back with me lisa rubin. thank you both for being here tonight. i don't know, brian, i just -- what is the -- what's the point of a gag order honestly when you have a media industrial complex that is effectively acting as, you know, a public defense line for donald trump? >> i think you're asking exactly the right question. this was on my lined last week with the debates about the jurors and how much the media outlets share about the jury no matter how much shared by "the new york times" and fox and ap, and i think it's so important you're identifying this because we have to see while we're on author un what is happening on author two. a year ago today tucker carlson was fired by fox news. and to fox's credit fox is a little bit less in craziville. for jesse waters, trump is god, right? and that is the programming every hour of every day on these other networks. >> can i ask you because you've been inside the fox complex and you have deep connections and have reported out from there. the arrangement between trump and the national enquirer was expl

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lisa rubin, stay with me. we have a lot more for you. coming up, trump has a new nickname tonight, unindicted co- conspirator number one. tomorrow, he will be back in a manhattan courtroom and known as defendant trump in his criminal hush money trial. we will have more on the former president's escalating legal dramas, coming up asked. asked. type 2 diabetes? discover the ozempic® tri-zone. ♪ ♪ i got the power of 3. i lowered my a1c, cv risk, and lost some weight. in studies, the majority of people reached an a1c under 7 and maintained it. i'm under 7. ozempic® lowers the risk of major cardiovascular events such as stroke, heart attack, or death in adults also with known heart disease. i'm lowering my risk. adults lost up to 14 pounds. i lost some weight. ozempic® isn't for people with type 1 diabetes. don't share needles or pens, or reuse needles. don't take ozempic® if you or your family ever had medullary thyroid cancer, or have multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type 2, or if allergic to it. stop ozempic® and get medical help righ

joining us now, lisa rubin. so, lisa, i call it an explosive day in court because pecker goes into great detail about the relationship he had with michael cohen and what he believed michael cohen was doing. and also not to mention the relationship he had with donald trump and direct conversations he had with trump about what they were doing in the 2016 campaign. >> i think david pecker is a far more important witness that many people appreciate. not only because he can speak as you just noted to the formation of the conspiracy that the d.a.'s office wants the jury to buy into, but because at multiple points in time, he talked to trump directly including with respect to whether it was worth it to buy karen mcdougle's story at a point in time that enquirer ceo and chief content officer, dylan howard, had already flown to california to interview mcdougle about her story. decided essentially that she was credible after which point trump calls pecker and said what do you think we should do. i also thought that it was

>> lisa rubin, do you want to answer that? >> a really difficult question to answer. i'm not sure we're going to see that but i'm also not sure that issuing a further gag order is necessarily the answer, here. i had a conversation earlier today with michael cohen, who as we all know is a known witness in his upcoming case before judge merchan, and is a person covered by this existing gag order. we can talk about all the ways in which judge merchan and his daughter are not currently protected, and michael cohen is, and michael collins point to me was, if you think that the gag order changes in the universe in which i live is a witness, and a known enemy of donald trump, you've got something else coming. i walked down the street every day in fear, i get death threats every day, because i am a person known to be involved in this proceeding, and the fact that he can no longer speak out against me even if he abides by that order doesn't change the daily existence for me and my family. not only do i want to say to john, i don't know what the answer is, but i will tell you t

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bring in ashley parker, msnbc political analyst, and vaughn hillyard is here with me on set and lisa rubinll. lisa, start us off. give us the latest on this. >> the latest on this, this is the second of two attempts as you noted to delay the monday start of the hush money trial. today, what was on the table was as trump is appealing judge juan merchan's gag order, as expanded to include the judge's family and the d.a.'s family now, he's saying that's unconstitutional and the trial itself should be put on hold while the appeal of that issue is being litigated. i want to point out, this is no ordinary appeal. usually a gag order couldn't be appealed until the end of the case when a defendant is convicted. so what they have done here is to sue the judge directly under a particular provision of new york law, where the standard for overturning the judge's action or any action by a state or local government is much higher than it would be for ordinary appeal. i don't expect them to win on the merit. they get a second crack at a stay, rather than being in front of one judge, they'll get to presen

joining me now is lisa rubin and sherilyn ifill -- to brilliant female legal eagles. grateful to be here with both of you. lisa, i want to start with you. i know this came in minutes ago, but you are both brilliant lawyers. i am grateful to you both for being here. give me your first reaction from hearing this on the special counsel? >> the thing that struck me immediately was the concessions that are here. some of these arguments we have seen before. this is the third time the special counsel office is briefing the issue before federal courts in the federal election interference case before -- for the first time, they are encountering a supreme court that could side with donald trump on more than one issue here, or more than one subpart of what being -- what is being decided. you see they make a new argument, even if the court holds that a former president is entitled to some immunity for criminal prosecution for official acts, that principle does not preclude trial on this indictment. and then they make a number of sub arguments. they say this is the big thing he has

