and lisa graves is back with us. barbara, if you were teaching your law school class tomorrow one lesson about this hearing today, what would that be? >> well, it's that you can't get to the truth unless you have done the investigation that it takes to get there. i felt a lot of sympathy for rachel mitchell today as she was asking questions because she had to ask them in a vacuum. she did have the benefit of an fbi investigation in advance to talk not only to the witnesses who were going to be testifying but to all of those other people around the periphery of it, mark judge, the four witnesses who signed affidavits, the other two accusers. to have their statements and know what they were saying, you could use that information then to push some of the statements made by both of the witnesses who did testify today to try to either corroborate what they were saying or to refute it. instead she really had to ask the questions in a vacuum and i think as a result was not terribly effective. >> let's listen to rachel mitch

and former senate judiciary staffer lisa graves is back with us. bassador sherman, to see lisa murkowski ask a simple question, should there be a full fbi investigation into these allegations more than one, and she couldn't -- she just couldn't find in her slick senatorial speech anyway other than saying, of course there should be. >> indeed. and then i just read a tweet right before i came in here where she has said she was just being flip. she didn't really mean it, which i think proves the point you made earlier on this broadcast, which is immense pressure is being put on these senators because mitch mcconnell does not have the votes. lisa murkowski, susan collins and john mccain were the three deciding votes on the affordable care act to keep the repeal from happening. i wonder who is going to be john mccain this time. >> your sense of the fairness of this process so far? >> totally unfair. it's completely ludicrous that you would have a hearing of this seriousness that matters this much to the future of our country and, a, have someone come 200

. >> rachel, i'm going to begin tonight junking any scripts i have to go straight to lisa graves and other experts to talk about what you just dealt with michael avenatti because lisa used to be part of a team on the senate judiciary staff on the democratic side working these kinds of things. we'll get her reaction to what michael avenatti had to say tonight. but let's just remember something i think the republicans are pretending is not true. i mean orrin hatch has been say, gee, the democrats are good at bringing this into the confirmation process. no, they're not. it is extremely rare. and let's give neil gorsuch some credit. he went to exactly the same high school which kavanaugh went to, which is reportedly drowning in beer and wild parties according to kavanaugh's best friend, mark judge's book. neil gorsuch went to that high school. no one came out -- no one came out and said anything like this about neil gorsuch. so, no, this doesn't happen every time. >> and also the idea there's these generic allegations that democrats keep on tap to fling at anybody who comes along who they

lisa graves, john flannery and frank fliguzi.vestigation, what would be the areas and the process that you would undergo? so let's start with the first one with you, frank. you say first of all, attempt to corroborate dr. blasey ford and deborah ramirez's allegations. expand on that. >> this isn't rocket science. this is a surge of resources that the fbi is outstanding at doing, but the clock is ticking right now, and the white house knows that. but if the fbi were permitted to do what they do best, there would be hundreds of agents being deployed and in terms of corroborating all of the accusers, not just ramirez and not just ford but also ms. swetnick. and there's someone out there, a mother who wrote a letter confidentially saying that her adult daughter was assaulted at a bar while kavanaugh was an adult. all of that needs to be in the universe of accusations being fleshed out. how do you do that? a lot of interviews. a lot of reconstruction. a lot of asking people questions about photos during that time period that put kavan

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joining us now is lisa graves. ms. graves, thank you very much for being with us tonight.ce to have you here. >> thank you so much. >> so this story, which you have detailed to a degree that i think makes it very understandable on slate.com as of last week, it has really started to catch on as maybe the key hang-up, the key problem that emerged during the kavanaugh confirmation hearings. so you feel like the public discussion about this now, the political discussion of this now accurately characterizes what kavanaugh did wrong? >> well, i think more and more people are learning about it. as you know, the hearings have been rushed forward. and so many documents have not been seen. in fact, 100,000 pages or more have not been seen. but from the documents that have been provided, including documents that came out just last week, it's clear that manuel miranda provided documents, talking points, materials that were taken from, stolen from democratic staff, and he gave them to him during this incredibly intense fight over bush's judicial nominees. and so one of the memos i know

amy: lisa graves, we have to leave it there.slate "i wrote some of the still a memos that brett kavanaugh lie to the senate about." democracy now! is looking for feedback from people who

