of george will's column. trump is what he is. a floundering, inarticulate jumble of gnawing insecurities and not at all compensating vanities, which is pathetic. pence is what he has chosen to be, which is horrifying. george f. will will join us next. at ally, we offer low-cost trades and high-yield savings. but if that's not enough, we offer innovative investing tools to prepare you for the future. looks like you hooked it. and if that's not enough, we'll help your kid prepare for the future. don't hook it kid. and if

,alking about the justification what is going on in terms of people who have lived in houses, lincoln lincolneights, loyal heights, who have for 30, 40 years nts now finding their re double, and the lack of recourse they actually have is shocking. affects even the people living in the $16 million home in pacific heights. my last home, we were renting in san francisco. in berkeleyliving capital, had my father-in-law's house, and we did ok. on'spreschool -- my s preschool teacher was commuting an hour and a half each way, because she could afford anything close to san francisco. we have to be honest about how good.ic development is you can do certain things. they have been breaking things in their own communities. and this is something that is going to be very interesting to see moving forward and heartbreaking to see, also, how california grapples with this. there are large parts of the state that are still very agricultural, that are very po or. mean, california is not a monolith, and we have highly concentrated areas of great wealth. it does not mean it is all bad, but it is a millenarian, s

for jefferson davis as the loss of willie lincoln had been for abraham lincoln. >> [ coughing ] >> so, there was a personal aspect of this that unites lincolnd, but thine. >> jefferson davis, celebrated war hero and influential politician, enters the civil war a stronger leader than abraham lincoln, but as the war takes its toll on both men, the way they respond to adversity defines them. lincoln, faced with the staggering cost of the war, looks to america's core principles to give the union fight a higher purpose, but davis' confederacy has no such ideals to appeal to. it is built on a hollow foundation, and as the confederacy starts to crumble, jefferson davis is powerless to hold it together. steve: the midterms are fewer than six months away, the economy is stronger, we're at virtually falling employment. why would anyone want to vote for change right now. >> great question, jake. perhaps you might want to ask your trump-hating colleagues at cnn, especially when you consider the week that president trump is having on the world stage. last week, standing up to iran, progress on north korea, hostages safely home and before that red lines

taft -- are interred here as well as robert todd lincoln, son of abraham lincoln, father of abraham lincoln the second, is also buried here. there are also 400 medal of honor recipients here entered interred at arlington national cemetery, including general arthur macarthur, father of douglas macarthur, and otti audi murphy with the medal of honor and 33 other awards. you will walk by his grave on the other side of memorial drive as we process down to lay the wreaths upon the new monument. i will submit to you that all that we do, in fact, we owe to those who have preceeded us and those who will follow us. for our time is done. as most of you are aware, there are nine army aviators and eight crew members who have received the medal of honor. two of us are with us today. over my shoulder, there are two medal of honor winners buried in section 7-a. chief warrant officer michael novosel, who is credited with hundreds of medical evacuations and hundreds of missions in vietnam. mike novosel's significance -- he in fact served at age 48. the oldest medal of honor recipient in our history as you w

lincoln insisted constitutional justification. taft knows that although lincoln suspended -- lincoln insisted on going back to congress once emergency has passed. taft gave that is an example of how he acted within the constitution as much as it allowed. >> here's a question that i suspect from someone who's a bachelor. if he hated the presidency much so much, why did he run? >> it wasn't nelly it was his devotion to the constitution. he is appalled that roosevelt became a demagogue on the recall of jewish judicial decision by population. we have this inspiring quotation the people themselves must be the ultimate judge. it's crazy this is one of the speeches i with the people have to be able to overturn judicial decisions popular vote. she ran to defend the constitution. he puts the need to resist vetoes the state constitutions in mexico sorry, of arizona new mexico even though he hates being president wants been the court he believes it's his duty to defend the constitution against populist demagogues. >> the quotation on the wall is paired with one constitutional people or something,. >> even homer nodded and we're talking today a

lincolns in washington and got passed from lincoln himself. and she found herself subject to skating news accounts in the weeks that followed, aid and comfort for the enemy, was the title of one of the news accounts. story, the reporters accused white of smuggling gold in her skirt on her way back to the south. other articles went further, accusing lincoln of being overly indulgent of his confederate family members in granting martha todd white a pass to travel. and some went so far as to say well, lincoln, he has offered aid and comfort to the enemy. the union is thus betrayed in the white house screamed one newspaper account. these reports were great exaggerations. theit was no coincidence most exaggerated stories of martha todd white strip came from democratic newspapers. lincoln's greatest breaks in the north and this was in 1864, so this was his reelection year. tothe story was trumped up really jab at him in election year. beganncolns essentially -- mccain did exhibit a for why divided families should not be trusted. when that sort of distress led to these very restrictive pass of policies, out of these divided families expect to maintain any sort of emotional bonds if they lived on either side of the line? here they came up with some interesting ways of maintaining contact. in 1863, the richmond inquirer and the new york daily ne

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lincoln, winning the war and abolishing slavery, which is what the movie deals with, but lincoln was a consummate politician as well. he understood that to get there, he cannot go straight to that objective. he will run into the swamp or over a cliff. he has got to circumvent, he has got to navigate, he has got to maneuver. before long, maybe he has got to bribe a few people and whatnot. he is as manipulative a politician as nixon or lbj ever were. the brilliance of that movie is the extent to which it shows this in lincolne great difference with lincoln is he was so fixated on this larger goal and could so eloquently express it, and i think that is the genius of lincoln. lbj is interesting because he had a larger goal. i think it was ending poverty and racism in this country. but he allowed himself to be distracted by the vietnam war and lost the ability to persuade credibly. his credibility began to go down the tubes shortly after the election in 1965. he was caught being less than truthful about various things, policy issues and then the intervention in the dominican republic and a whole series of things that led to the credibility gap. the press is tougher on johnson than it was on lincoln. it was pretty tough on lincoln in that day and age. that is what i think you have to do in leadership is to maintain the compass heading, circumvent the swamps, but be able to explain what compromises you have made if you have to make some and get caught making them. be able to explain why you did that. that is a

lincolns in washington. she got a pass from lincoln himself. and found herself -- aid and comfort for the enemy. that was the title of one of the news accounts. in the story, the reporters accused white of smuggling gold in her skirt on her way back to the south. other articles accused lincoln of being overly indulgent in his family members in granting martha white a pass to travel. some went so far to say lincoln has offered aid and comfort to the enemy. the union has betrayed the white house -- these of course were great exaggerations and it was no coincidence that the most exaggerated stories of martha todd white's trip came from democratic newspapers. lincoln's greatest critics in the north and this was in 1864, so this was his reelection year, so this was a story trumped up to help jab at him in an election year. the lincolns essentially became exhibit a for why divided families shouldn't be trusted. when that sort of distrust led to these restrictive pasts and mail policies, how could these divided families expect to maintain emotional bonds if they lived on other sides of the lines. in 1863, the richmond inquirer and new york daily news launched an ad exchange. it was an interesting moment of a northern and southern news paperworking together. they launched what we c

lincoln. it was pretty tough on lincoln in that day and age. that is what i think you have to do in -- to do, and leadership is to maintain the compass heading, circumvent the swamps, but be able to explain what compromises you have made if you have to make some and get caught making them. be able to explain why you did that. trick, a tough triangle to maintain. -- a poll showed yelled students are about 70% democrats. e students are about 70% democrats. john: i would have guessed higher than that. brian: do you ever take a poll after whether they are hedgehogs or fox's? john: we don't want to give too much importance to that dichotomy. berlin meant it as a teaching tool. you to ask a consistent set of questions about a variety of people. it is useful up to a point. the points can be drawn to finally, trying to make find the sanctions between hedgehog is hedgehogisms of -- and foxism. it becomes artificial. the more interesting question is how you can combine the attributes of the hedgehog and the fox. that means knowing when to be which, and t

lincoln eloquently defended his fellow attorneys. lincoln was a self-taught lawyer who delivered his first major address at age 28. he gave his speech a prophetic title, the perpetuation of our political institutions, and he spoke passionately about the adverse consequences of rejecting the rule of law. because all lawyers share an interest in promoting law, ours is a collaborative profession. it is a mistake for lawyers to treat opposing counsel as the enemy. litigation is not warfare. your goal is not to destroy the opponent. that is not what zealous advocacy requires. opposing counsel is a fellow member of the bar fulfilling a solemn duty, just like you. if you keep that in mind, your career will be much more rewarding. you will develop lifelong friendships with some of the lawyers who litigate against you. in the taming of the shrew, shakespeare counsels people to conduct themselves as adversaries do in law, strive mightily, but eat and drink as friends. president lincoln brought that spirit of lawyerly collegiality with him to our nation's capital. when he delivered his first inaugural address in 1861, americans were literally at war with each other. but lincoln refused to treat his opponents as enemies. he insisted that we are not enemies, but friends. we must not be enemies. though passion may have strained, it must not break our bonds of affection. so to be a successful lawyer, develop the habit of treating everyone with respect, regardless of their station in life. my teenage daughters introduced me to a country song written by lori mckenna that captures everything i tried to teach them about character. hold the door, say please, say thank you. don't steal, don't cheat, and don't lie. i know you've got mountains to climb, but always stay humble and kind. the song concludes with an admonition to take the time to pay it forward to the next generation, when you get where you're going, don't forget to turn back around and help the next one in line, al

