. >> all this caught the attention of liz cheney. a conservative and daughter of former vice president dick cheney. at the time she was number three in house republican leadership. the conference chair. >> it concerned me because we wanted people to be able to vote as republicans. i wasn't concerned about it from a constitutional perspective at all. those concerns clearly came later on. >> cheney's constitutional concerns came about five weeks before election day. >> then president trump was asked if he would commit to a peaceful transfer of power. >> win, lose or draw in this election, will you commit here today to a peaceful transfer of power after the election? >> we'll have to see what happens. you know that. i've been complaining very strongly about the ballots and the ballots are a disaster. >> you tweeted a response tom. you wrote, the peaceful transfer of power is enshrined in our constitution and fundamental to the survival of our republic. american leaders swear an oath to the constitution. we will uphold that oath. that su

when liz cheney, the republican, the vice chair of the committee, when she concluded her remarks, sheutlined trump's campaign in so many ways, the conspiracy that's laid out here, to lie about the election, the pressure on the vice president to knock out the electric tort votes and efforts to corrupt the justice department, the push on election offices to change the result. the fake elect tore scheme, summoning the mob to the capitol and directing hem to the capitol and said this after outlining all of those different parts of the conspiracy on successive days. >> every one of these elements of the planning for january 6th is an independently serious matter. they were all ultimately focused on overturning the election, and they all have one other thing in common, donald trump participated in each substantially and personally. he oversaw or directed the activity of those involved. >> she sacrificed her political career to make that argument before the american people. one of the most conservative republicans in the house of representatives. >> and what she said is echoed in various way

liz cheney has said many times both during the hearing and since that donald trump remains a clear and present danger because he has perpetuated this. we just saw one of his counsel walking down the same road. >> let me pick up on that because we've talked so much about what's in this indictment really being very reminiscent even trump's lawyer said some of what the january six committee spelled it. when liz cheney republican and vice chair of the committee, when she concluded her remarks, she outlined trump's campaigns in so many ways the conspiracy that's laid out here. to lie about the election, the pressure on the vice president to not count the electoral votes, efforts to corrupt the justice department, pushing legislators and election officials to change the results in the states, fake electors scheme, summoning the mob to the capital, and she said this after outlining all those different parts of the conspiracy on successive days. >> every one of these elements of the planning for january 6th is in independently seriously matter. they were all ultimately focused on overturning t

liz cheney had an impact on the midterms. >> yeah. >> liz cheney is a conservative republican named cheney day for a year before the midterms, had an impact on what voters did. i don't think we know for a fact that chris christie can't have the same kind of impact on what voters do. >> i think that's absolutely right. and i think we don't know how this is going to play. and if we've seen anything, it's that a lot of this polling has been wrong, right? like all of it. we were expecting a midterm that was going to be a red wave. it ended up being a tiny, tiny bit. i do say i do think they're absolutely weak. none of us know what is going to happen. >> everybody is trying to change chunks out of trump. it look likes he will be the nominee against biden. but he will likely lose. does this influence those independents who i say are going to decide this election 49% of people in the country broadly are independents. in new hampshire, it's much higher than republicans and democrats. so those are going to continue to be the folks that are going to determine this election, and probably the next cou

— trump repeatedly, like liz cheney or adam kinsinger, they are out— cheney or adam kinsinger, they aremp. 0k. really interesting insights. luke| interesting insights. luke broad weather and congressmen davis, really good to have you both of the programme. thank you forjoining us on bbc news tonight. you. the former president will now face a very busy legal calendar in the months ahead. let's take a look at the timeline of the trials that are set and the proposed dates. the first is the federal investigation into donald trump's alleged efforts to overturn the 2020 election results. this was brought by special counseljack smith and would be tried here in washington, dc. the proposed trial date is january 2nd. trump's legal team has proposed a 2026 start date, the georgia election case that we are looking at today brought by fani willis has a previous proposed trial start date of march 4th. ms willis may seek to speed up that time frame. the investigation into mishandling of classified documents, also brought by jack smith is currently being tried in florida. that's where trump resides. t

and then you have liz cheney and kinsinger pushed out of office.ason or another. so on the other hand in terms of motivation and turnout, that may be one of the things we fight. when our exit polls tell us is those who care about -- inflation and abortion are top of mind. those who care about democracy, half of them are democrats saying we are really worried about republican election denier's. the other half are republican election denier's saying voter fraud of the things. when people say democracy is on the ballot, for a lot of republican voters that mean something very different. it's not just dimensions to democrats about something that's been interesting in this election. >> stephen: the top so far, last time in 2020, the one saying to the administration there wasn't outside interference with this election. this time around you have other top election security expert saying we haven't actually seen any foreign or domestic shenanigans with our elections. yet 65% of republicans believe there were some -- didn't believe in the results. how do uac