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and lisa graves, every has a right to be presented in that senate room at any time. and if chuck grassley tries to move towards a vote on monday, i would expect every senator to be in that room raising their voices to stop that. >> i think there will be a lot of voices raised on monday if this goes forward with a vote. i think you have senators and members of the house extremely upset about this and they're hearing from people across the country. brett kavanaugh is the most no supreme court in the history of polling. and i don't think he's going to be able to bang that gavel and force it through with the number of voices speaking out. i would also point out, lawrence, that google and facebook in their negotiations for their hearing got a lot more due process for dr. ford. what does that say about chairman grassly. >> they got their demands met on both scheduling -- and by the way scheduling is the easiest thing. witnesses get the schedule they can comply with. and when i think about the women 27 years ago making that march, house members all have senate floor privile

lisa graves and adam gentleson are back with us. are you looking for in tomorrow's hearing? >> well, i hope that dr. ford will have a chance tell story fully, both in her opening statements and in her answers to the questions. i think the deck is stacked against her in terms of the way the questions have been so limited for brett kavanaugh, for them both in some ways with these five-minute rounds. but i think that one of the things that's going to be clear at the end of this is that dr. ford has no doubt that brett kavanaugh is the man who assaulted her, the young man who put his hand over her mouth and had her fear for her life. this idea that it's someone else, that she's mistaken, it had to be some other guy that was the sort of scheme orchestrated by brett kavanaugh's buddy ed whalen i think will be completely repudiated by dr. ford, and then you'll be faced with a repeated series of denials by brett kavanaugh, who has been practicing how to deny what happened with umbrage or with calmness depending on the circumstances. i think

joining us now msnbc contributor and president of voter latino, and our senate staffers lisa grave, the former chief counsel for nominations on the senate judiciary committee, and adam johnson, former deputy chief of staff to senator harry reed. and lisa, i want to get reaction to what you saw take place in your former committee today. >> well, i had two observations. one was to see the brave words of the women at the elevator and to see the compelling dialogue of senator coons affect senator flake was just so moving. and for a long time i've embraced a philosophy that changing -- having a revolution in someone's heart can change their destiny, can change our country. and i think we witnessed the power of dialogue and the power of changing someone's heart today. and the second thing is i have been holding out hope that senator flake would do the right thing. i worked with him some when i was lobbying the side on the aclu, and he took brave action then. he was punish bide his party for doing so, and i believe in my heart that he still had the ability in his heart the ability to take cour

get started at botoxcosmetic.com. >>> lisa graves was on the democratic staff of the senate judiciaryhite house on senate confirmations for federal judges. lisa graves believes not just that brett kavanaugh should not be confirmed for supreme court but that he should be impeached from his current job as a federal judge. >> i am convinced by that and some of the other provided that brett kavanaugh repeatedly unde oath to the united states senate about these matters. and it's a very serious matter for the integrity of the courts and also for the integrity of the united states senate itself. >> john heilman and mac tomowski are back with us and that was in lisa's hour in which she elaborated on an article she wrote. we haven't seen anything like this, a nominee challenged this way, and so credibly on so many points. >> there are many facets of this that are different than i've seen. this is one example. it could be around documents to which this is connected. the extraordinary range of cases, even though he is citing justice kagan and others and ginsberg, there are a number of cases he's

