amy: thank you for being with us, linda sarsour, cofounder of until freedom.fhal denzel smith, author "invisible man, got the whwhole world watching: a young black man's education." we will be back in 30 seconds. ♪ [ [music eak] amy: this is democracy now!, i'm amy goodman. this weekend activists i in washington, d.c., updated aa massive mural unveiled last week by mayor muriel bowser on a two-block stretch of road that leads to the white house. what she had printed in enormous block letters that can be seen from space, "black lives matter" and they put right next to it "defund the police come to referring to the whole movement now. we're goingng to turn right nowo alalex vitale, , who has long ad the answer to police v violences not reform. it's defunding. he is a sociology professor at brooklyn college, coordinator of the policing and social justice program author of the book, "the , end of policing." can you talk about the defund the police movement in terms of the end of popolicing?? what exactly you mean, professor? clcle sure. part o what w'reealilingith

and it is in fact illegal. ,ut it still t took us five yeas plus protesters like myselelf, c , linda sarsourandnd so many others, toto go througha presidential d debate and have o actually call him out d during e debate in order toto make s sure that he could not go around this country touting his relatioionsp between police and community in new york that doesn't really exist. i am not confident in this mamayor, unfortunatetely, that's going to do that work. i have seen him as of late trying to begin to have conversasations around the sosol distancing piece, with community groups to figure out other ways to deal with social distancing in communities, but i still just do not feel that he has what it takes to r really stand up to shay.ssioner amy: i've two questions. one is the tear-gassing of protest. these two legs of racism and police brutality and the pandemic, and the fact that protesters all over this country are getting gassed come and teargas, pepper sprayed, coronavirus is a respiratory disease. and it is particularly affected communities of color, for the leaders now of these protest