. >> if liz cheney were announce a run for president, potentially as an independent, would you be open supporting trump back him over trump? >> i would go for trump first but yes, i like youngkin. >> not over trump? >> yes. trump is the leader right now. >> i'm the same way, i wouldn't do it over trump but i do like him. >> do you think a lot of republican voters would consider someone other than trump or does there need to be a place to go if something really unexpected happens in terms of support for trump between now and then? >> yeah. that seems to be the plan of many of the other contenders to be on stage. the hope is not a plan. you have to have a plan to win, not hope he gets indicted and goes to jail, none of them seems to have an alternative plan. if those voters become convinced that donald trump, as the nominee, would bring a catastrophic, and i mean this, a catastrophic loss to the republican party if he is the nominee and if they decide that's too big a price to pay -- remember, donald trump lost the house, he lost the senate twice, once willfully and he lost the white hou

liz cheney and adam kinzinger really exposed the truth when he was quiet. know what he thinks about adam kinzinger and liz cheney. is he despgrateful for what the did? because he's confirming absolutely everything that he's now brave enough to come up to the public and explain. so, yes, it is personal, poppy. >> yeah, i think that's a fair and important question, actually, to ask the former vice president. given what you just said about silence of vice president mike pence, for a time being. he has now become more outspoken, as you know, saying what trump did then was wrong, it was then wrong, it was wrong now, et cetera. but i thought that dana bash, my colleague and friend, asked him a really good question yesterday, when she said, do you wish you had spoken out sooner? that you'd been more vocal that trump was wrong on the election then? perhaps that would have prevented him from really solidifying this huge lead as the gop front-runner to be the president again. and i'll just ask you the same question. do you wish that former vice president had spoken o

and here, what jack smith has done is continue the work of people like liz cheney on the january six committee, people like judge luttig, very conservative court circuit judge and many others who are set, the rule of law simple on this stuff. the will of the people govern elections. what you did, donald trump, was interfered with the. you tried to prevent one of the most solemn things that happen in our country every four years, the counting the votes, so it's compelling, it's detailed, and while jack smith has to prove this beyond reasonable doubt, the most difficult standard in the law, right now, i have feeling like if you're jack smith, air feeling really good about this indictment. >> tim heaphy, jack smith is betting on the work that he did at the january six committee, what may be the most important work done by a congressional committee and congressional committee staff that you served on, because this is the first criminal referral that come of congress to the test is department about a president -- actually, it's about the kind of got a president. let's remember, all the co

but then the most meaningful of all was liz cheney, republican, former congresswoman from wyoming, was the vice of the january six committee, and she began speeches throughout 2022. so very recently and talking about what my book had had meant to her. and i was very moved and and excited and i thought, well, that's great. i'm sure i'll never meet her. and a few days after forming that thought, i got a call on my cell with a wyoming phone number, and it was congresswoman liz cheney and she said, i just want to thank you for writing the book and i want thank you, congresswoman. and she said, oh, please call liz. and i've now met her only, only once. but she's deeply about the civil war. we had a wonderful hour long meeting. she's to the university of virginia. i was talking about that with carrie janie last night, and she's going to add something to our understanding of the civil war. i feel confident and if any of you have read the january six, the report of the committee it's free and online and each of the leaders of the committee was given a chance write a preface and hers is all the

teseemed like she's going bit marginal character cannot imagine writing about liz cheney was the most dominant female republican or not produce the time of doing that spoke of those trajectory would go in opposite direction of the morning of generally six the very first day i began reporting my book i went to see thenc ceremonial function i saw there there's a maga crowd out there and got stuck in the building for a period of time. and the battle on the west terrorists between capitol police officers and the thousands of people coming and eventually i got out through the tunnels and came out to the east and watch people push their way in. what sticks in my mind is by and large you could see three groups of people. the very small but dangerous conspicuous by their paramilitary gear proud boys, three presenters and others worming their way through the crowd ultimately we now know through court documents really were the intended spear points. they had a plan for the vast majority of people who were there were people who are kind of garden variety trump goers. they came to washington not

and here, what jack smith has done is continue the work of people like liz cheney on the january six committee, people like judge luttig, very conservative court circuit judge and many others who are set, the rule of law simple on this stuff. the will of the people govern elections. what you did, donald trump, was interfered with the. you tried to prevent one of the most solemn things that happen in our country every four years, the counting the votes, so it's compelling, it's detailed, and while jack smith has to prove this beyond reasonable doubt, the most difficult standard in the law, right now, i have feeling like if you're jack smith, air feeling really good about this indictment. >> tim heaphy, jack smith is betting on the work that he did at the january six committee, what may be the most important work done by a congressional committee and congressional committee staff that you served on, because this is the first criminal referral that come of congress to the test is department about a president -- actually, it's about the kind of got a president. let's remember, all the co