lisa rubin will join us. don't go anywhere. ill join us. don't go anywhere. so i started .p to 5% cash back on business essentials with the chase ink business cash card from chase for business. (vo) want to upgrade but still paying off your locked phone? essentials with the chase ink business cash card break free from 3-year device contracts. switch to t-mobile, and we'll pay off your phone. and upgrade you to one of the latest 5g phones, free. ♪♪ >>> hi there, everyone. it's now 5:00 in new york. new york today was host to a uniquely extraordinary moment earlier the morning started with a judge's review of pending motions, having to do with what jurors will and will not be allowed to hear. this process could take weeks. the task is to determines of fate of one donald trump, charged with 34 kuntz o -- counts of an effort to cover up hush money. the rest of us are to settle in and watch the accountability play out for someone where there was an open question of if it ever was. we start the hour with some of our experts. msnbc legal analyst mary mcchord is here, plus former t

joining us now, msnbc legal correspondent, lisa rubin. georgetown university professor and author of policing the womb, michelle goodwin. and msnbc political analyst, peter baker. lisa, i want to begin with you on the legality of this and what this is going to mean potentially in 45 days. >> this means that after 15 weeks, women in arizona will not be able to get abortion and up to 15 weeks, they will be able to get it only in instances where their life is at risk. and as we know from watching other states experience this, certainly though a woman whose lives have been at risk in other states but whose physicians have been afraid of how they will demonstrate that and therefore have not performing the procedures. so i don't think you can walk away from this saying well, up to 15 weeks, women whose lives are in danger will be able to get the procedure. that, too, is in question now because of how you demonstrate a woman's life is at risk. >> the she the won responsible for enforcing this law? >> no and yes. she has said she will tell prosecu

coming up, andrew weissman and lisa rubin break down trumps attempt to ditch the judge in the upcoming hush money trial. as the biden economy continues to flourish, trumps new stock sputters. stephanie ruhle explains why the experts are trashing truth social, coming up next. coming wait, can we afford a safari? great question. like everything, it takes a little planning. or, put the money towards a down-payment... ...on a ranch ...in montana ...with horses let's take a look at those scenarios. j.p. morgan wealth management has advisors in chase branches and tools, like wealth plan to keep you on track. when you're planning for it all... the answer is j.p. morgan wealth management. we all need fiber for our digestive health, but less than 10% of us get enough each day. good thing metamucil gummies are an easy way to get prebiotic, plant-based fiber. with the same amount of fiber as 2 cups of broccoli. metamucil gummies. the easy way to get your daily fiber. they need their lawn back fast and you need scotts turf builder rapid grass. it grows grass 2 times faster than just seed alone. gi

also with us msnbc legal correspondent lisa rubin.amiche, we are seeing protesters already outside the supreme court because of this issue of abortion rights. lay out the case before the justices today and what are they considering? >> well, good morning, ana. this is really a significant abortion case, and the supreme court is considering simply in some cases whether federal law overrides state law. it is a significant abortion case because that federal law deals with emergency care, emergency medical treatment and labor act law. what it really says is if you go into an emergency room, you should be allowed -- you should get emergency stabilizing care, that anyone who comes into an emergency room should get that. idaho's law at issue here is an abortion law that outlaws the procedure except in cases of rape, incest, and when it's necessary to prevent the death of a mother. now, the federal law here and the biden administration is arguing that this law that idaho has, that it is not -- is conflicting with the federal law and the feder

msnbc legal correspondent lisa rubin is with me as well. unpack this for me.what else did the judge have to say? >> so one of the things, chris, that the judge is sags here, you're not being prosecuted just for making statements that are false. you're also being prosecuted for willfully and knowingly making false statements that impact governmental functions. for example, some of the charges here have to concern impersonating public officers, meaning the fake electors scheme or forging documents as in, again, the fake electors scheme, signing those certificates, what fani willis and her team say constitutes a forgery under georgia law. he's saying there's might come a point in time where after the factual record is developed this will be unconstitutional if they can't show those elements. if they can't show that it was willful and with knowledge and that it affected a governmental function, you can come back to me because i'm not foreclosing your ability to raise these changes at the appropriate time. but for now on the allegations by the d.a.'s office in the