after this break, we will be joined by jill wine-banks and lisa graves, who is the former chief counsel on the democratic staff of the senate judiciary committee. -computer, order pizza. -of course, daniel. -fridge, weather. -clear skies and 75. -trash can, turn on the tv. -my pleasure. -ice dispenser, find me a dog sitter. -okay. -and make ice. -pizza delivered. -what's happened to my son? -i think that's just what people are like now. i mean, with progressive, you can quote your insurance on just about any device. even on social media. he'll be fine. -[ laughs ] -will he? -i don't know. -will he? then you might have a dcondition called dry mouth.? biotène is clinically proven to soothe and moisturize a dry mouth. plus, it freshens breath. biotène. immediate and long lasting dry mouth symptom relief. come hok., babe. nasty nighttime heartburn? try new alka-seltzer pm gummies. the only fast, powerful heartburn relief plus melatonin so you can fall asleep quickly. ♪ oh, what a relief it is! who would have guessed? an energy company helping cars emit less. making cars lighter, it's a good

and today we realized that that's just not true. >> lisa graves, what was your reaction when you saws? >> i was shocked and quite frankly what you've seen in the press is lot of good press for senator grassly asserting he's supposedly providing all these options. that's the language they've been trying to get there. so what you see there n gap of the stage handling and it reality. the extreme partisanship and getting brett kavanaugh now matter the allegation, the severity of the that and the significance of that for our supreme court. >> let's listen to something orrin hatch said during the confirmation about anita hill's testimony. >> orrin hatch thinks that's true, what he knows of the judge he thinks it's impossible for the harassment to have occurred. >> that's why we have laws. because just leaving it up to men or people who are in a position of power to decide what counts or what's real or not is not adequate. we need to have laws to protect women, protect people in the workplace. and also i think that goes to a point on which we've seen of the committee. it needs to have rules

and today we realized that that's just not true. >> lisa graves, what was your reaction when you saw >> i was shocked and quite frankly what you've seen in the press is lot of good press for senator grassly asserting he's supposedly providing all these options. that's the language thoib beey'n trying to get there. so what you see there n gap of the stagehandling and t handlin reality. the extreme partisanship and getting brett kavanaugh now matter the allegation, the severity of the that and the significance of that for our supreme court. >> let's listen to something orrin hatch said during the confirmation about anita hill's testimony. i guess we don't have it here. i'm just going to read it to you. and this orrin hatch's understanding of this subject. this gives you a sense of what he actually knows about it. i guess the control room has a ready now. let's listen to this. >> i do not minimize sexual harassment on the job if it occurs, and in nase it did not occur. and i feel confident saying that having known the judge for so long, having watched his reputation, having worked with

elizabeth williamson and lisa graves, thank you all for joining us this hour. for this week. join me back here next sunday at 5:00 p.m. to break down the major stories of the week. you can reach out to me on social media and join kasie hunt and then headliners takes a look at paul manafort. first up, it's "meet the press." oscar mayer deli fresh ham has no added nitrates, nitrites or artificial preservatives. now deli fresh flavor is for everyone. like those who like... sweet. those who prefer heat. and those who just love meat. oscar mayer deli fresh. a fresh way to deli. you wouldn't accept from any one else.resh. why accept it from an allergy pill? flonase relieves sneezing, itchy, watery eyes and a runny nose, plus nasal congestion, which most pills don't. it's more complete allergy relief. flonase. i saw my leg did not look right. i landed. i was just finishing a ride. i felt this awful pain in my chest. i had a pe blood clot in my lung. i was scared. i had a dvt blood clot. having one really puts you in danger of having another. my doctor and i chose xare

bop schiff and lisa graves, thank you for starting us off on this important coverage tonight. we have much more on this coming up. president trump sounded terrified today about this because he was sticking very, very closely to his talking points about wanting to hear both sides in the brett kavanagh confirmation hearing instead of his usual method of attacking any woman who makes accusations of sexual assault. and donald trump is terrified because brett kavanagh might not make it to the supreme court and, therefore, might not be there to protect donald trump from a robert mueller subpoena. >>> and next, the other witness, the other teenage boy who dr. ford says was in the room with brett kavanagh is saying tonight that he will refuse to testify to the senate judiciary committee. -computer, order pizza. -of course, daniel. -fridge, weather. -clear skies and 75. -trash can, turn on the tv. -my pleasure. -ice dispenser, find me a dog sitter. -okay. -and make ice. -pizza delivered. -what's happened to my son? -i think that's just what people are like now. i mean, with progressive