lincoln's death, but it is a deep wish that the politics of the war be buried with lincoln. douglass wanted to believe that story, but he lives of course, 30 more years to realize that by and large, it wasn't. it wasn't. his belief that it certainly was, initially, is there in his reactions to the immediate postwar. >> and in his wish for the war to come at all. >> he clearly was looking for something that could solve the problem? prof. blight: yes, and then john brown came in he realized what john brown was going to do. but at the and of the war, at least the way douglass remembers it, he thought that he had won. he called it his congregation abandoned, his church was gone -- meaning his abolitionist movement -- what is a radical reformer do when you your cause wins? dickenson was a completely unreconstructed anti-confederate. >> very much with the war r in marche did a tou of the confederacy in i think 1873, where she draws huge her.s of people who hate it is very interesting because the press would not cover her, but the people would show up. i think it was in virginia, i forget now, she is talking to a southern white woman who is right out of kerry jennings' first book, and the are talking about the war, this is in the early 1870's. commandrefers to the this woman says, that general lee. and i think he says, i will have none of that. he was not a general. and so these two sort of highly politicized women 10 years after the war are not giving up any ground on this notion of conciliation at all. probablyay, that is the best way to think about dickenson. she will always be. associated with the union war effort and her hatred of the confederacy. >> one other thing to add there, i had do not know if cynthia is still here, she teaches at the law school here, one of the scholars who is very closely affiliated with the center. she has written about the idea among lawyers of the concept of trial by battle. and many of them actually applied that to the civil war. this was how it was going to be worked out if it was not told by lawyers in the way that lawyers usually salt things, that it would be tried on the battlefield and the result would be obvious as in the supreme >> this war as arbitrator. >> this can be a quick one. of --estion is in light if anna dickenson had trouble .ith a chaperone especially when she's young during the war years, she's essentially a perpetual houseguest. she is a must staying in the homes of people who she knew met on the road. she has an -- there is no indication he has a chaperone. with him orravels loan. did annallow-up is dickenson have male suitors? >> it would appear that a huge proportion of men and women film attlee in love with her. that is the short version. there is a long version, but there you go. >> that's called a trailer. >> i wonder if i could find a book. biography is jay matthew's biography. .e had pestered me before published by oxford university press and remains available. you can find it online as you can find everything. to get one, asge david said, almost instantaneously, you can even make -- this is along the incidence of the speaking tours. assassination? >> yes. 1843 he was inrificed at this he was -- mob. in 1893 he was in a he had everything thrown at him. he had a live pigs thrown at him at church. small pig. , frankly,onished me seriously. we talk about guns in american culture but people didn't bring firearms to attack him. they would attack him with eggs and stone. it was part of the purpose. to go out and get audiences to respond. when an audience really responded with hostility, --etimes it would happen he got threats all the time. there are some examples in the papers. sometimes they are canceled because of threats. >> you opened yourself to this one and they are following up on it. can you elaborate on the connection. those are very short. the other, about an hour and a half. both have a rebirth metaphor. rebirth of the central metaphor. lincoln and douglas, by that winter of 63 and 64 have come grudgingly to almost the same script. at least it now metaphor. the first amendment -- first american union is being destroyed. an they would has to be created. that's what the mission speech is all about. douglas --elieve no one had a. of he didn't know. that's one of the funniest lines in the film lincoln. quoting the gettysburg address. bogglinglyf mind ludicrous. lincoln couldn't have quoted the gettysburg address at that stage of the war. coverage did douglas's speech get in the press? >> a great deal. >> including quotations and comments. >> long passages. although that is postwar. his son hired a clipping service so that everywhere his father went, he gave his speech in , there would be a clipping from topeka. huge audiences. sometimes people gathered outdoors being told what was being said. we would never do that. >> people talked for more than three minutes. >> began of someone who's talked for more than three minutes. a majo

lincoln had lived? of course, there is no real way to know that because lincoln, as a person and as a always tended to to thes cards very close chest. he was a very reticent, shut his friend david davis described him and he was like that on personal matters and he was like that on matters, and he certainly was like that on reconstruction. like to bind himself too securely to what might turn millstone. he wanted to be free to xperiment, and he did try to experiment with various

lincoln. time that she was up there, president lincoln took she couldnd told her, no longer come back because he ound out she was sending money and medicines in her petticoat to bring them across the arricaded lines of the confederacy. she died here in selma. he memorial you see hyped us was carved, in marble, in italy. her husband sent it back to have he said her ause hair was not as beautiful as her person.s in she's the one who was part of the women's memorial association that, and she's the one who laid out the confederate circle which next. be going to we're now in confederate circle founded after the war. todd dawson's husband, nathaniel dawson is the one who planted the trees we see here. the magnolias.nd part of the lady's memorial association which became the nited daughters of the confederacy, and she wanted to area, where they could memorialize those who fought in the war. the land to be used to circle.his confederate in the circle there are graves confederate soldiers who were interred here plus the monument 1878 to built in commemorate the lost cause. confederate are buried remai

lincoln's 100 days. phrase that that military necessity was all over the northern press before lincoln put it into the document. given how things turned out, the message of proclamation is crucial militarily to the victory. it is not hard to rewrite that narrative with lincoln losing 1864 and had he lost, we would say the emancipation proclamation is what killed him. >> that is why he invited douglass to that meeting. >> the republicans and you know this, they were in trouble in the summer of 1864. they did not run as the republican party. as all of you know. they ran as the union party. they thought it would have broader appeal than being republicans. union is not tainted with emancipation. they got andrew johnson on the ticket. it does not matter who divides. the democrats were not fooled. oh, they are unionists now. >> i was on a panel last week about the emancipation proclamation. they get it out once a year. you can read parts of it but every time they do, they get lines outdoors. >> it is sold out. >> it is the one document that drives crowds outdoors because there it is. it has a symbolic power like nothing else. >> the point you made about douglass saying it frees everyone. we fail to appreciate how much people like douglass and others in lincoln's

taft are interred here as well as robert todd lincoln, first son of abraham lincoln is also buried hereere are other 400 medal of honor recipients interred here, including general arthur mcc mcarthur and general murphy. you will walk by his grave on the other side of memorial drive as we process down to lay the wreaths upon the new monument. i would submit to you that all that we do, in fact, we owe to those who have preceded us and those who will follow us, for our time is done. as most of you are aware, there are nine aviators and eight crew members who have received the medal of honor. two of them are with us today. there are two medal of honor offices buried. he, in fact, served at age 48, the oldest medal of honor recipient in our history. if you walk back down to the women's memorial for our reception, you will pass mike's grave and the grave of major ed freeman, too tall he was called. he, in fact, evacuate waited 30 seriously wounded from the battle featured in the wonderful movie "we were soldiers once and young." pause a minute in your time as you walk down or ride down, visit

conservative northern democrats who opposed lincoln, copperheads who opposed lincoln and emancipation and now opposed black citizenship joined with confederates in condemning james longstreet. the new hampshire patriot and gazette cast longstreet as a dupe who debased himself only to receive absolution from the hands of the radicals. "longstreet eats dirt with a hearty relish. it evidently agrees with him. it seems to be his natural diet. it added did the gallant rebel ever hear of the spider's invitation?" the bedford gazette of pennsylvania tore a page out of a democratic playbook by arguing that there was a national affinity between radical republicans on one extreme and secessionists, as both sets were educators who were disunionists. this paper wrote it was only natural that these radicals took to the general as fleas to a dog. no other newspaper came close to its anti-longstreet investments of the old guard, the new york copperhead paper edited by chauncey burr. burke loaded with glee the editor that wished longstreet died in the wilderness and offered its own indictment of long

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lincoln in 1876. in which he said, the best meditation on the nature of history and the reality of it. he is praising lincoln, but he says lincoln, it was preeminently the white man's president. we were at best stepchildren, his children by adoption. yet, this is a man who had delivered us from bondage. and he says, interesting as, this is the scene of the end of the -- having to move forward and life and death. this is the very start and uncompromising view that the best we can hope for is somebody doing the right thing just more than half the time. and i think as bad as a guiding principle, i think that gives us a better sense of proportion about the problems of our own time. >> a lot of criticism for that moment on august 17 of last year. the president's comments about the violence. do you think donald trump is redeemable? >> absolutely. you can't hold out hope and then say, but not for him. i think, of course. there's not a ton of evidence, but intellectual honesty requires you to say, we all learn. we are all informed by experience. and our hope has to be that he decides that if i had five minutes with him, i would say we k

i speak as reporting into lincoln is a big lincoln is leaving the hit abc show after its ninth season on his movie career. the walking dead, one of the talk shows has dipped in the ratings in recent e-zine says viewership has declined in some fans they made the just time to end the show on the note that it's on now. we shall see. gerri: never understood that. the new national anthem policy. cheryl: jared max with that story. >> good morning, cheryl. good morning, transfer. next tuesday, super bowl champions will visit president trump. chris vaughn, malcolm jenkins. an ally of the anthem protest movement as he held his fist in the outcome of both opposed the new policy on the anthem which mandates players who choose to be on the field for the end to that they stand for the anthem is there in the field. the nfl owners decision to make this change. they are afraid of the president. it is their right, but the clumsy world. it is real, but it's only going to get messier. new york giants linebacker, popular player has beaten cancer from a strong community leader, member of the nfl associati

the civil war, chief justice tani, who had served from 1836 until 1864 , ruled that lincoln's actions were illegal. lincoln ignored him. after the civil war, the country grew greatly. appeals increased dramatically. in an effort to decrease the workload, congress created the regional circuit to which we refer to a moment ago. bottom carbon copy, and what wonders -- one wonders what he was asked to read and sign. congress asked to pass legislation giving the court full jurisdiction. previously, there were so many appeals that the state court had no choice as a matter of rights to be heard. that was a great burden on the court, because a lot of cases were not worthy of the attention of the supreme court. it takes the vote of four to agree to bring the case up. at present, the supreme court is receiving about 8000 requests for review each year. it's granting and hearing about 80 cases, 1%. it was hearing about 160 cases, and the number of cases heard has been going down. the supreme court and the federal judiciary as a whole -- there are more judges, there are more buildings, but the structure of the system r

lincoln. a man who seems to provide the moral foundation for this book. you talk about a battle on the outskirts of washington, where lincoln was so everybodying the battle. he almost got killed. a man next to him was shot and killed. somebody said get down, you fool. it's a fitting metaphor for abraham lincolneeing the slaves and saving the union. even though in 1864, for most of 1864, his own re-election was highly in doubt. >> absolutely. and lincoln is one of the great -- one of the many tragedies of ford's theater is he's one of the examples, as was president kennedy. it was a clear example of a president learning and growing on the job. lincoln starts out saying slavery can exist where it is, he's not going to touch it. he moves to the emancipation proclamations ultimately. and reconstruction would arguably have been a very different story had the man who had learned and grown been in charge. the scene you allude to is the last time the confederates got this close. it was the confederate general who later became a pillar of the lost cause. lincoln goes out and the man who said get down, you damn fool, was oliver wendell holmes. right after, one of the regim t regiments that fought in that battle wallas the 166th ohio. there was a tradition that they would come to see the president befo