i want to bring in msnbc legal correspondent lisa rubin, msnbc contributor and "new york times" investigative correspondent sue craig, and legal analyst kristy greenberg as i always do, i want to get, first of all, lisa, just your big takeaways from the morning because, again, we're reading the document. we're not in there. but for the last day of what's been a long week, it sounds like there was some real moments in that courtroom. >> there definitely were. i would say today was less successful for emil bove who is the lawyer who is questioning david pecker from trump's side, and in particular, he was trying to exploit perceived inconsistencies in pecker's testimony. not only his testimony here but contrasting it with things that he has said over the years to state and federal prosecutors. chris, you might be asking yourself, how does trump's team know what david pecker said to state and federal prosecutors, and that's because it's discoverable. and in particular, the notes that the fbi took during david pecker's meeting with federal prosecutors were discoverable in this court, and usable fo

joining us now, former litigator and msnbc legal correspondent lisa rubin, and former prosecutor and chuck rosenberg. president of the national action network and host of "politics nation," reverend al sharpton. lisa, we'll start with you. you were in the courtroom. aside from the historic aspect of this event yesterday, if you could break down the major developments in the first day legally for us. >> mika, one of the biggest things that happened yesterday, and, truthfully, what consumed the most amount of time, was the pretrial motions that the parties wanted heard before judge merchan. in particular, the d.a.'s office asking for clarification with respect to a number of evidentiary rulings judge merchan had made. in asking for the clarity, they took us on a tour of their case. it was almost like a mini opening statement. because we got a preview of all of the ways in which they are going to buttress the story that you and i and many viewers know so well. that michael cohen worked with donald trump to ensure that stormy daniels and karen mcdougal's stories never saw the light of day

lisa rubin. katherine christian joins us. she is now an msnbc legal analyst. and mark liebamich joins us. okay katherine. it seems like he is trying to just protect his case here. highly unlikely will go to trial before this election. >> as long as this case is with this judge, it will probably never go to trial. it is definitely not going to trial before election day. so this was easy. it is unheard of for a lawyer. being fundamentally flawed and, he is probably correct. because, everyone who has reviewed the willful retention of national defense information which 32 counts for donald trump is charged with. everyone, any legal scholar will tell you the presidential records acts is absolutely nothing to do with it. it is a civil law. it is about the presidential records being part of the public and when the president leaves office, they should be sent to the national archives. it is a crime and the presidential records act is not an obstruction of justice and trying to delete security footage which donald trump is accused of. >> can you break down for us exact

lisa rubin, msnbc legal correspondent, our tireless correspondent on this matters. thank you so much. >> thank you. >>> i want to turn now to catherine christian, she's a former assistant district attorney in the manhattan district attorney's office. i really appreciate you making the time to be with us. thank you. >> i'm glad to be here, rachel. can you tell us -- i guess i'm most interested in your overall impression of how today went, and again sort of version of the question i asked lisa, was this a normal day in court? was this the kind of proceeding, the kind of pace, the kinds of yeses and noes from the judge you would expect in a typical new york d.a.'s case or does this really feel different? >> it was normal. it was interesting some of my colleagues who are former federal prosecutors were shocked because it's very different in the federal system. the judge is the one who does all of the questioning for the voir dire, and it's really much more smoother. in the state system, in new york state the attorneys take a part of it. also in the state system here in

kirschner, a former federal prosecutor, an msnbc legal analyst and nbc news legal correspondent lisa rubinxactly what that means. >> so we knew, jose, that donald trump and his lawyers were going to file some sort of motion about pretrial publicity. that was something that they raised at last monday's hearing exactly a week ago, but we didn't know what kind of relief they were going to ask for. now we know. they're asking for an indefinite postponement of the trial on the basis that the pretrial publicity surrounding donald trump and his alleged criminality is so sif fuse throughout new york it's impossible for him to get a fair trial until that publicity abates. you and i both know that donald trump who posted to truth social this weekend more than 70 times is a great generator of his own pretrial publicity. still, his lawyers maintain that some of the publicity surrounding, for example, the e. jean carroll trial or allen weisselberg's recent guilty plea to perjury in the new york civil fraud case is so prejudicial to him that he can't possibly get a fair trial or shake here in new york u

lisa rubin, msnbc legal correspondent. stay hydrated my friend.ch. >>> thank you. >>> i want to turn now to katherine christian. who has lived the life of these prosecutors in court bringing this case today. i really appreciate you making time to be here with us. thank you. >> i'm glad to be here. >> i'm most interested in your overall impression of how today went. the version i asked, was this a normal day in court? was this the kind of normal proceeding, the kind of yeses and noes you would expect in a typical new york case? does this feel different? >> it was normal. it was interesting some of my colleaguing were shocked. because it is very different in the federal system. the judge is the one who does all of the questioning. it is really much more smoother. in new york state, the attorneys take a part of it. also, in the state system here in new york, there's a lot of preliminary matters that happen right before jury selection. like what you heard this morning. issues about what evidence the prosecutors want to bring in. there is also i think

