smith. >> weeks, months, pass. no sign of gavin. with no answers, lisa was forced to reveal something publicly. something painful. ybe crucial. >> coming up. what had happened to gavin smith? >> it didn't make sense to me. >> lisa, i think this is suicide, and then we go i think this is a murder. our gut instincts are going different ways. >> you wondered if she had something to do with this? >> it crossed our minds all the time. somehow, it kept playing back, why won't you search? >> when dateline continues. migraine attacks, all in one. don't take if allergic to nurtec. allergic reactions can occur, even days after using. most common side effects were nausea, indigestion, and stomach pain. ask about nurtec odt. inez, let me ask you, you're using head and shoulders, right? only when i see flakes. then i switch back to my regular shampoo. you should use it every wash, otherwise the flakes will come back. tiny troy: he's right, you know. is that tiny troy? the ingredients in head and shoulders keep the microbes that cause flakes at bay. microbes, really? they're always on your scalp... little rascals... but good ne

and lisa smith has done her best to restart her life. she lives in hawaii no. far from the wreckage of that california life. that never was quite as perfect as it could've been. >> it is painful to remain there. this is starting fresh. it feels like sanctuary. >> that is all for this edition of "dateline". >>> this sunday, pressing pause as israel pushes deeper into gaza, the u.s. applies more pressure to pause the fighting and get more aid into gaza. >> far too many palestinians have been killed. far too many have suffered. >> is enough being done to protect civilian lives? i'll speak to the israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu. >>> plus, 2024 strategy. polls show president biden is struggling even as democrats win big on election day. >> abortion access is the law of the land in ohio! >> while senator joe manchin says he won't run for re-election. hurting democrats' chances of holding the senate and potentially challenging president biden. will democrats still be able to motivate voters with biden on the ticket? i'll talk to senator chris murphy of conne

i want to start by lisa smith about the urgent need for border security, for policy changes and to changes in interior enforcement. i just want to take a minute to ask a couple of questions. when you testified on march 29th for the subcommittee regarding president's fy '24 proposal, there were 10 encounters of the southern border. on monday, that number was a 500 which is eight times were in the 1000 daily and performer boss secretary jeh johnson will constitute a crisis. on that date, you did not say that we had a crisis. question for you today, do you believe that we have a crisis before us? >> it is very important. what i described as a crisis? i do not diminish the significance of complexity, if i may -- >> i only have five minutes. i want to move on. do you think that we have a childcare crisis in this country? >> senator, i don't think there is any doubt. >> ndot. this is an emergency, senator mayorkas. >> it is urgent that we receive the funding for our personnel and our tools to enhance the security of our borders. >> it is an emerging. they put it in an emergency supplemental requ

we know jack smith travels with even more security than what lisa described.nd nara, they are involved in the mar-a-lago documents investigation, and now prosecution of donald trump are facing unprecedented threat levels. we know mitt romney pays out of pocket for his security. some reporting from mckay coppins. we know that everyone that gets targeted, ruby freeman and shaye moss have described and testified that their lives were changed forever, that they feel like prisoners in their own homes basically. it never stops. no one is spared. general milley, bill barr, john kelly are the latest targets in terms of what trump is talking about. but the threat environment doesn't abate for previous targets. and i wonder the natural extension for trump as he heads into the last 12 months of a presidential campaign? >> well, you know, the first thing you think about is how much of this is empowered by social media. there was an era in which you could make verbal threats, you could write a nasty letter, but you couldn't incent so easily crowds of people in realtime to