bop schiff and lisa graves, thank you for starting us off on this important coverage tonight. we have much more on this coming up. president trump sounded terrified today about this because he was sticking very, very closely to his talking points about wanting to hear both sides in the brett kavanagh confirmation hearing instead of his usual method of attacking any woman who makes accusations of sexual assault. and donald trump is terrified because brett kavanagh might not make it to the supreme court and, therefore, might not be there to protect donald trump from a robert mueller subpoena. >>> and next, the other witness, the other teenage boy who dr. ford says was in the room with brett kavanagh is saying tonight that he will refuse to testify to the senate judiciary committee. looking good! at booking.com, we can't guarantee you'll good at that water jet thingy... but we can guarantee the best price on this hotel. or any accommodation, from homes to yurts. booking.com booking.yeah >>> we are getting more breaking news reports tonight from senators' reactions to dr. christin

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and lisa graves is with us also a former chief counsel for nominations for the democrats on the senate judiciary committee and was a deputy assistant attorney general in the department of justice. and ron, let's start with you. i know you've been thinking about those days 27 years ago, and those of us who were watching from the outside couldn't quite believe what we were seeing. what one of the reasons for it it seems to me is the committee like all the rest of the committees in the senate have never quite figured out how do you decide in that room whether an accuser has reached an adequate standard of proof. >> that's right, lawrence. and look, back then robert seabird, the great dean of the senate, great institutionalist, it has to be protected as an institution. if there's a doubt, the doubt should be resolved in favor of making sure we have the right people on the supreme court. that his view. >> so, ron, just to translate that for a second. the doubt should be resolved in favor of the accuser? >> look, i think you have to hear all the evidence. you have to hear what she says, you

i look forward to her testimony and for the truth being heard. >> lisa graves and fatima goss graves, thank you both for talking about this topic today. >> thanks. >>> a new bomb shell report puts deputy attorney general rod rosenstein in the cross hairs of president trump and maybe the final straw leading to his exit from the justice department. how do you top mac & cheese? start with 100% clean ingredients. like vermont white cheddar. then... add bacon, bbq chicken, or baja blend. catering and delivery now available. panera. food as it should be. that's confident. but it's not kayak confident. kayak searches hundreds of travel and airline sites to find the best flights for us. so i'm more than confident. kayak. search one and done. monitor their blood glucose every day. which means they have to stop. and stick their fingers. repeatedly. today, life-changing technology from abbott makes it possible to track glucose levels. without drawing a drop of blood, again and again. the most personal technology, is technology with the power to change your life. life. to the fullest. >>> concern

and he lies about whether or not he got the documents from senator leahy and senator kennedy and lisa graves. andy he lies about whether or t he knew that judge kosinski was sexually harassing people. he's lied about what he's done to these other women. what we have is a candidate for the united states supreme court who wants to be confirmed for the most important lifetime appointment we have in this,mo e greatest country in the world, and he's a liar. that's what we have. >> if you're right and he is lying how do you square that other brett kavanaugh with the person we saw on that fox news interview sitting next to his wife tonight?ha >> that person was coached and quh when he got verklempt over some question it's coaching it -- it would be one thing if he said when i was young and stupid ith was young d stupid and i apologize, and i had hurt people's feelings. but that'sgi not it. he says i was always a boy scout, i wass always a champio of women. that's not true. and maybe he has grown up in the manner in which he treats women. there's nothing like children and girls to teach you ththat.