former prosecutor and msnbc legal analyst, charles coleman, and legal correspondent, lisa rubin. this was a biting moment from jack smith's team, and it went further than any other legal filing that we've seen from anymore in regards directly to judge aileen cannon's own decisions. >> and the frustration almost leaps off the page. i want to give you and our viewers context, we are dealing with a judge who has left undecided a number of really important issues as we approach a trial in this case for which a date has not been set. and yet, despite that, she has asked both sides to propose jury instructions on this particular issue rather than submit jury instructions all at once as is conventionally done. what the government is saying is this is basically like a bad car crash between two totally different statutes, you have the presidential records act over here, the espionage act over here, and shall the two meet until now that one preempts the other. >> explain the presidential records act and why it is even at issue here. >> so the presidential records act, the purpose of that w

msnbc legal correspondent lisa rubin joins me now. what more can you tell us, lisa? >> chris, the decision that judge aileen cannon rendered a request that would have revealed the names of close to two dozen witnesses that may testify for the prosecution if and when this case goes to trial. the government pushed back and asked her to reconsider because they said revealing their names would compromise not only their safety but the very integrity of their investigation in the case because it could expose them to efforts to interfere with their testimony. judge aileen cannon last night begrudgingly agreeing with them, they made several arguments, the end result is witness names will not become public, and in ordering that their substantiative statements be revealed in interviews with the fbi, for example, in the past, she has also said that think details in those statements that could be used to identify them, those two must be redacted. >> lisa rubin, thank you for that. >>> and the markets meantime, are tumbling after a hotter than expected inflation report. cnbc seni

. >> lisa rubin, we were chatting in the break and even chuck said ask lisa first.it in layman's terms, when you buy a house and you start the deal, you have to put a certain amount of money in escrow. then you literally have to prove that you have the funds, and you have to literally they take the funds out of your bank account and put them somewhere else. is the question here, dedrick donald trump do that, where is the money, does the money actually exist or like what is going on here? >> they are trying to figure out something different than that. it's not, does the money exist but assumed that trump gave night specialty insurance company the right to seize something worth $175 million in the event that they have to post the bond, what is it that he gave them the right to. what did he pledged as collateral for the bond, was it cash in a bank account, was it bonds, don hankey has given a number of interviews, he's been surprisingly forthcoming, but his precise statements have differed a little but he told one outlet it was all in cash, he told another it was cash

with us now to talk more about all of this, msnbc legal correspondent lisa rubin and charles coleman, former prosecutor in brooklyn, new york, now a civil rights attorney, also an msnbc legal analyst. so, lisa, you were inside the courtroom for the sentencing. what was that like? >> it was somber, jose, because, of course, this is the second time that allen weisselberg has pled guilty to a crime, associated with his service to the trump organization. however, it lasted only a matter of minutes. allen weisselberg entering the courtroom this morning, dressed in a zip-up jacket and sweat pants. that's a sure indication as any that a defendant expects to go straight from their sentencing to jail and that's indeed what happened this morning. once the judge heard that both the district attorney and allen weisselberg's lawyers had no disagreement with the five-month sentence to which he had previously agreed, he was immediately handcuffed and escorted out a back door to the courtroom, where presumably he was put in a car and taken directly to rikers island where he previously served another

lisa rubin is an msnbc legal correspondent. okay, lisa, can you explain the trump team's argument here and whether there's anything to it? >> so i can do my best, and i'll play an advocate for them right now as to why they're renewing this. they did move last year for judge merchan's recusal, on the basis that judge merchan's daughter is the leader of a political digital strategy firm that among other clients has the biden/harris campaign and done work for congressman adam schiff. their argument at the time was that historically that firm had made a number of arguments that were sort of antithetical to president trump, that it had advocated for people who were his political enemies and as such, there was a conflict between her and them, such that the judge himself needed to recuse. that's because new york statutes call for recusal where somebody who's a sixth degree relative, not just a first degree or a second degree, up to a six-definitely relative has an interest that would be substantially affected by the case. the ethics bo

with us now is msnbc legal correspondent lisa rubin. good morning. what did the manhattan d.a.'fice say in this filing? >> so, jose, trump is trying to delay the april 15th beginning of this trial by noting that there has been abundant pretrial publicity surrounding his case and therefore it would be unfair to start the trial on april 15th at least until some of this publicity dissipates. what the manhattan d.a.'s office is saying this morning, it is the former president's own incessant rhetoric that is leading to the pretrial publicity. it would be perverse to reward him for talking as often as he is and making the trial as much a focus of public attention as it is. that, of course, also comes as some of the rhetoric is about judge merchan's own daughter, and her role in a digital strategy firm that works with democratic candidates including the biden/harris campaign. it is on that basis that trump's lawyers also have told judge merchan on monday that they would like to make a second motion for his disqualification, recusal motion, to have another judge preside over the case. m