. >> lisa, talk to me about the interplay of this motion and jack smith's case?well, it's interesting because yesterday, jack smith's team had a brief due in the d.c. circuit where they are trying to oppose donald trump's efforts to stay the gag order in judge chutkan's case. i was really curious to know whether they were going to attach that motion yesterday, a truth social post that trump made yesterday morning where he quote unquote, retruthed some random person's post saying that letitia james and judge engoron should be subject to a citizens arrest. and they didn't do that. they do make the d.c. court aware of the threats trump has made to alvin bragg, to trish james, and not by name but also by judge engoron who has had hundreds of phone calls to his chambers and to the court with vicious threats associated with them. so they are very well aware that not only is trump threatening the witnesses in their case, but he's making threats to people in the larger public domain as they pertain to other cases, and that that should all be pertinent to the d.c. circuit

smith's team about those issues. >> ken dilanian, thank you very much. and joining us now, msnbc legal analyst, lisa rubin, and former u.s. attorney, and msnbc legal analyst, barbara mcquade. kudos to my producer for getting the sound bytes in, and you, lisa rubin for pointing out the last one when it comes to violence. can i ask you a little bit more about the arguments, excuse me, that donald trump's team was making. ken alluded to it, he should be able to say what he wants on social media, on a rally, and the judges, how do they make that decision between political speech, i'm going to say whatever i want, i'm going to defend myself, and witness intimidation. >> it's not just witness intimidation, it's participant intimidation, and their concern isn't just the witnesses but the prosecutors in the case, the courtroom personnel, and even the jurors, and one of the things of particular concern to the special counsel's offices is how will some of this criticism of other participants in the process, including witnesses, how will that be perceived by jurors so even if you, katy tur, as a witness aren't

smith trial could last march, april, may. who knows what happens after that? july is the republican convention. august is when fani willis would like her trial to start. you're talking about, lisa, the entire year, effectively, march until after the election, being filled with courtroom drama for donald trump. >> absolutely. and the one other thing that i would point out, alex, is that fani willis, in her request to have this trial on august 5th, as also told judge mcafee that she wants anyone who's going to negotiate a plea to do so by june 21st, and so that would falls back dab into what we would understand is the interim period between the two trials. >> the interregnum. >> correct. so judge chutkan is done with her trial by june and we're not expecting fani willis to begin to august if she gets her way, the mid-period for the convictions is going to be another decision point about who'going to plead out, because if fani willis gets her way, june 21st is that dropped in time for anyone who wants to negotiate a deal. >> the end of flipping season. you can wear white pants after that. dave, when we talk about what judge chutkan, her ruling today, the evidence relating to janua

jack smith absolutely will rely on that intelligence, on the evidence that it was conveyed to and obvious to president trump. it informs his words, and his very strong evidence of his intent. >> lisa rubin, lest you thought you were getting a thanksgiving holiday, monday trump's appeal of the gag order, oral arguments, what do you think we can expect? >> i'm looking for the judges on the panel to really try and understand what the danger is and one of the things that trump has argued is nobody has been hurt, there is no evidence that anybody on the receiving end has actually been intimidated from participating in the process. i'm really interested in hearing how the special counsel's office is going to contest that and in particular to what extent they're going to reveal the level of security, for example, regarding their own apparatus. we know that folks at the department of justice who are career officials who have been detailed to jack smith's office, they have security. we know jack smith has his own considerable security. i'm considered in hearing them explain why donald trump's words, even if there hasn't been any manifest danger can no longer be tolerated by any federal cou

lisa ruben. thank you both for joining us this afternoon. andrew, let me start with you, tell me about the connection for anyone who doesn't understand the legality of this of jack smithto the new york civil fraud trial for his own trial. >> sure. well, you have two judges, one in a criminal case in d.c. and one in a civil case in new york dealing with a similar issue, which is that donald trump is a defendant and he is speaking in ways that the government thinks and the court has agreed, the trial court has agreed endangers the integrity of the judicial process. that judicial process can be a civil case as in new york or a criminal case as in d.c. now, the gag order in d.c. was much broader. it related to the court and the court staff, but also to jack smith and his staff and to jurors and witnesses. the new york gag order was very limited, it related to the court staff and particularly about not speaking about one particular principal law clerk that was something that the judge said was prohibited. both of those so-called gag orders are on appeal and both are stayed pending appeal, meaning that they are not yet in effect pending the outcome of that appellate process