lincoln? >> no, not lincoln. anybody? >> roosevelt? >> no. >> i hereby demand. >> stunning. >> erdogan and putin say that. >> this is maggie trump who is being investigated by a department of justice appointed special counsel consulted with his attorney on his order to the doj to investigate the investigation into himself. >> why do you go to your personal attorney, why do you go to your white house counsel? that's why they're there. this deals with the constitution this isn't a porn star pay-off. this has to do with the constitution of the united states and upholding checks and balances that madison gave us 1787. >> he's not interested in the checks and balances that madison gave us. and the second part is this is a political strategy. this isn't about the constitution. this is about trying to get him out of trouble and create a diversion from what bob mueller is looking into. >> welcome to "morning joe" as we back into everything this morning. it's tuesday, may 22nd. with us we have msnbc contributor mike barnicle. fellow in global and comparative politics -- >> mike, not to keep interrupting. mike backed into a garbage truck the other day. they're going to take his license away. >> mike -- no. >> kids are trying to take away your license, aren't they in. >> sort of, yeah. >> all right. fellow and dploebl in comparative politics at the london school of economics, brian closs. >> how are the twins doing? >> not good. >> what's happening with the twins right now. >> they had a good start to the season and fell apart. >> what's happening? >> they won yesterday, in the eighth, they came from behind. overall, it's a disappointing season for the minnesota twins fan. >> brian's book, "how to rig an election" we'll get to that this morning and in washington, nbc news capitol hill correspondent and host of kasie d.c. on msnbc, kasie hunt. >> you wanted to start the show differently. willie and i you know what we do before the show. we go down the newsletter and the orphanage and we do that work at least. but on the way up from the orphanage, i just -- i saw i think it was guy vincent had tweeted out, hey, i'm all for investigating what we need to investigate. there's one thing that keeps bothering me. that is, if the deep state was really conspiring so elect donald trump, i just can't sort through this. why, why did they keep the investigation of donald trump private before the election, but of course comey sent out the letter ten days before -- i got to say -- if that in fact was the deep state trying to play puppet master, they are really bad at what they do. and "the new york times," one of the few times we'll say this "the new york times" editorial board, they write this about trump v. the department of justice. write quote there was a sophisticated multi-year conspiracy by russian government officials and agents, working underdirect orders from president vladimir putin to interfere in the 2016 presidential election of donald trump. full stop. donald trump's intel chiefs that he put in place all agree with that fact. let me continue. the american law enforcement and intelligence communities warned of the trump campaign during 2016 about this multi-year effort by vladimir putin to rig america's elections, which all of donald trump's intel chiefs said, they in fact did. and they asked both campaigns to report anything suspicious. now kids, you may have heard the department of homeland security after 9/11 say, if you see something, say something. that's what the intel communities did here. they told the clinton campaign and the trump campaign -- hey, there's a multi-year effort by the russians to interfere with america's 2016 election. if he see anything, anything at all that's suspicious, this is obviously very dangerous. one of our sworn enemies trixting to influence the outcome of the presidential election. let us know. get what the trump campaign did -- the campaign did nothing. to the contrary, writes "the new york times," at least seven trump campaign officials met with russians or people linked to russia. and several seem ed eager to accept the russians' help. as the fbi became aware of these contacts, it began to investigate. and yet the bureau went to great lengths to shield this investigation from becoming public even before the election. even as james comey, then the fbi director, spoke openly about the investigation into hillary clinton's private email server. these facts, write "the new york times" and i'm sure guy vincent and trump's own appointed intel chiefs are not in dispute. so the question has to be, brian closs -- how does devin nunes with a straight face, how does mark meadows with a straight face, how does rudy giuliani, with a straight face -- say the sort of things that donald trump wants him to say, when it is beyond debate that everything the guy benson, that "the new york times" that all of us have been saying for some time, that all of these things happened. the russians were trying to interfere, the fbi was warning both campaigns. the trump campaign -- we haven't seen anything. even mike pence, lying through his teeth, after the trumps were sworn in, lying through his teeth saying we never spoke to russians. >> well, because they're orchestrating a political campaign to politicize the rule of law in america and they're trying to do it to save the president's skin. even if it means hurting american national security. even if it means eroding democratic principles and institutions. even if it means sacrificing their own personal integrity that they tried to build for their careers. i think the strongest parallels 2014 in turkey when president erdogan facing a corruption investigation. he called it a witch hunt. he fired prosecutors and he purged the equivalent of the department of justice. this sounds really familiar, right. and they chipped away at it slowly, day after day and i think that's what we're in the midst of, democratic decay, we accept new normals, that were previously unacceptable by republicans and democrats and are now just daily life. >> and where's paul ryan? where's mitch mcconnell. >> something you said yesterday, that's the most disappointing because they should know better. paul ryan, mike pence, they have all the angles, all the experience, they absolutely positively know better. and have chose ton do the wrong thing. >> instead, willie, they're lumping olump i lurching out on something, the controversial version of the new coke. this doesn't end well. this guy trump, he goes away, he leaves a stain on the legacy of mike pence and leaves a stain on the legacy of paul ryan and leaves a stain on the legacy of devin nunes and leaves a stain on megcy of mark meadows and leaves a stain on of mitch mcconnell. he leaves a stain on the legacy of of every republican that will not raise their voice, at a critical crossroads of this constitutional republic, where the president of the united states is interfering with an investigation into the president's operation and willie, by the way, this is after the president's campaign manager. has been indicted. this is after. the president's head of national security has been indicted in and it cooperating. this is after the man that the president said was one of his top foreign policy advisers has been indicted and is cooperating. this is after one of the guys that ran trump's campaign, helped in the inauguration committee, and even was working the white house at the beginning was indicted and is now cooperating and how many russians? 13 russian nationals, three russian companies all indicted. and yet -- trump is trying to interfere with actually one of the most brutally efficient investigations in modern u.s. history. and republicans are saying nothing. >> and clearly, the president is worried about what bob mule certificate working on because he doesn't know what bob mueller has. mueller appears to be three, four, five months ahead of what we all know publicly. when you see the allegations about the middle eastern contacts during the campaign. all of these things that seep out from behind the scenes, these are things we didn't know were happening. that's got to worry trump and that's why you see diversions and why you see meetings like the ones you'll see today. the white house will gather lawmakers and intelligence officials for a meeting on a secret fbi source, the "washington post" described it as either a concession from the justice department or maneuver to buy time and shield actual documents, yesterday president trump met for an hour at the white house with deputy a.g. rod ros rosenstein as well as fbi director christopher wray and national intelligence director dan coats after trump posted on twitter, i hereby demand and will do so officially that the department of justice look into the whether or not the fbi/doj infiltrated or surveilled the trump campaign. in a statement after the meeting. white house reaffirmed a doj inspector general review and added it was also agreed that white house chief of staff kelly will immediately set up a meeting with the fbi/doj and dni together with congressional leaders to review highly classified and other information they have requested. the decision means congressional republicans like nunes can access information on what if any use the fbi made of a secret source during the russia investigation. something he has been demanding. yesterday morning at c.i.a. headquarters, president trump praised nunes. >> a very courageous man, he's courageous. congressman devin nunes. thank you very much, devin for being here. >> that's the president praising devin nunes whole will get a look at the classified information from the russian investigation. >> so much has been coming at us, is this the same devin nunes that held a press conference at the capital. >> he went scurrying to the white house. >> said i have information i must pass along to the white house that will -- it had to do with -- i have important information that i -- let me be perfectly clear, i am taking to the white house and i am not a crook. and then he comes out, and to the white house, and he's been given information -- inside the white house. >> who does that? >> after lying to reporters, saying i must go -- he's nothing but a floor fied courier. >> i believe they call it the midnight run. >> didn't charles grodin. >> he was great in that movie. >> grodin. one of the greats. >> "heaven can wait" with warren beatty, was grodin not great? >> and -- >> stay focused. >> willie, i got you. >> so this is a quote from the president of the united states. remember the interview in december with michael schmidt on the terrace at mar-a-lago. he told michael schmidt of the "new york times," i have the absolute right to do what i want to do with the justice department. that's the way he thinks. >> he hereby demands. that's the way he thinks and that's what he's doing today with that. >> let's go to kasie hunt. is the doj capitulating or buying time? >> one of my questions is whether or not democrats are going to be able to see this information as well. typically you would offer classified intelligence to a very select but bipartisan group of people and the details on this are so fuzzy. i think we can anticipate that today. i want to go back to paul ryan for a second. we touched on that, but let's, let's not underestimate the degree to which he is enabling and has enabled devin nunes in all of this and how many times he's appeared to be caught flat-footed by, in his understanding or apparent lack thereof of how it's going to play out politically. he said we have to know where there are fights of abuses -- fisa abuses, it has nothing to do with robert mueller. that construction is fundamentally not what is going on here with the freedom caucus. >> so is paul ryan mr. good guy act. oh, gee, i just care about policy. i don't know this politics stuff. had is the that tishtick this rn doing for years now. paul is not dumb enough to actually think the two are separated. nobody believes paul is dumb. he's a very smart man, right. is this just shtick. just gee whiz, oh gosh, go pac, yeah. devin, go ahead and go ahead and undermine the constitution. i mean what's going on with paul ryan he has to know. he's got to be able to link these two things together, right? >> i honestly think based on my conversations around this as they have unfolded over the last couple of months, i honestly think he got caught flat-footed in how quickly this moved. who -- kasie, who are his advisers? i was not allowed to like go to the bathroom at the wrong time in congress. if it didn't look right. hey well of course, you want to go to the men's bathroom. exactly. i was like mr. mcgoo. but if i was going to drop a bill as one of 435 like back-benchers, my staff would look through the building, no, this doesn't look right. paul ryan is the speaker of the house, while constitutional norms are being ripped to shreds. have we to believe that paul ryan and his staff member does not know what is going on here? that this is what erdogan did in 2014. not what americans have done since james madison and hamilton sketched together the united states constitution? is he really that out in the dark? are his advisers really that out in the dark? >> i think you have to remember the political reality that paul ryan has been living with for the past years. what made him speaker of the house and that was, the mandate to manage this group of people on his right, the freedom caucus broadly defined and to not let them tear the republican conference apart and he has continued to try to governor that way on this particular issue and there at a higher cost. >> a at what point, because this guy is leaving. >> and now he's a lame duck. >> i'm just curious, i don't know, paul, i've known paul since he's 23. i've always tone people i loved paul. i was so thrilled when mitt romney picked him to be his vice president. but at what point does paul ryan stop worrying about the republican party and start worrying about the republic? we're at that point now, is there a realization, kasie, on the hill that we are at that point? >> we've been talked so much about this. people sound so different when the cameras aren't on behind the scenes. everybody, i feel like most people that i talk to in both parties, obviously the degree of outrage and concern varies there are some republicans who will say all right everybody just needs to take the temperature down. for the most part people are in fact you know, they have their jaws on the floor. they use swear words that we can't use on tv when they talk about this presidency. they won't say it in public. >> you can use those words on this show, we have a seven-second delay. >> you can, i won't. >> you got to be one when you're leading. >> i don't understand it, mike. i actually heard, i always hear thing about bill clintonin, the would go on tv and scream in his defense. i understand this goes and works for both parties. but mike -- not to cover old ground, but, god, it was very goldwater, firebrand, conservative, the really the founder of a modern conservative movement, that drove to the white house and told nixon -- it's over. and -- we're not even asking paul ryan to do that. we're just asking paul ryan to pick up the phone and go, hey, devin, listen, you're my buddy, you've been loyal to me, i understand. but you've stepped over the line. mark meadows, you've stepped over the line. you want to make me on, you want to divide the party before i leave? you can do that, but you're going to lose. you'll have the votes in the short run, but you're going to destroy the republican party. >> i've been sitting here and listening to this for 10 or 12 minutes. i have to tell you the truth, it is so sad and so depressing. we're talking about the united states of america -- unaptly named freedom caucus. the disassembling has worked. it has worked. you go out to the country and ask you people what do you think about this? they say what is going on. the freedom caucus. you want to take the freedom caucus? the root of this the root of this occurred nearly two and a half years ago when every american intelligence service, the c.i.a., the fbi, the nsa, realized that the russians were attacking the foundations of our democracy, our electoral system. we don't talk about that. people don't know about that. the freedom caucus never -- mark meadows and jim jordan never mentioned the fact that we were victims of an act of war. >> we have a commander-in-chief -- >> who is not defending the republic. >> whose intel chiefs, that he appointed. let me say it again -- that he appointed, not barack obama, not bill clinton. not karl marx, trump appointed these intel chiefs. who all said the russians have attacked our democracy, they are still trying to attack our democracy. and the republican party and their president doesn't give a damn? let me say it again, the russians are attacking american democracy according to trump's intel chiefs. the republicans don't care. >> and now these republicans, devin nunes, i don't know who else will be with him, they're about to get a peek at the foundations of intelligence-gathering, they're about to get a peek at sources, the most important element of gathering intelligence, human intelligence, human sources, they're about to see what's going on. you're going to tell me that they're not going to leak that? they're not going to twist that? they've done so much damage already, why stop now. >> what it looks like around the world, the damage being done, day by day. >> live outside the united states and it's a disaster. the pew research did a survey looking at confidence between obama's presidency and trump and it's down 75% in germany. 70% in france. 