joining us now msnbc legal correspondent, lisa rubin. sorry to get in your camera frame there, lisa. i want to start with florida because we finally got a ruling, i think we were waiting six weeks for this. we finally got a ruling from judge aileen cannon on the presidential records act. donald trump was trying to get it thrown out based on that. what happened? >> she basic said, and this is something she could have written as soon as the motion papers came in. it's what any judge would have done in this situation. on the motion to dismiss, the obligation is to take the indictment as true. there was nothing that mentioned the presidential records act. there's nothing in the case law federally or even in the legislative history that would suggest the espionage act is somehow mooted or displaced by the rights of a president to designate documents as personal under the presidential records act. she's saying for right now i'm going to accept the allegations as true. the it does not provide me with a basis to dismiss 32 counts of national defe

a form erp federal prosecutor and msnbc legal analyst, and here in studio, msnbc legal analyst, lisa rubin what is jack smith so mad about? >> he's mad for a couple of reasons. we don't have a trial date in the case and judge cannon is ordering the special counsel and trump lawyers to submit jury instructions on a specific topic. as glenn knows well, you submit your jury instructions when your close to trial. she asked about the jury instructions about the presidential documents act. she wanted them to say what the jury can and can't decide about if a president can designate records as personal versus presidential and if they do that, is the president the sole decider with respect to that in ways that would negate prosecution. >> let me make this a little simpler. bottom line is, personal versus what's part of the law, right, that distinction is incredibly important. >> but it's irrelevant to whether something can be charged under espionage act, and that's what jack smith is upset about. he's saying to the extent that you're telling the jury the presidential records act plays any part info

let's discuss all of this with lisa rubin and former federal prosecutor jessica roth. good to see you, so, lisa, the appeals court judge wasted no time at all, made it very clear that this was a bad argument in her mind that trump was making to try to delay this trial even further. walk us through trump's argument and what the judge had to say. >> first of all, the judge didn't say very much at all. all she said was she was denying the request to stay the trial while the court considers his argument that venue, meaning where the trial is situated, is inappropriate in manhattan because the pretrial publicity is so pervasive that he can't get a fair trial here in manhattan on a you and i and jessica and our viewers know that much of that pretrial publicity has been created by donald trump himself. and that was part of the argument yesterday. the other part of the argument, of course, is the fact that this is the former president, and wherever he goes, that publicity will follow him. part of the argument that the d.a.'s office was making was that in whatever county you're

i want to bring in msnbc legal correspondent lisa rubin, elise jo r dan is here, former white house andmsnbc political analyst. lisa, monday is the start of jury selection. what are you going to be watching for? >> i'm going to be watching to see how often the defense tries to use challenges for cause, so chris, let me just lay out for you and your viewers, there are two types of ways to get rid of potential jurors. one is called a preemptory challenge. you can exercise it for any reason, no questions asked. the other is a challenge for cause where you have reason to believe that somebody should be excused because there's no way they can be fair and impartial. that's where the answers to that 42 question and multiple sub parts of questions, jury questionnaire comes in. i'll be looking to see how difficult are the trump lawyers going to make it to select a jury by pointing to somebody's media diet or the fact that they have attended a rally or are they going to sit back and try and build a composite. in other words, there will have to be multiple factors to have to excuse someone. most o

with us now to talk more about this, lisa rubin who has been in court every day of this trial, and jeff vits, a defense attorney who represented three white house employees during the clinton presidency. lisa, who exactly is gary farro, and why is he important to this case? >> jose, that's the question on many people's list. gary farro is not a household name in trump world. he was michael cohen's banker at the now defunct first republic bank. michael cohen had maintained multiple accounts there over the years, but in october of 2016, he contacted gary farro and said he needed urgently to open a new account for a limited liability company he was starting. that's the company through which michael cohen made payments to stormy daniels after trump stalled so long that cohen became afraid that keith davidson, stormy daniels's lawyer and stormy daniels would either sell their story somewhere else or tell it somewhere else or both. therefore gary farro has a number of email exchanges and communications with michael cohen that buttress his story about the payments to daniels. he also can testi

joining us now is msnbc legal correspondent lisa rubin, charles coleman former brooklyn, new york, prosecutoregal analyst and host of "the charles coleman podcast" is with us as well. lisa, what goes on behind the scenes? so this is maybe not usual, but every wednesday the judge has said he hopes to be down, which kind of gives them an opportunity to reset. what do you do with that time? >> you prepare for your next examinations, and you read the transcript exhaustively. you think about -- if you're the prosecutors, you think about not only what ground you haven't covered yet, but to what extent you want to double back and without asking cumulative questions, seek some clarification on things that might not have come out as cleanly as you want them to. if you're the defense, conversely, you're reading that transcript and already planning your cross. some of which you might have to write on the fly. so if you're a defense lawyer, you have a cross examination outline ready, anticipaing the lines of questioning that the prosecutors are going to ask, but having a day off from trial is golden beca