. >> reporter: vice chair, liz cheney, one of two republicans on the committee, has spent the last year bucking her party, and helping investigate donald trump fc sophisticated multipart plan. the first piece the committee focused on where the lies. >> mail ballots are a very dangerous thing for this country, because they are cheaters. >> reporter: in the lead up to the election, donald trump had been talking about the possibility of widespread voter fraud by months. >> voter mail is fraught with fraud, people steal them out of mailboxes. >> looking back, it is clear he was laying the groundwork for this. >> this is a fraud on the american public. this is an embarrassment to our country. we were getting ready to win this election. frankly, we did win this election. >> reporter: trump may have been crying widespread fraud, but he had no proof. what the former president did have proof of, based on his own team's assessment of votes, was that he lost. in fact, made clear by the january 6th committee, which exposed to the world that so many trump aids, despite towing the trump line in publi

. >> liz cheney, just two republicans on the committee, has spent the last year looking her party and helping investigate donald trump's sophisticated multipart plan. the first piece the committee focused on were the lies. >> mail ballots are dangerous for this company country, because they are cheater's. >> donald trump had talked about the possibility of widespread voter fraud for months. >> people steal the amount of mailboxes. >> looking back, it is clear he was laying the groundwork for this. >> this is a fraud on the american public. this is an embarrassment to our country. we were getting ready to win this election. frankly, we did win this election. >> [ cheers ]. >> trumpet may have been crying widespread fraud, but he had no proof. what the former president did have proof of was that he lost. it was a fact made clear by the january 6 committee, which exposed to the world that so many donald trump aids, despite towing the line in public -- >> do you expect the president to concede >> that word is not in our capillary right now. >> they knew he was going to lose legitimately a

and we all know what happened to liz cheney. so we have won this debate inside the g.o.p., period end of story. now it's just a question of beating the democrats and attracting more independence, which we are already doing. how many americans today want our economy tied to china's? how many are ryan are getting mired in more wars. how many want illegal aliens flooding our country. how many want our government weaponized against political enemies? it's happening at a state level tonight. how many people think that hunter biden was just an ambitious international capitalist or that his father wasn't helping him? so who won the debate last night? the american people won the debate last night. because we showed, once again, that the republican party is moving in a new direction and that's the angle. joining me now charlie hurt opinion editor of "the washington times" and mollie hemingway editor and chief of the federal list. both are fox news contributors. i want to get your reaction to the debate in a moment. what we are seeing ton

because republicans, for the most part, with some exceptions, most notably former congresswoman liz cheneyer vice president dick cheney, but most republicans have stood with the president. the republican party today is more a cult than a normal political party. republicans are with donald trump no matter what, and republicans in congress are also with him no matter what. there are many things that could have already been done, very simply, to remove this possibility, the constitution could be amended, or because that is difficult but it could be done. the simplest thing that should have been done was afterjanuary sixth, donald trump should have been removed from office, impeached and disqualified from running. the reason he wasn't, only a handful of republicans in the senate voted to take the necessary action and left us in a really difficult and surreal position of having to consider a possibility that a man facing trial, even a possibly convicted felon with authoritarian tendencies, might sell him —— might save himself from the election. the republicans _ from the election. the republica

not done for the most part and when they do the get kicked out of the party, like someone like liz cheneyage like will hurd who's running for president, than the republicans just don't do what they need to be doing so the battle in the courtroom is one thing, but the real battle is going to take place in the republican party. so far donald trump dominates that battle. for so far donald trump dominates that battle-— that battle. for the us allies in this part _ that battle. for the us allies in this part of _ that battle. for the us allies in this part of the _ that battle. for the us allies in this part of the world, - that battle. for the us alliesj in this part of the world, like japan, south korea and so on, they rely on the stability of they rely on the stability of the united states they had to play a very tricky balancing act when mr trump left the white house and mr biden came to office. this kind of legal battles that are taking place, we have not really heard much from even the years have we? —— asian leaders. we from even the years have we? -- asian leaders.— asian leaders. we h