57% in the uk and 54% in japan. >> and we've become the butt of jokes around the world. >> trump is viewed as a tragic dangerous laughingstock in most of the places that used to be our key allies. >> i don't care what they think about us in luxembourg. but it matters. by the way, especially matters when the president is blowing up the iran nuclear deal. and you've got to get the other parties to actually work with you on sanctions. and it matters when there's a terrorist attack and we've got to get our allies to work with us and in germany -- >> germanys view russia as a more reliable partner than the united states. >> you know why? because you can predict what russia is going to do. you can no longer predict what donald trump is going to do. take tariffs. >> he can't make a decision on tariffs. >> the entire international community is thrown into an uproar because trump is going to do tariffs, going to do this, going to do that. his treasury secretary comes out and goes, oh, no, we're not. and then the next day, somebody else comes out and says, well, maybe we are. >>> still ahead, the principle sez, the president and the fortune seekers. a new a.p. investigation on a converted effort to raise favor with the trump team raises serious concerns. this is a story about mail and packages. and it's also a story about people. people who rely on us every day to deliver their dreams they're handing us more than mail they're handing us their business and while we make more e-commerce deliveries to homes than anyone else in the country, we never forget... that your business is our business the united states postal service. priority: you ♪ one picky customer shouldn't take all your time. need something printed? the business advisors at office depot can assist with exactly what your business needs to grow. get your coupon for 20% off services, technology and more ed mom, dad, can we talk? sure. what's up son? i can't be your it guy anymore. what? you guys have xfinity. you can do this. what's a good wifi password, mom? you still have to visit us. i will. no. make that the password: "you_stillóhave_toóvisit_us." that's a good one. [ chuckles ] download the xfinity my account app and set a password you can easily remember. one more way comcast is working to fit into your life, not the other way around. ed. >>> a lengthy report from the "associated press" based on hundreds of pages of leaked emails and dozens of interviews reveals a story of money, power and foreign policy in trump's washington. as an adviser to gulf princes, george nader, now a cooperating witness in the mueller probe and republican fundraiser elliott broady, sought lucrative foreign contracts trading off their access to the president. summaries written by brudy, of two meetings he had with president trump report that he was passing messages to the president from the crown princes of saudi arabia and the united arab emiratesings that he told trump he was seeking business with them. the white house did not respond to repeated requests for comment. joining us now is the co-author of this a.p. investigation reporter on their international investigate i have been team, desmond butler. desmond, good morning this is the tip of the iceberg in this exhaustive report and george nader and brudy are not the only ones who sought to get lucrative contracts off access to the president. >> i'm sure that's true. >> tell us more about nader. >> well, george nader is a guy who has been an operative between washington and the middle east for decades, he's also a convicted pedophile. but he had access to the crown princes in the united arab emirates, the crown prince of abu dhabi and in saudi arabia. >> and so, what exactly did he promise these men? and why did he think he could deliver on it? >> well the gist was, that he could, through elliott brudy, get access to the president. and to members of congress and pretty much everywhere in washington. and the purpose was to change u.s. foreign policy. in the way that those two countries wanted it to be changed. >> did you see any evidence, desmond, that he succeeded in that goal in getting these men access to the president? >> elliott brudy had two meetings with president trump. one right in the oval office. and he carried important political messages straight from, from the crown princes, as far as we can tell. at least if you can believe his summaries of the meetings. >> mike barnicle? >> desmond. in the course of your reporting, did you get the sense that the uae and other countries in the middle east felt that they had a more receptive audience in the trump administration than in prior administrations, to doing things just like this? buying their way in? >> one of the really interesting things is that elliott brudy claims that he met george nader at the inauguration. and they were up and running within weeks. so if they had any doubt that they could navigate the swamp, they didn't show it. and you know, i think, i think the speed at which this happens shows a lot about the attitudes from both the two men and the two countries. >> desmond, we've had reports that brudy paid off a mistress or at least those were the initial reports. through michael cohen. is there any suggestion that it may have been for someone else other than brudy? or is that where the story still is? or was brudy just used as a cover? >> people have made that suggestion. i wouldn't speculate. >> okay. >> well if you don't have the evidence -- >> avenatti has speculated on our show. >> we speculate. >> i'm joking. >> a.p.'s desmond butler, greatly appreciate it. >> so there's a column in the "washington post" laying out the five political norms that president trump violated in the past seven days. among them, revealing intelligence sources. that involves congressman devin nunes demanding the name of an fbi informant. >> let's stop right there. >> that's kind of a problem. brian, this is what the republicans were most fearful of during the year and a half investigation into hillary clinton's emails. that because she was reckless with her emails, that she may have either revealed methods, or revealed sources. she did neither. but now donald trump, devin nunes and others have in the light of day. how dangerous is that? >> it's extremely dangerous. it's stunning hypocrisy and there's this angle where they just don't care. we have now grown used to republicans -- >> we're not supposed to get used to it. >> they're accepting that trump careerly and blatantly cares more about himself than in public security. that is something that should not be an open secret with an american president. >> back to the list by max boot. there's politically motivated prosecutions, namely the president's tweet, hereby demanding a dmartment of justice investigation. there's mixing, private and government business, in this case, china, giving a half billion dollars to a trump-linked project in indonesia. >> and again i want to go back to the clintons. we were and a lot of other people were rightly concerned about bill clinton's speech fees, weren't these the quaint, good old days, mike, when we were concerned about bill clinton getting $500,000 a speech instead of $250,000 a speech after hillary clinton became secretary of state? and could give speeches in areas that had business in front of the state department and were trying to change policies? that's -- >> a calculator at home, that's a $250,000 difference. we're talking here about half a billion dollars. that china has pumped in to, into a project that has the trump organization all over it. >> well we were just talking with desmond butler from the "associated press" and now we're talking about this. the white house has been turned into a money pit. by the people surrounding the president of the united states. and it's an endless line of grifters. people with their hands out. people using, using the assumed power of the presidency, assumed access to the president of the united states to turn a buck. >> there is foreign interference in u.s. elections, that's number four. max boot points to 75 characters that we know of between the trump campaign and the russia-linked operatives along with new revelations of other countries looking for influence. this list is for the past seven days. >> and kasie hunt -- i want to go back to mike pence who lied the week after donald trump was sworn in on one of the sunday shows said that there had been no contact between the trump campaign and russia. he lied and said well, golly, gee whiz, we've only been talking to the american people. extraordinary lie. >> for, mike pence's role in this or lack thereof is one of the most interesting story lines throughout this. it rarely pops up into the top of our consciousness as we talk about this. for him to say they'll also tell you privately he was unaware of any of this going on. he was not part of the campaign when the trump tower meeting happened. i think i've said this before, that it's not hard to find somebody inside the trump orbit that will be quick to tell and to insist usually off the record or on background, that you know, the president, the vice president had nothing to do with this. there's nothing to see here. i thought it was remarkable that he stepped into this story in that interview he did with andrea mitchell where he said it's time for mueller to wrap it up. because he had been pretty carefully steering clear of it and i kind of, it made me wonder what kind of pressure he was under from the president on this topic. >> it's time for muler to wrap it up. >> that's where he lifted the words from richard nixon's joint session speech to congress in january of 1974. literally said the same thing, that nixon said four months ehrlichman and halderman and most of his campaign and white house staff got indicted. it's really interesting, mike pence playing dumb. i wonder how the trump campaign explains that someone that they derided as a coffee boy, papadopoulos, just a coffee boy, nobody knows who papadopoulos is, that papadopoulos knew more than the vice president of the united states? coffee boy knew more than the vice president of the united states? >> this does matter. because we love this country. so here's the fifth. just in the last seven days. undermining the first amendment. here it's the president attacking amazon in what the column describes as a vendetta against the "washington post," which is owned by amazon's ceo jeff bezos, trump has a problem with him so he's using this country its laws and his power to try to hurt him. >> four times, four fims. president of the united states, was it five times, said he went to the postmaster, four times and put pressure on him, to change a policy, the president of the united states four times, calls the postmaster and pressures him to alter rates for u.s. mail, to harm a political adversary. that i guerin-freakin'-tee has never happened, at least in recent american history. >> imagine a president so obsessed with his own self-interests that he's making calls to the postmaster general about amazon. because he doesn't like the way the "washington post" has treated him. it goes back to brian's point of self-interest for his national interest. and as you wonder where paul ryan has been, where are conservatives about the hand of government, in facts the hand of the executive, the chief executive of government, putting his hand on a private business to control it and to tell it to change its rates to please him? that's the least conservative thing i've ever heard. >> and the hypocrisy, brian, because we conservatives have always been skeptical of the president that hamilton wanted in the federalist papers. we always held up madison, because he was so, so, had such a stringent standard for separations of power. and these hypocrits that call themselves conservatives, these hypocrits, who call themselves republicans, don't say a word. when the chief executive is battering the u.s. postmaster saying -- alter rates for u.s. mail. because i want my political adversary armed. >> it's a test of their political lives. we have a situation in which the founding fathers anticipated a demagogue like trump. they didn't anticipate that congress would be complicit with him. >> the shock and horror is because we love our country. coming up, how to rig an election, brian closs takes us through his book and jon meachum joins the conversation. >> by the way, if you think, if this is too much for you, if you can't handle the truth -- if you're thinking, oh, it's just one, "morning joe" is just one. yeah, guess what? a fire department has one focus. when there's like a four-alarm fire, all right? so if you don't want to hear the truth, you can change the channel. we'll be right back. you totanobody's hurt, new car. but there will still be pain. it comes when your insurance company says they'll only pay three-quarters of what it takes to replace it. what are you supposed to do? drive three-quarters of a car? now if you had liberty mutual new car replacement™, you'd get your whole car back. i guess they don't want you driving around on three wheels. smart. with liberty mutual new car replacement™, we'll replace the full value of your car. liberty stands with you™. liberty mutual insurance. one picky customer shouldn't take all your time. need something printed? the business advisors at office depot can assist with exactly what your business needs to grow. get your coupon for 20% off services, technology and more at office depot and officedepot.com. technology and more my mom washes the dishes... ...before she puts them in the dishwasher. so what does the dishwasher do? 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>> what a life. what a grand meaningful impactful life. i've known dick for 50 years and i first met him in a small room in a dunfy hotel on elm street in manchester, new hampshire, after he left the white house, worked briefly for the "new yorker" magazine and gone to new hampshire to try to help end the war in vietnam. by helping gene mccarthy by writing speeches and a small olivetti portable typewriter on the desk when i walked into the room and he turned to the typewriter and said, between that typewriter and all of us, we're going to end this war. he said that not with arrogance, but with meaning, with intent. with purpose and we missed that sense of purpose, that sense of moral code for government and for people who want to govern. we miss that and we miss him today. >> you saw him just, just -- >> my wife and i and doris and the boys, joey and michael, we were with dick on saturday. he told, he was, he came alive for a while. and began telling stories, told a marvelous story about his relationship with che guevarra, meeting him in cuba. cast castro, che guevarra gave him a box of cigars and dick took it back to the white house on air force with the president. dick went to president kennedy and said guevarra gave it to us and he wants to solve something between the two countries. he opened up the box of cigars and kennedy grabbed one and lit it and c.i.a. looked at dick and said i suppose you should have been the first one to smoke this. >> john he obviously wrote the "ripple of hope" speech for kennedy. it strikes me as i hear stories about his life that we're losing these firsthand links to the kennedys, to lyndon johnson, to the civil rights movement. the people who were there as you said at the moments these pivotal moments of history. >> it's funny. time plays these kinds of tricks, but the kennedy white house and the johnson white house, we're now farther away from that era than they were from the new deal. which puts us all kind of which makes us seem older all the time. but it's one of the reasons that the literary legacy of someone like goodwin is most important. he wrote a marvelous book called "remembering america, a memoir of the '60s" which i can't commend highly enough. he walks through the quiz shows, rfk, jfk, lbj. and he's one of the few people who bridged those two very different worlds within the kennedy and the johnson eras and it was the power and ability to write quickly and so well and to understand in his bones what america could be and in the goodwin vision, in that era, the idea was how can we more generously interpret the assertion of equality in american life? how can we live up to that? and he gave voice to that inchoate and yet very real desire. >> he gave voice not only for americans but for people across the world and the ripple of hope speech delivered by bobby kennedy on june 6, 1966, two years to the day before he died one of the most remarkable speeches and the most inspiring speeches i ever read. each time a man stands up for an ideal or acts to improve the lot of others or strikes out against injustice he sends forth a tiny ripple of hope and crossing each other from a million different centers of energy and daring, those ripples build a current which can sweep down the mightiest walls of oppression and resistance. spoken to the students of south africa before american politicians ever dared to say such things. >> and we wish men could do that today. jon meacham, your book "the soul of america" number one. thank you very much. we'll be right back. bp's natural gas teams use smart app technology to share data from any well instantly. so they can analyze trends and stop potential problems in their tracks. because safety is never being satisfied and always working to be better. my gums are irritated. i don't have to worry about that, do i? 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[ laughter ] >> it's true. it's horrifying. welcome back to "morning joe," it's tuesday, may 22. still with us, we have msnbc contributor mike barnicle, fellow in global and comparative politics at the london school of economics and co-author of the new book "how to rig an election." brian klaas. host of kasie d.c., kasie hundredhunt and associate editor of the "washington post," eugene robinson. also with us, chief white house correspondent for the "new york times" peter baker. >> i think we need a lightning bolt in front of peter baker. >> it's been watching -- to watch kasie's enthusiasm wayne over the months the smile has gotten a little less wide. >> she loves it. >> do you even know who foghat is? because there's a foghat rock block coming up in your next show. >> wow. okay, moving on. >>> the white house will gather lawmakers and intelligence officials for a meeting on a secret fbi source. the "washington post" describes it as either a concession from the justice department or a maneuver to buy time and shield actual documents. yesterday, president trump met for an hour at the white house with rod rosenstein, seen leaving there, as well as the fbi director christopher wray and national intelligence director dan coats. after trump posted on twitter "i hereby demand --" yes, he said that "and will do so officially that the department of justice look into whether or not the fbi/doj infiltrated or surveilled the trump campaign for political purposes and if any such demands or requests were made by people within the obama administration. in a statement after the meeting, the white house reaffirmed a doj inspector genre view and added it was also agreed that white house chief of staff kelly will immediately set up a meeting with the fbi, doj, and dni together with the congressional leaders to review highly classified and other information they have requested. the decision means congressional republicans like intelligence chair devin nunes can access information on what, if any use the fbi made of the secret source during the russia investigation. yesterday morning at cia headquarters, trump praised nunes. >> a very courageous man, he's courageous. congressman devin nunes, thank you very much, devin, for being here. >> i mean, define courageous. what's courageous about lying about having information and going over the white house and pretending that you got new information when you're nothing more than the president's courier. eugene, in your latest piece, you say stop talking about the coming constitutional crisis. you say the constitutional crisis is here. explain. >> well, look, what is it but crossing uncrossable lines every single day. we crossed four last week or five. but this is serious. the president of the united states is using the power of the justice department and the fbi in a nakedly political way to go after those he perceives as political enemies to provide him cover for an investigation of himself. this is the kind of thing that vladimir putin does in russia. it's the kind of thing erdogan does in turkey and duterte in the philippines. this is not what an american president does