i want to bring in msnbc legal correspondent lisa rubin, and "new york times" investigative reporter craig. both have been closely watching on tvs inside overflow rooms. okay, lisa, maybe it was all calm inside. i can tell you watching from the outside it was like juror number two has gone what? juror number four now. they're having a hearing. juror number four is gone. what? i mean, give us your summary. what was going on today? >> well, as you noted, chris, and then there were five. we have two jurors who were seated yesterday who are no longer going to be part of this panel. one of them, juror number two came in this morning and notified the court that particularly because of the public attention being paid to this trial she no longer felt she could be fair and impartial. based on the amount of information that had already been released about her, she was getting calls from friends and family asking her if she was impanelled on this jury. that was too much pressure for this juror to take. she asked essentially to be excused and she was. juror number four is a different story. juror

let's bring in msnbc legal correspondent lisa rubin, and msnbc legal analyst and former assistant manhattan district attorney catherine christian. ladies, so good to have you here. lisa, let's start with the expanded gag orders. what are the limitations exactly and what is the explanation the judge is giving. >> let's start with what the limitations are because they're largely the same limits as before in terms of who he cannot talk about and in what context with two extra provisions. one pertaining to the d.a.'s family and the other pertaining to the court's family. meaning he can't speak about them if the intent of those statements is to interfere with the administration of justice, or if he knows before he speaks that that's likely going to be the impact that his statements have. the other thing, though, i want to bring to your viewers' attention and to yours is what happens if he violates this gag order? merchan is making that clear as well. he's saying any future violations, not may result or could result, but will result in sanctions under two provisions of new york's judiciary law th

joining us now, msnbc legal correspondent lisa rubin. it's good to have you.t do we know about hope hicks and her potential testimony? >> katy, much of what we know about hope hicks and her potential testimony dates all the way back to 2019, because of an fbi affidavit that was filed in connection with michael cohen's prosecution by the federal government. in that affidavit, there are details about hope hicks' involvement in conversations between donald trump and michael cohen about the settlement with stormy daniels and the implication from the timing of those conversations is that hope hicks, then a communications adviser to then candidate donald trump was in the know about the payments to stormy daniels and understood why they were being made and the context in which that was happening, which as you know well more than anyone was the "access hollywood" tape. >> would she be a witness for the prosecution? >> she would be a witness for the prosecution. and the expectation is that she would show up, pursuant to a trial subpoena, not necessarily voluntarily, bu

kristy greenberg, former deputy chief for the sdny criminal, and msnbc legal correspondent lisa rubin is here with me in the studio. "the new york times" described this today, weisselberg's pattern of allegiance to trump ultimately resulting in a jail sentence. can you remind us how this all came about and how it connects back to the former president? >> so allen weisselberg was prosecuted for perjury, and that perjury occurred in the context of the new york attorney general's civil fraud trial that was just tried before judge arthur engoron. that's the case that led to that $454 million judgment. both at two depositions and during trial, mr. weisselberg is accused of having lied about his involvement and the false valuation of trump's triplex apartment at trump tower. you will recall that that apartment was falsely represented to be 30 plus thousand square feet when in actuality it only has 10,000 square feet. mr. weisselberg didn't learn the truth about that until after the forbes article in 2016. again, in actuality, documents show according to the d.a.'s office that he was very mu

according to lisa rubin, pecker said he called cohen and told him, we have to go forward with this story, so they negotiated $30,000 to catch and kill this story. that supposedly, again, untrue, donald trump had fathered this child. pecker agreed to pay it. i agree that it is important that this be removed from the market and cohen thanked him and said that the boss was very pleased. when you talk about a juror, how much of this is common sense? for example, michael cohen will almost certainly come on and say, yes, that was the conversation that the boss was very pleased. donald trump told me he was very pleased that this wasn't coming out at this time, but the defense is going to say that never happened. this came at a time, though, when nobody expected this to be an issue at trial. nobody thought this was going to be a case that went forward to donald trump. how do you present something like this in the most forceful way? >> well, if it was just michael cohen saying this, you could say to the defense has it, they can just put him up as being a liar. you have pecker saying this is what