after a break we'll be joined by maria cumar and our senate staff experts lisa graves and adam johnson. - [narrator] the typical vacuum head has its limitations, so shark invented duo clean. while deep cleaning carpets, the added soft brush roll picks up large particles, gives floors a polished look, and fearlessly devours piles. duo clean technology, corded and cord-free. >>> let's listen to what senator lindsey graham speaking this morning, when everyone thought that the confirmation of brett kavanaugh was a done deal in the senate judiciary committee today, what he said when everybody thought it was going to be voted on in the committee today and final passage on the senate floor would happen on monday or tuesday. >> every woman who actually knows brett kavanaugh has come forward to say he is not that kind of guy. he has been at the highest level of public service under tremendous scrutiny, six fbi investigations, and we missed the sophomore junior gang rapist. we didn't miss it. it's a bunch of garbage. >> there's lindsey graham talking about every woman who actually knows brett ka

lisa graves, thank you. really appreciate it. >> thank you so much, lawrence. >>> we're going to have more breaking news reaction to this story about brett kavanaugh, this new breaking news there is a potential accusation of sexual assault, when he was a young man, when he was in his high school years. we're going to come back with more on that. ears we're going to come back with more on that i'm all about my bed. this mattress is dangerously comfortable. when i get in, i literally say ahh. introducing the leesa mattress. a better place to sleep. this bed hugs my body. i'm now a morning person. the leesa mattress is designed to provide strong support, relieve pressure and optimize airflow to keep you cool. hello bed of my dreams. order online, we'll build it, box it and ship it to your door for you to enjoy. sleep on it for up to 100 nights and love it or you'll get a full refund. returns are free and easy. i love my leesa. today is gonna be great. find out why so many people love the leesa mattress, then tr

. >> lisa graves, jill winebanks, thank you for joining us. i appreciate it. >> thank you so much. when we come back, another bad news week for president trump ending as other weeks have with a guilty plea, but this week also ending with a challenge to his supreme court nominee. the kind of challenge we have not seen since clarence thomas' confirmation. you know, i used to be good at this. then you turn 40 and everything goes. tell me about it. you know, it's made me think, i'm closer to my retirement days than i am my college days. hm. i'm thinking... will i have enough? should i change something? well, you're asking the right questions. i just want to know, am i gonna be okay? i know people who specialize in "am i going to be okay." i like that. you may need glasses though. yeah. schedule a complimentary goal planning session today with td ameritrade. >>> things were looking bad enough for the republicans with just 53 days left until the mid-term congressional elections. now president trump's campaign chairman has pleaded guilty and become a cooperating witness and the supreme co

lisa graves writing, even if kavanaugh could claim that he didn't have any hint at the time he receivedthese documents were of suspect prof nance, there it's no reasonable way to assert reasonably that he had no idea what they were after. what they were after the revelation of the theft. any reasonable person would have realized they had been stolen. certainly someone as smart as kavanaugh would have too but he lied under oath. she says not only should kavanaugh not be confirmed accident he should clearly be impeached. he should not be elevated to the highest court. he should be taken down to the federal bench he serves on now. so yes, the hearings adjourned late this afternoon. senators have until monday to restist and then assert wren questions. how this fight unrolls from here, we do not know. by republicans in the senate who enjoy a historically small margin in terms of their majority. but among the other things senate democrats believe they exposed to damage the kavanaugh nomination this week, senate democrats think they got him on at least a couple points that look like perjury. n

and lisa graves, a former chief counsel for nominations for the ranking member of the senate judiciary committee on the democratic side. she was deputy assistant attorney general in the department of justice. and christine, thank you very much for joining us tonight. lisa has been with us before, and it is just the time when we need the expertise of former staffers on the senate judiciary committee to guide us through where we are now. and i want to get your reaction to the republicans on this committee all now including jeff flake who seem to be sounding reasonable earlier in the week holding onto this position there's absolutely no time for an fbi investigation. >> lawrence, i think you're right. i think it's absurd. and as you said at the contrast, as bad as anita hill was treated by the senate judiciary committee in 1991 dr. blasey ford is being treated even worse by senator grassly. she asked that the fbi do its investigation first. and the tapes that you just ran show that senator grassly and senator hatch both talked about that being a long-standing precedent, that being the obv