yet it's happening now. and this idea that oh, dear there is a coming crisis, we're in the middle of it. this is outrageous. this is serious. >> i agree. >> we talked last hour about the fact that american presidents don't do this, nixon tried it and it ended badly for him but you say that just four years ago, erdogan, the autocrat that runs turkey tried doing the same thing. >> there's many parallels with erdogan. he tried to fire the people investigating him, he called it a witch-hunt, he said it was a victim of the deep state then he purged the justice department in turkey. he also uses the same strategy to go after media outlets that trump tried to do with the post office because soft authoritarians, as they're called, use financial leverage to shut down media outlets rather than blatantly shutting them down. so we have a situation where trump is trying to behave like a despot. whether he does or not it should be alarming to all of us. republicans are doing nothing to stop him. >> so peter baker, you write about a two pronged strategy. the president of the united states is putting out tweets to undermine and uds cut the investigation into russia and perhaps the link between the campaign. what's the other piece and can we call it a strategy? >> it's always a hazardous word to use when we're talking about president trump because he's a mix of impulses and instinct and possibly strategy and in this case they are obviously trying to tear down the investigators, trying to just credit the investigation into him by saying in itself is compromised. what you saw yesterday went beyond what the president has done in the past is not just sit there complaining about it, calling it a witch-hunt and even during the justice department. he forced the justice department to back off revealing their sources and that forced them to sit down with kelly the chief of staff and give up things they think should be confidential. that's a more direct intervention in an investigation that involves him than we've seen up until now. the second part is trying to lay out limits for the investigation through rudy giuliani's comments. he says if we have an interview, it will be two hours. robert mueller has decided he doesn't have the power to indict a sitting president and our mueller hopes to wrap this up by september 1. robert mueller hasn't said that to us. >> peter, let me ask you about that ch that. robert mueller never said that to rudy giuliani. this september 1 date is something giuliani made up. >> sort of like trump. >> his point is anything after september 1 would be fatally compromised as a political exercise because it would come in the middle of a mid-text election. >> i understand the point but i can make that point, you could make that point but if we said robert mueller had assured them that it wasn't going go past september 1 on the obstruction of justice charge, well, if mueller didn't tell us that we would be lying like giuliani appears to be lying right now. >> it's fair to say mayor giuliani is not a spokesman for robert mueller and we should keep that in mind when we talk to him about these kinds of things but what he seems to be doing is laying out some red lines or boundaries or signaling to the prosecutors look, this is as far as the president is willing to go and not any further. that may set a predicate for some action later in the year. >> let me ask everybody. everybody feel free to pitch in. how many of you think that robert mueller iii really gives a tinker's damn about what rudy giuliani says? how many here think -- >> he's calling and telling him stuff. >> -- think that robert mueller iii is going to be backed into a corner by a lie that rudy giuliani tells himself, donald trump, and then the rest of the world? any takers? mike? >> i would venture bobby three sticks is unbothered by anything rudy giuliani says. >> i don't think he's thinking about him. >> peter, let me ask you this. in all of the work you do in covering this on a daily basis in preparing these wonderfully written analyses in the "new york times" that you provide us with, has anybody in the trump orbit, any of your sources in the trump orbit, asked you to sit down with them because they wanted to tell you why these allegations against the president are untrue? has anybody done that? >> i think that's not the way they approached this. they have approached this by talking about how the investigation got started and how that's part of a democratic intrigue. they don't engage in the most part on the substance of the questions that have been raised. you hear the president say again and again no collusion no collusion, well that ignores evidence we know out there. we know there was an attempt at collusion arguably in the summer of 2016 when the president's own son, son-in-law, and campaign chairman sat down with russians who were promises incriminating information about the candidates opponent, the explicit understanding that it was coming from the russian government. so even though they say that meeting didn't result in what i want thissed, -- it doesn't me there wasn't an attempt there. when the president says no collusion, it doesn't mean there's anything illegal, we haven't heard from robert mueller about that but what the president is trying to do is create a reality in which everybody agrees with him that this is a fatally flawed investigation, that there is no collusion and that they are in his view targeting an innocent person. that's the reality he's trying to create with his strategy here. >> so brian your new book is called "how to rig an election" and it talks not just about the united states, this is a broad argument about what's happening around the world and you say democracy is on the decline. is this something you think we've seen in the united states or could see in the united states? >> i absolutely think so. i think we're seeing a president who is breaking democratic norms which are the soft guardrails of democracy and poisoning the well of public discourse, which is deeply damaging, and i think we have a crisis of civic culture. we had 36.4% turnout in the last midterms. tunisia had local elections that had 35% and people are saying they were undemocratic. these are national elections. we have problems with gerrymandering, corrosion of money in politics and we have a president who has no interest in securing the integrity of american elections from foreign meddling which we know is a threat and we know will only get worse as we go forward so i think we have a global crisis of democracy. by the way, that's facilitated by president trump's modeling of authoritarian behavior on the global stage because he's congratulating dictators for their sham elections at the same time he's attacking the press calling to lock up his opponents and hiring family members and cronies. how is the state department supposed to pressure these terrible regimes around the world when the president is doing things they say you shouldn't do? >> there's a second side to that coin that, yes, he congratulates the leader of china when he becomes even more oppressive. and locks down control even more, the same thing, of course when it happens in turkey, when it happens in the philippines, when it happens across the world, when autocrats become more autocratic, donald trump will be the first person to pick up the phone and congratulate him even when his national security team is begging him in all caps do not congratulate putin. but there's another side to that coin. he attacks theresa may our ally in great britain. he constantly attacks angela merkel. probably america's most steadfast ally in the post war era. he attacks leaders of democratically elected governments while uplifting -- lifting up these autocrats. >> and those signals matter for this book we did about 500 interviews in 11 countries in the developing world and we interviewed prime ministers and presidents and they said some version of the same thing which was we look to washington for what we can get away with. how we can rig elections, how we can imprison opponents, how we can jail journalists and when they get the signals coming from washington that trump doesn't stand with our democratic allies but does stand with authoritarian regimes who rig elections, that matters and it makes it more likely those regimes will double down on the strategies without real pushback. and the problem you hear from diplomats is they're still saying the right thing. the state department says don't jail journalists, don't rig elections but if trump picks up the phone and calls erdogan when he rigs an election and says congratulations or calls putin when he rigs an election, do you think they care about what the state department says? it undercuts u.s. diplomacy and makes our diplomats doing their jobs impotent to support democracy around the world and that's the story of the trump administration's america first democracy last foreign policy. >> the book is "how to rig an election." appreciate that. everybody stay with us. still ahead on "morning joe," check throughout tweet from marco rubio on trade. china is winning the negotiations and the u.s. is #losing. the "new york times" explains why trump's charm and threats may not be working on china. that's next. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. chevy suv'. the first one is called the trax, great for when you move in together. -ahhh! and this is the chevy equinox, perfect for when you two have your first kid. give me some time... okay. this is the traverse... for when you have your five kids, two dogs and one cat. whoa! five? uhhh... it's the chevy memorial day sales event! get an additional $750 on these select models. that's on top of most other offers! find new roads at your local chevy dealer. 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ask your doctor if myrbetriq is right for you, and visit myrbetriq.com to learn more. those we love is an act of mutuality. we can help with the financial ones. learn more or find an advisor at massmutual.com >> i don't think president trump is thinking about public relations. he's thinking about peace. he's thinking about how we achieve what has eluded successive american administrations. truthfully, the clinton administration, even the bush administration got played in the past. it would be a great mistake for kim jong-un to think he could play donald trump. >> vice president pence addressing recent reports that president trump is reconsidering going through with his summit with north korea's kim jong-un partly over concerns that if it fails it could be an embarrassment for the administration. >> but he said he's not doing this for pr purposes so why would he be concerned about a negative pr outcome? mike pence says -- and mike pence is an honorable man -- that donald trump isn't concerned about public relations involved in this summit. >> every time he speaks it's painful. >>> president trump is hosting south korean president moon jae-in at the white house today. yesterday on twitter, trump called on china to continue to "be strong and tight" on the border of north korea until a deal is made. adding, quote, the word is that recently the border has become much more porous and more has been filtering in. i want this to happen and north korea to be very successful but only after signing -- yikes. peter baker? i'm frightened by his tweets on north korea at this point. shouldn't we be? >> i don't know. >> he doesn't know what he's doing. >> seriously? it's evidence, ee's everyday, >> look at this, for some reason siri is the deep state. >> your phone just starts recording. >> it only happens when i i start saying things i never want it to hear. >> then it starts recording like nobody was touching it. that's weird. anyhow -- >> so anyway, okay. come on. >> drunk driver. >> it's donald trump. >> peter baker, we've had the tweets back and forth. where are we right now as it pertains to negotiations and is donald trump moving forward to wait to act non? >> there's so many hazards on the trail to singapore it may not come off but one of the questions raised by the tweet you just said is i want things to go across the border but not until after signing. what does that mean? does that mean he's willing, for instance, to ease up on the economic sanctions on the promise of denuclearization as opposed to delivering? at what point along the road would you deliver benefits to north korea in exchange for some progress toward giving up his nuclear program? this is where people have gotten caught up in the past. you heard vice president pence say well, people have gotten rolled in the past. one criticism of presidents in the past is they gave up benefits without north korea going all the way. so the president has suggested in the past that he wouldn't necessarily give them anything until they got rid of his nuclear weapons. would there be something before such a goal, a staged progress for progress kind of thing as other presidents have done? you can't tell. that president seems to suggest yes but he's not very precise in the way he communicates. >> every foreign policy expert we've talked to on the show in the last several months says there's no way kim jong-un is going to totally scrap his nuclear program. it's the one thing he's got. the one thing that commands respect around the world. did the white house, did the president actually believe or convince him to give up the program? and, of course, last week the north korean government came out and said out loud, just to be clear as you enter this negotiation, we're not giving up our nuclear program. >> well, people around the president don't believe that. certainly john bolton doesn't believe that. bolton has been a skeptic for many years. he doesn't think the north koreans are genuine, doesn't think they're sincere and he thinks they'll probably happen in the singapore summit is that the president will come to that realization and he can get off of this diplomatic track and return to the path of maximum pressure. that's the phrase the president uses so i don't think people like john bolton think there's much possibility of success here but they have a president who wants to give it a try. >> so if we're not getting rid of the nuclear weapons, what is the united states negotiating for? i thought that was the point of this exercise. >> it is the point. that's the goal, no question about it, but i think people like john bolton are skeptical that the north koreans are serious about it, that they would do what they've done in the past which is say things they don't mean. so, look, at this point we're in negotiations, that's certainly a better place to be than threatening fire and fury and being on the edge of some sort of a conflict but the question is what happens on june 13, the day after that summit. will they walk away from the summit feeling like they're making progress and it's worth continuing down this path or will they decide in fact the whole thing is a sham and return to a more confrontational position? >> and willie there is a -- a collision is coming because nobody -- very few people believe that kim is going to give up his nuclear weapons and even the most optimistic foreign policy analyst says the united states can't walk away from the table with a nuclear north korea. donald trump, because he does scare, unlike what mike pence says, just reverse just about everything mike pence now says about donald trump and you'll get the truth. donald trump does care about public relations and donald trump can't afford to walk away from the table as the commander in chief of the united states that allowed north korea to have a nuclear weapon which now, by the way, can reach just about anywhere in the continental united states. >> and now we're in a position where if they don't give up their nuclear weapons, where does that leave us? if he said you can't have a nuclear weapon, does that mean there's a military confrontation if diplomacy doesn't work? you haven't left yourself much else. meanwhile, there's a growing belief that the president and his administration are being outmaneuvered by china regarding the ongoing trade dispute. the "new york times" reports so far nearly any time china resists an american trade demand the u.s. backs down such as refusing to commit to a fixed dollar reduction in the massive trade deficit. >> sorry, willie, did you say every time china makes a demand donald trump backs down? because that's what marco rubio said yesterday and i'm curious that is -- the "new york times" is even saying every time china makes a demand donald trump backs down. because before they gave this trump project $500 million, he sure talked tough. >> that seems to be the reporting on the "new york times" is that he has made concessions to china. in addition, while china has streamlined its ability to make economic policy decisions, the u.s. has shifted its demands and struggled to send out a consistent message partly due to various high profile public disagreements within its own trade team in addition to the president's own conflicting messages and tweets. the "times" notes with the u.s. only exporting $130 billion in goods to china each year, it would be extremely difficult for the country to significantly reduce the imbalance by imports alone unless it cut its own exports to the united states. gene, there's a worthy read here in the "new york times" because it talks about the different factions in the white house. the president saying one thing one day, somebody else saying something else the next day, contradicting themselves and sending out not just public conflicting messages but also to china as to where the u.s. stands. >> right. the president promised since the beginning of his campaign to be the toughest you could be on china and trade and start a trade war and this will not stand and he had a bunch of economic advisers, including his head of his team of economic advisers larry kudlow, including his treasury secretary steve mnuchin who believe the exact opposite. who don't want a trade war with china. so that in part is the mixed message. and then there are the mixed messages from trump himself you saw that tweet about north korea which was really a tweet at china saying be -- exercise more control, please, over your border with north korea and let fewer goods and resources in. so the great negotiator donald trump has maneuvered himself in a position of weakness in both of these negotiations because he can't be so tough on china because he needs them with north korea and it's just absurd. so he's not going to get only rolled by the north koreans but he's getting rolled by the chinese as well, it's all in a day's work for the man who wrote "the art of the deal." >> it's hard to imagine -- north korea, china, trade deficit, supposed summit to take place in singapore, the level of distraction in the white house led by the president of the united states with the mueller investigation hovering over all of it, it's amazing you get anything at all done. >> and it shows a very weak hand internationally and a lack of strategic thinking on very, very high stakes gambits. i think you have a situation where trump isn't prepared for these. he's sending mixed signals, people don't view him as a reliable partner internationally and he's trying to stake his presidency on challenges that have destroyed the foreign policy legacy of previous presidents. that's why we're in a dangerous moment for american foreign policy. the house of cards teetering in the white house could collapse very quickly. >> this has been so great. gene robinson, the trump presidency has just been a god send for china. >> oh, yeah. >> you can talk to people in china, you can talk to business people and talk to people internationally. they will tell you the chinese absolutely love donald trump because he's so easy to play and he's got autocratic tendencies to them. so they can relate to him better than they can relate to an anti-communist like ronald reagan. >> do you remember the old days, joe, when american presidents used to tell chinese dictators that she should reform? that they should have democratic reforms and permit more freedom? do you remember those days? it seemed like eons ago now. you'll never hear that coming from donald trump. he gives dictators a free pass. a the dangerous thing about this moment in foreign affairs is that once the dust settles, once trump is even -- makes no deal with north korea around they still have their weapons, because i think they will still have their nuclear weapons and he's out of the iran deal now and once that comes to some sort of crisis what's left is john bolton. what's left is this totally belligerent approach to these two nuclear crises that is is extremely, extremely dangerous. >> as you point out, the crisis is already here. eugene robinson in your column, thank you very much. peter baker, thank you. >>> coming up, a runoff in texas and primaries in georgia, kentucky, and arkansas. it's election day so that means it's time for steve kornacki. >> the rage is coming. >> the rage sets the stage. >> do you think he's going to throw a chair like next time? 