i want to bring in msnbc's legal correspondent, lisa rubin.athan allen and suzanne craig, all have been in the courthouse covering the trial this week. thank you all for being here. i know there have been some long days and a lot to get to here. let's start with what more do we know about these seven jurors who have been seated? >> so ana, i want to be judicious about talking about the jurors because there was a lot of information discussed in the courtroom that if put together in composite form would allow people even to do a linkedin search or google search and perhaps discern the identities of these folks. i want to talk about them in the aggregate. a number of them are married, some of them have adult children, but i think one thing that's notable about them in addition to the fact that we've got two lawyers, and oftentimes lawyers litigating try to make sure there are no lawyers on a panel is there's nobody here who has small children at home, in part because one of the initial questions is are you unable to serve, and when we saw many pe

when mina is msnbc legal correspondent, lisa rubin., every time we do one of these, you can sort of lose sight of how completely out presidents it is, how different it is. it does not happen, it doesn't happen in courtrooms. it doesn't happen with defendants. we are just in a totally different universe in which this man with a lot of power and a lot of followers is berating the judges daughter. >> every time you and i get together or i show up on other shows, talk about the extorting arenas of the moment, that in and of itself becomes ordinary for viewers, who then grow inoculated to this kind of behavior that is so far beyond the pale of what is acceptable in most courtrooms in the united states that we forget. >> or even what would be attempted. you know what i mean? yes, it is unacceptable but even in a universe in which there are millions of criminal defendants, this just doesn't really happen. >> no, it doesn't. most criminal defendants would face consequences for sooner than donald trump has. >> there have been some consequences.

nbc's vaughn hillyard and msnbc legal correspondent lisa rubin are with me now.'s talk, first of all, vaughn, if we can about the relationship between hope hicks and donald trump. he broke with a lot of his former white house aides. what do we know about that, and what information she might have? >> hope hicks has been kind of quiet. >> very quiet. >> the last time we were talking about hope hicks is when one year ago she testified in front of the grand jury specifically to this hush money case. hope hicks, per federal court records dating back to michael cohen when he pleaded guilty, he contended at the time that there was a phone call in which she latched not only michael cohen but with donald trump together, and so there's questions about on october 18th, 2016, the day stormy daniels came forward to the "national enquirer" and said she was ready to tell her story, that there were conversations that hope hicks was allegedly a part of and then we know she was on another phone call later that month on the actual day that michael cohen agreed to pay that $130,000

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joining us now is lisa rubin. i know it has been a long day.nks for being here. >> rachel, thank you for having me. >> so you are a legal correspondent for us here on msnbc. before that, i know you describe yourself as a recovering lawyer. you are an experienced lawyer. was this a normal day in court today? >> partially what was extraordinary was how normal it was. i was saying it was moments of the mundane and extraordinary. there were moments blistering in their boringness and even the former president appeared to be bored by them. i think that's a generous description. that includes when jurors were reading off their answers to the jury questionnaire because, of course, when somebody is not reading the questions to them and they're ticking off what the answers are, it is not the most scintillating thing to listen to. there was argument specific to this case and the former president and specifically listening to the d.a.'s office outline some of the evidence that they would like to present and on which they wanted some clarifications from jud

they don't have lisa rubin on speed dial like we luckily do. how many americans do you think are watching all of these trials, and basically just rooting for their side regardless of the evidence? >> that's a great question. i think probably those who are paying attention to these, it's a predominating view people looking at, i think they're looking at it through an election context, a political context, and it's a sad state of affairs but it's also, it's such a noise thing at this point. there are so many cases, so many complexities. a lot of the stuff is pretty turgid to begin with and hard for people to follow, i think the basic contours of this are the broad trump strategy no matter what the case, is, it seems certainly with judge cannon, he has a willing partner, and some of the hedging steps that she was doing to rule two different circumstances, was just designed to drag this out. and it seemed completely unworkable, and obviously i'm not a lawyer, but it certainly didn't seem to make sense on that front. i think at this point, it's peop

lisa rubin is following this for us. this is fast and furious, his third loss in 24 hours. the first losses before judge aileen cannon. in some ways, a significant one in the sense that she's saying at this stage, she is not going to dismiss counts 1 through 32 which charge willful retention in an unauthorized way. but what i want to point out to you and our viewers is actually the second part of this very short three-page order is far more significant because that's where judge cannon is saying to the extent that i asked both sides for jury instructions on the presidential records act issue that the president raised and to the extent the special counsel asked me to rule on that promptly, and exercise their appellate rights i'm not going to do that. to the extent the special counsel demands an anticipatory, prior to a charge conference, that's where the jury instructions are hammered out between the parties and the judge, and prior to the presentation of trial defenses in evidence, the court declines that demand as, and here's the sort of thought that's worth the statement