two senate democrats have decided to launch investigations into the allegations joining us now is lisa graveser chief counsel for nominations on the senate judiciary committee and a former deputy assistant attorney general at the department of justice. lisa, thank you so much for being willing to come in on such short notice as we continue our breaking news coverage here. and my team tells me that you actually were involved in vetting brett kavanaugh for a previous post. if you could walk us through what you do know about him, what you learned about him in that process. and we've been having a little bit of a conversation here about how these things normally come to light that it often happens in the more private version of the process before it becomes public i'm wondering if you could speak to that as well. >> brett kavanaugh was first nominated to the d.c. circuit in 2003 he was only 38 years old and he was offered this lifetime position on the highest court in our country. he had come to the senate judiciary committee as a nominee with very little litigation experience he had been a clerk

knowleledgeable about his testimony on other issues have claimed that he perjured himself, like lisa graveswho was chief counsel during thehe time he was at the white house. that was during the bush administration. he somehow pulled up calendars from high school this weekend and could not find enough that oncopied -- h he was copied doing his relationship with judge kosinski, who was widely known for harassing women and sending pornographic material around to his clerks. so there are very selective memories goioing on here. talk about selective memory? kavanaugh seems to have a very selective memory. amy: there so much that continues to be revealed. i want to thank you for coming, especially our condolenceses on the death of your brbrother. thank you for coming here in this difficult time. jodi jacobson is president and editor in chief of rewire. we will link to her latest piece "gop wants 'aunt lydia' and attack-dog staffer to question dr. blasey ford." this is democracy now! when we come back, we will be joined by a professor, professor barbara ransby, who will talalk about her role in ga

lisa graves writing, even if kavanaugh could claim that he didn't have any hint at the time he receivedhe e-mails that these documents were of suspect promise -- prominance, there it's no reasonable way to assert reasonably that he had no idea that they were after. what they were after the revelation of the theft. any reasonable person would have realized they had been stolen. certainly someone as smart as kavanaugh would have too but he lied under oath. she says not only should kavanaugh not be confirmed accident he should clearly be impeached. he should not be elevated to the highest court. he should be taken down to the federal bench he serves on now. so yes, the hearings adjourned late this afternoon. senators have until monday to rest up and then they'll submit written questions. how this fight unrolls from here, we do not know. by republicans in the senate who enjoy a historically small margin in terms of their majority. but among the other things senate democrats believe they exposed to damage the kavanaugh nomination this week, senate democrats think they got him on at least a c

with me, also joining me is daniel strauss, national political reporter for politico, and also lisa gravess for the ranking democrat on the senate judiciary committee. let's get started with you, lisa. as we know, kavanaugh was widely expected to be confirmed. but when you weigh in the detailed allegations now and a name behind it, does it change the equation? >> well, i think it does. you have a situation where she's courageously come forward and made serious and credible allegations against this nominee. i think it would be irresponsible for the senate judiciary committee to proceed with a vote next week, in fact, it was be contemptuous of women across america to continue to try to rush this nomination to a vote. i think the nomination should be withdrawn. that's really the only reasonable course of action here, especially where you have a nominee who has testified in ways that are so misleading about the facts and the law, about the issue of what was the digital watergate, the theft of the senate judiciary committee's files when he was in the white house counsel's office and what he kne

joining us now is lisa graves, a former chief counsel for nominations on the senate judiciary committeeormer deputy assistant attorney general at the department of justice. lisa, thank you so much for being willing to come in on such short notice as we continue our breaking news coverage here. and my team tells me that you actually were involved in vetting brett kavanaugh for a previous post. if you could walk us through what you do know about him, what you learned about him in that process. and we've been having a little bit of a conversation here about how these things normally come to light that it often happens in the more private version of the process before it becomes public. i'm wondering if you could speak to that as well. >> brett kavanaugh was first nominated to the d.c. circuit in 2003. he was only 38 years old and he was offered this lifetime position on the highest court in our country. he had come to the senate judiciary committee as a nominee with very little litigation experience. he had been a clerk for a number of judges and his most notorious work had been working fo