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>> it depends how much of an election junky you are, if that's a way to sell this. if you're like me, you'll care about a lot of this. >> what do you care about the most? >> i think there's two interesting stories i'm following tonight. number one is this choice that democrats have in georgia statewide for the governor's race this year. it's a strategic choice and you've heard this debate nationally and democrats in georgia will weigh in on it tonight. it's this idea of is the strategy in the trump era and going forward for democrats -- especially in a state like georgia -- is it we change the electorate, we try to bring new voters in, we try to exexcite voters who haven't been voting or is it, hey, these folks, these more conservative moderate white voters who voted for trump who typically vote republican, do we try to win them? >> i saw. put that picture up again if you will. i saw an ad. it was -- is s say ttacey evans one in the military and she had 16 homes. she's the more moderate candidates. >> she embodies the traditions democrats have made in the south. in georgia -- remember it was michelle nun a few years ago, it was jason carter, the moderate candidate reaching out to white voters who vote republican. the case made by stacey abrams her opponent is hey, we democrats keep trying that, it keeps failing, we keep coming eight to ten points short in georgia, let's try to go to our core voters, let's try to energize and get more of them out, let's expand the pie that way. >> by the way, i don't know anything about this campaign but i do know that that advertisement is still the strongest i've seen all year. give us an overview about what's happened so far in this election cycle. which way have the democrats gone. i know in the last election they went more the bernie route but overall what have they done? >> they're still figuring it out but there are a couple races where the dccc weighed in early and maybe they're going to get rebuffed in a way but maybe they've already made piece. i'll give you an example. in kentucky, there's one congressional district we may end up talking about around the lexington area, the sixth district. this has the highest concentration of college degrees in kentucky, the suburbanites. you can see there, amy mcgrath, a military veteran caught fire online. she's raised millions of dollars online in this thing and now there are some indications she may have the momentum. we don't know, we don't have polling. there's indications she may have the momentum, she may be able to win this thing and the democrats in washington who initially backed mcgrath, recruited him into the race, maybe they end up okay with that. and we have a similar situation in texas. the most -- the marquee race in texas for the house will be in the houston area, the seventh district where democrats weighed in against a candidate, there she is, laura moser. if she wins today there are some indications democrats may say okay, we'll go with that. so she's one -- >> sounds like david jolly. >> they weighed in against. i remember newt a week before my campaign announced to everybody "joe scarborough cannot win his district. he is too conservative." >> how'd that turn out? >> i got 62%. >> that's what i thought. we'll get to this ticket in just a minute but have we seen a reaction from democrats in 2016 that's been more the argument that we need to get back to the middle and sweep up those voters and flip from democrat to vote for donald trump or are we seeing as a theme that they're going harder to energize the base? >> i feel like we're seeing two simultaneously different things from democrats. number one is when you go into these individual districts they have shown a willingness to nominate a conor lam, so individual districts and states in trump country i think you're seeing that. there's a different question here, though, with the national message of the party and what that is. what is the emphasis, who are the faces, what are the issues? >> they don't a national message. they have no clue nationally. they just don't. by the way that's how it works out they don't have a clue and -- but one thing you are seeing, you're seeing a lot of former military people and they're doing it the way they're supposed to do it -- district by district by district and there's some impressive democrats out there. >> the way it usually goes, there is a theory about politics and i tend to subscribe to it that in a midterm year you don't need that national message. you focus on these individual districts, there's a tendency of the electorate to check the president so you can do well. it's in 2020 where it becomes a question of who has emerged nationally, what voice has emerged nationally. >> so will you come on tomorrow because -- or at least could you look tonight? i don't know how late your night is going to be but i'm curious to see how donald trump's uptick in the approval rating, the tightening of the congressional ballot, how that's driving energy among democrats and republicans because you've always been able to tell in the past. i remember the year obama won in 2008. democrats in every race were getting 200,000, 400,000 more voters in other races statewide leading up to that election. have you seen trends there? >>. >> pennsylvania is a good example. in 2016 in the presidential race more folks took republican ballots. the bernie race on the democratic side, the trump race. >> what's happening this year? >> more democrats voted in the primary this is year now there is a lot more republican incumbent members of congress in pennsylvania than democrats. but you did see a turnout flip and we've seen this in a lot of places where if you're looking for a turnout to give you a clue, it's weighing more on the side of the democrats. >> easily? >> it varies by state and a lot is these locked-in patterns in a state like west virginia. democrats have this registration advantage even though it's become such a trump republican state. >> kasie hunt, jump in. >> sure. i'm interested to talk to the two gentlemen who are proposing that they run in a bipartisan way for governor of florida, primarily because i would like to hear what both of you have to say about president trump and if you're on the same page there and how -- is there nip in the representative parties, how can you get a coalition together that would send you to the governorship when you assume -- i would think you have to take a stand on the president. >> so let's start with the republican. >> kasie is killing hamlet in the first act. >> that's easy. as a sitting member of the house i went to the well of the house and called on donald trump to drop out of the presidential race after his muslim ban. i have been a critic as the leader of the party and the country and i can say that as a republican who wants to remain a republican. >> i'myou're a conservative? >> yes. >> what was your acu rating? >> i have no idea. but i talked ant marriage equality and climate change and gun control and all these other issues, not to doopt tadopt the democrats' position but say you can be a republican and offer solutions and win. >> there's that. okay. >> well as a moderate fiscally responsible democrat i want this president to succeed like all of us. however watching what's happened it's obvious that's not working out for our country and on the heels of this last conversation, what do democrats want? where are they going? where is the country going? when you look at what happened recently, president obama ran on a message of change and he won. then president trump ran on the message of the outsider going to shake things up. people didn't like him because he was a bully, they liked him because they thought he was going to get results and that's what we are proposing here. as a democrat and republican working together, we can open up this conversation to more people and get results done and get legislation that's going to last. not get something done and two years later it's repealed by the next administration and we believe there is more middle ground. >> when will you decide whether to run or not? >> we have two or three weeks before qualifying. we've seen a drop in trust in government edelman says outside of -- we conflate being a moderate with being bapt and they're two different things. being moderate is an ideology, being partisan suggests everybody has a home. what we're talking about doing is creating a place where everybody has a voice, a ticket where everybody has a voice. if you're a progressive, conservative, down the middle, create a ticket where everybody has a home. 90% of the issues as a country we agree on. everybody needs access to health care, gun control, better teacher pay, protect the environment, those aren't partisans. >> so you both consider yours economically conservative, socially moderate? >> yes. >> for the most part, i have very traditional conservative leanings but what i know is that the dogma crushes all of us so let's create a place where everybody has a voice. >> we've spent the last year touring the country talking about why congress is broken. it's not that they're bad people or dumb or lazy necessarily. there are structural problems ripping us apart, the gerrymandering and the money and the lack of relationships and the cameras always on people that have become actors. >> and you are running as independents? >> no, we're running for -- theoretically. >> patrick could be a democratic nominee, i'd be a republican running mate. some have said they would sue us to try to kill bipartisanship. we've had parties and candidates suggest you can't do this. the florida code and the constitution is silent on it. we have a legal opinion that says you can do it. i would anticipate whether we do it or not the republican legislature in the spring will try to change the law. >> good luck with that at the united states supreme court. >> you talked about -- >> freedom of association. >> clearly not aligned with the m maga side of this, would you be comfortable saying either one of you is part of the resistance? >> resistance in its own unique way that we care about results in our country. we care about solving problems, expanding medicaid and helping teachers get better paid and making sure students are safe in school. getting things done that some people would argue president trump said he was going to do but has changed course on that. >> former congressmen patrick murphy and david jolly. thank you very much. let us know. steve, stay with us. still ahead, donald trump spent the entire 2016 campaign attacking hillary clinton for her unsecured e-mails. >> that was bad, wasn't it? because you could actually expose -- >> i thought it was a problem. >> you could expose informants, that would be horrible. >> the question is, is he making a similar mistake? there's no reporting about how risky trump's cell phone use is, and i don't just mean the tweeting which is obviously a huge risk. we'll be right back. once there was an organism so small no one thought much of it at all. people said it just made a mess until exxonmobil scientists put it to the test. they thought someday it could become fuel and power our cars wouldn't that be cool? and that's why exxonmobil scientists think it's not small at all. energy lives here. i was wondering if an electric toothbrush really cleans better than a manual. and my hygienist says it does but they're not all the same. who knew? i had no idea. so she said, look for one that's shaped like a dental tool with a round brush head. go pro with oral-b. oral-b's rounded brush head surrounds each tooth to gently remove more plaque, and oral-b is the first electric toothbrush brand accepted by the american dental association for its effectiveness and safety. my mouth feels so clean. i'll only use an oral-b. oral-b. brush like a pro. i'm about to start the hair, skin and nails challenge. so my future self will thank me. thank you. i become a model? 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can we get a shot of the president holding that phone that was just up on the screen? can we get that back up there again? look at that phone. that phone is bigger than the 1954 desoto. that's not an iphone. >> it might be the case on it. >> it's huge. but i mean, look -- >> you know why it looks so big, mike. >> oh -- >> you know why it looks so big. >> mammoth. it looks ma mommoth. >> small hands? >> you said it, not me. >> obviously hillary clinton supporters with good reason are aghast that hillary clinton had articles written about her for a year and a half, and here's donald trump doing the same thing with another technology for quote, convenience. >> yeah, like you said, the headline writes itself, the story writes itself and i feel this is a road we've been down a number of times since january of 2017 where you can call back to something in the campaign and you can look at what's in the news now and you can say, there's maybe a disconnect there. >> casey, there's so many disconnects, you could talk about flynn and trump and everybody else saying anything that you know, cooperates with the fbi is guilty or pleads the 5th is guilty. sarah suck u huckabay standers talking about two investigators talk about how corrupt hillary clinton was. these headlines all write themselves. >> yeah, i was just sitting here reading this letter from paul ryan, speaker of the house o dear director of clapper i'm writing to formally request that you refrain from providing any classified information to hillary clinton for the duration of her candidacy for president. which is when he demanded that she not be allowed to receive classified information because she had used unsecured devices to send and receive e-mail. so just curious if the same standard applies. >> that is fascinating. >> before we go, really quickly, i had talked about donald trump's numbers, they were high 30s. now they're low 40s. and right track, wrong track, pretty high. >> if you're a republican worried about keeping the house and the senate for that matter. there have been a couple of positive indicators in the last month i would say. right track, wrong track, donald trump's approval rating is now about 42, 43%. for him that is a -- that is a higher place than it's been. and also the generic ballot. when you ask people that question, are you going to vote for democrat or republican for congress in your district this fall. at the end of last year when i think the people thought the bottom was falling out for republicans after that l a al sena -- alabama senate election. now it's creeping down lower and there's a question always. you can go back to 2010. the big republican wave year. there were periods where democrats started to say hey, maybe it's not that bad. make we got this thing under control. these things still have time to play out but the you're a republican you've had some hopeful signs. >> what's driving this? >> it could be a couple of things. the north korea news, number two, the turn in focus on the stormy daniels sex front. we saw 20 years ago with clinton, when that came up his numbers went up. >> it's also the economy, joe. you go on any major highway you see the building going on on either side of the road. >> the obama era is continuing. >> what's going on today isn't a natural predictable followup to what happened the last 7 years in barack obama's tenure. it's just data, man. and willie and i are data driven. aren't we? >> we are. >> i did it with my baseball team last night. metrics for nine-year-olds it works very well. >> thank you so much. still ahead, did the justice department blink in its standoff with the white house and republican members of congress hoping to get classified information in the mueller probe? we're going to break down today's high stakes confrontation between the white house and the doj and we're going to be bringing in a member of the senate judiciary committee. republican john kennedy. he never says anything interesting. no, this guy is great. can't wait to hear what he has to say about what's going on. 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lincoln. we think about lincoln calling to the better angels of our nature.onald trump every day from the moment he wakes up to the moment he retires summons our worst demons. d the people in that white house are in on it with him. they are coarsening the country. the level of lying, the level of deceit, the level of attacks on our institutions, the sundering of the country for political purposes, all of it, it is deliberate, it is purposeful, it is premeditated. they know exactly what they're doing. there's a political strategy to it. it is not providential. it is not accidental. you're look at that and you recognize not only is it bad, it's borderline evil and it is hurting this country. last word about valerie jarrett, who served from the moment of president barack obama's inauguration to the moment of donald trump's inauguration. she served with dignity, with honor, with the qualities of probity and rectitude. valerie jarrett when we look at her conduct as a senior official of the government of the united states compared to these people, give me a break.