. >>> joining us as promised, msnbc legal correspondent, lisa rubin, i want to talk about the witnessise is not a surprise necessarily to someone like me who has been following the trial closely, it's madeline wester house, trump's personal secretary in the white house for two years, and then she left, somewhat unceremoniously, after having an off the record dinner with reporters where she got a little bit too talkative about trump's relationships with his daughters. she left not of her own volition. why is she in this trial, that centers upon the hush money payments to stormy daniels. it's theoretically because she put paperwork in front of donald trump that has to do with the cover up and the crime here. >> what sort of paperwork? >> it could be checks, e-mails, documentation, of for example the legal invoices that are among those things alleged to be the false business documents here at the heart of the felony charges. we're not sure exactly what it is. i'll remind you in october of 2017, one of the checks to michael cohen to reimburse him for the payments was signed by one donald

joining us now is lisa rubin. gary farro, he's not a grain. he's a banker.what we should expect tomorrow. >> he was michael cohen's banker at first republic bank. it was a private bank, meaning they don't deal with normal individuals, gary farro was careful to say you didn't have to be high net worth to be there. but it's a high touch surface which serves someone like michael cohen well. he had four or five accounts there in fall of 2015, october specifically. and contacted gary farro and said i need to open an llc account immediately. that is the account through which he paid stormy daniels. >> the alert that was put on the transaction. >> i don't know if i do. clearly you and i have read some of that same reporting. i don't believe that the person at first republic who notified the treasury department that there was something suspicious about that transaction has ever been named. whether it's gary farro or not, we don't know. i think he's there to authenticate documents and records, including the application that michael cohen put in to open this account w

let's bring in msnbc legal analyst, danny cevallos and lisa rubin. good morning to you both. n a minute, lisa, but let's talk about the substance of it. so you have these 11 so-called fake electors. seven aides to donald trump including rudy giuliani, jenna ellis, john eastman and those names we mentioned. what exactly are these people accused of doing around the 2020 election? >> well, the 11 fake electors are accused of forging documents, right? by signing an electors certificate and then sending it onto the arizona secretary of state, to the united states senate, to the national archives which is what real electors do. they're facing three counts of forgery, but they're also facing counts that have to do with fraud. fraud and trying to sort of hold themselves out to be the legitimate electors, and of course, that's a scheme that they engineered with the help of the seven redacted individuals who as you noted, include several trump attorneys, but also mark meadows and mike roman who was the director of election day operations. >> so help me out here. >> it's all right there.

msnbc legal correspondent lisa rubin and msnbc contributor sue craig just left the courthouse. they got our first insights from what it was like to be inside today. okay, lisa, we heard from the beginning, right, that jury selection could take a week or two. somehow it feels like it ismove ing very slowly. is that a misperception? >> i wish that we had what is about to come next before the lunch break because i think that will give us a much better sense of how quickly things are going to go. after the lunch break, we're going to come back and each side is going to have an opportunity to strike jurors from among the first 12. there are 18 people seated in the jury box right now. they can exercise both peremptory challenge and for cause. each side has ten peremptory, it can be for whatever reason and doesn't get stated. the challenge for cause is someone you don't believe can be fair and impartial, given their answers to some of the further questions that both sides got to ask to them today in increments of half an hour each. both joshua steinglass and todd blanche got half an h

lisa rubin, as always, thank you. all right. in the next hour, everybody, the president is going to deliver remarks from wisconsin on a new plan to alleviate student debt for millions of americans. the move is the latest in a flurry of new developments impacting the 2024 presidential race. donald trump is now directly addressing his stance on abortion on truth social. he announced he thinks laws should be determined by the states. while a new nbc news analysis of the electoral college suggests biden is trailing by more, maybe much more than the national polls suggest. i want to bring in nbc's gabe gutierrez reporting for us from madison, wisconsin. also with us is mark murray and former republican congressman of florida david jolly and msnbc political analyst. gabe, if you will, start us off. give us the expectations of what we'll hear from the president today in wisconsin. >> hi there, yasmin. good afternoon. well, air force one just touched down here in wisconsin a few minutes ago. the president on his way here to the madison

our correspondent lisa rubin is on the way making her way to the cameras.a minute. "deadline white house" continues after a quick break. don't go anywhere. ontinues after a quick break. don't go anywhere. the night. it's all the things that keep this world turning. it's the go-tos that keep us going. the places we cheer. trust. hang out. and check in. they all choose the advanced network solutions and round the clock partnership from comcast business. powering more businesses than anyone. powering possibilities. to me, harlem is home. but home is also your body. i asked myself, why doesn't pilates exist in harlem? so i started my own studio. getting a brick and mortar in new york is not easy. chase ink has supported us from studio one to studio three. when you start small, you need some big help. and chase ink was that for me. earn up to 5% cash back on business essentials with the chase ink business cash card from chase for business. make more of what's yours. ♪ i'm gonna hold you forever... ♪ ♪ i'll be there... ♪ ♪ you don't... ♪ ♪ you don't have to worry