lincoln. more on the book that i'm writing about, i'm going to write about abraham lincoln and john brown. it's going to be a twosome instead of a threesome. in the back, sir. >>> the stated intent of the current administration that yale to use the name of john c. calhoun from one of their institutions. i don't know if it's a building or a school or something. >> okay. i'll broaden that. the question is, what about the campaign at yale university to eliminate john calhoun's name from a building or a college. i don't know how far along that road they are. anyway, calhoun attended yale. so he was at one time, he was considered a distinguished alumnus of yale college. and these days, of course, john calhoun is seen as the arch pols for slavery. i will tell you my general view of erasing names from buildings, taking down statues is to be very skeptical of this. i'll tell you why i'm skeptical. i teach at the university of texas. at the university of texas, there were erected in the 1920s a series of statues honoring heroes of the confederacy. following the shootings at charlottesville, was it

horses the lincoln mkx, more horsepower than the lexus rx350 and a quiet interior from which to admire them. the lincoln spring sales event is here. for a limited time get 0% apr on the lincolnn now use a blood sample toh care, target lung cancer more precisely. if we can do that, imagine what we can do for asthma. and if we can stop seizures in epilepsy patients with a small pacemaker for the brain, imagine what we can do for multiple sclerosis, even migraines. if we can use patients' genes to predict heart disease in their families, imagine what we can do for the conditions that affect us all. imagine what we can do for you. >>> the vice-president for student life at yale university saying she is deeply troubled by an incident on campus. early tuesday morning a black graduate student fell asleep in a common room of a dorm while studying. a white student found lola and told her she wasn't supposed to be sleeping there and called the police. she was questioned and posted heron count her encounter on facebook live. here's part of it. >> i need to go back and finish writing my paper. >> do you have your i.d. on you? >> yeah, i do. >> can we see it? >> why? >> we got a police c

and so -- and so as you say lincoln and tonny didn't get along too well they really didn't know each other. very well, but loing lincoln came after tonny in the famous lincoln douglas debate on the scott decision and fdr and hughes were not personally enemies at all they knew each other when they were both politicians in new york. and they had respect for each other. but, of course, fdr didn't like the any new deal of court decisions. and he came after the court not they they necessarily after -- after hughes. and then you have and you have eisenhower and warren. i guess i think that the way the framers have set up our constitution with a separation of power there's sort of built-in tension there. and it's probably healthy for the most part. and when they, when a strong president and all of presidents i've written about have been very strong presidents feel that -- that the court which is, of course, independent branch of the government is under mine or in some way obstructing when they see as public interest the presidents come of a them or in one way or another and certainly privately they do thankfully because they write they letters and i get to read an

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horses the lincoln mkx, more horsepower than the lexus rx350 and a quiet interior from which to admire them. the lincoln spring sales event is here. for a limited time get 0% apr on the lincoln bonus cash. >>> we already know about the payment to adult film actress stormy daniels from the president's lawyer michael cohen right before the election to, admittedly, by his own account keep her quiet about the sexual encounter she says she had with the president, but were there other payments to other women? the president's lawyer, rudy giuliani, left open that possibility. >> and you said he -- this is a regular arrangement he had with michael cohen, did michael cohen make payments to other women for the president? >> i have no knowledge of that, but i would think if it was necessary, yes. he made payment for the president or he conducted business for the president which means he had legal fees. money's laid out, and expenditures. >> so back now with the panel, ryan lizza, there is another possible answer to that question he could have given which would have been no. he chose not to give the answer, no, there. >> even if he says i have no knowledge, going a little further but sa

lincoln." i got that a lot for the lincoln film. it is not the facts necessarily, it is the level of engagement and getting the generalities right. and, we can quibble with it. all sorts of things a historian rolls their eyes about. but on the other hand, there were things he got right and raised important questions. susan: we look back compared to 10 years ago and we close with asking -- if we are here in five years, what is the profession on the precipice of that will really change? james: that is a hard question. i have spent much of the last 43 years trying to learn how to figure out the past. that is hard enough without trying to figure out the future. susan: it hits the agenda for -- it fits the agenda for your organization. james: it does. one of the things we have to think about is changing job markets with people with bachelor's, phd's in history. we have to ask ourselves what does the employment landscape look like for people with our degree? what kind of history do people need who are not history majors? what do engineers

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