the ultimate political price, they lost their election campaigns, people like liz cheney and spoke outry six committee. she was in the primary and she lost her seat in the house of representatives because of it and she was a member of the republican leadership team going into this so even the mightiest republicans, if they make a misstep and move against donald trump, can risk the ire of the base. that is something that a lot of republican officeholders, even the ones running for president or trying to challenge donald trump for the presidential nomination, that something in the back of their head, a calculus they can not entirely put aside because they know they are going to have to deal with the consequences if their criticism becomes too sharp stop with just been handed the indictment year. figs just been handed the indictment ear. �* , just been handed the indictment ear. ~ , ., , year. as we mentioned, rudy giuliani is _ year. as we mentioned, rudy giuliani is on _ year. as we mentioned, rudy giuliani is on the _ year. as we mentioned, rudy giuliani is on the list, - year. as we me

i would like to see liz cheney as president. she might straighten up this publican party.g is, i have never thought about anybody throwing over the government. i have been in the service. i have seen it in other countries. but not in this country. and the republicans and trump better wake up. this thing is going down the drain. host: you are the second when this half hour mention they would support liz cheney. why is that? caller: because she has done a terrific job on that counsel about getting rid of trump and everything he has done. just overthrowing, with the coup, that is all it is. this guy has got powers that you would not believe. host: more from hawaii, a senator from hawaii was on state of the union on cnn yesterday. another article and comments about aid to hawaii, to maui in particular. here is what the senator said on state of the union. >> as you know, fema and other government agencies are there. my colleague is reporting from maui and he is hearing from people who are still desperate for more help from the government. people wondering where is the navy, the

the room account and an unsparing one at that about how the republicans went from the party of liz cheneyparty of marjorie taylor greene. david corn is a veteran washington and political commentator, winner of the 2012 george polk award, previously the washington editor of the magazine. now the washington bureau chief for mother. he is the coauthor or author, four new york times best sellers, including the number one bestseller russian roulette. today, we will be discussing his latest book, american psychosis a historical investigation of the republican party went crazy. how how not, if. it's love, bias, battle and love this year. yeah, we'll get to you. tim conway, fueled by both sides. i'm a little bit confused. both sides. where did they come up with. i don't know. all right. msnbc's rachel maddow said of this book, i think this is a great review. she says corn is a great journalist. i love the way he thinks. i love the way he writes. i'm so glad he has done a super modern history of the right. we just need smart, digestible history about this stuff right now. america psychosis rachel

. >> to me it suggests that liz cheney loaned him some of her steel in her spine.ill know what impact it would have had if he'd said that months and months ago, years ago now. >> at the time, yeah. >> thank you for being here at the table with us. it's a pleasure. there's much more to come on this extraordinary day of news on the threat made to one of the federal judges in the trump january 6th case. congressman adam schiff will be here. don't go anywhere today. here don't go anywhere today. safelite came right to us, and we could see exactly when they'd arrive with a replacement we could trust. that's service the way we want it. >> singers: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace. ♪ (josh allen) is this your plan to watch the game today? (hero fan) i have to watch my neighbors' nfl sunday ticket. (josh allen) it's not your best plan. but you know what is? myplan from verizon. (vo) for a limited time get nfl sunday ticket from youtubetv on us. a $449 value. plus, get a free samsung galaxy z flip5. only on verizon. (ambience of room, birds, scrolling content on phone) y

i can disagree with liz cheney because we agree to the conditions that allow us to disagree. folk who are signing up with him, they actually erode the background conditions for their to be substantive debate about where we move forward. when i look at chris christie, when i look at liz cheney, when i look atnikki haley, i see policies, i get worried, but i can disagree without worrying the democracy will fall apart. some of these people have gone so far that they are, as frank said, they are decidedly anti-constitutional in the way they argue their position. it's deeply worrisome. >> that's brilliant. i'm going to steal this. i have been grappling -- knowing last night was coming -- with this frame and that's why we are ian on and had the democracy conversation. you want to reach across the set and arm wrestle over dumb policy ideas with the person in the other party. but you can't even muster the enthusiasm to defend an idea when the other side wants to burn it all down. that's sort of the despair and pull of watching these individuals on the stage. you couldn't imagine a po

it only got that way because liz cheney had to deal with real politics.ooted, as everyone remembers, from leadership, not for a mistake, not for a personal scandal. she was booted because as the committee's investigator just reminded us, counsel, because they were fact finding. i'm curious, to take us all the way back, what are your lessons here, in what was not automatic, the multiple sort of legislative and political steps and moves that democratic leaders and chiefly then speaker pelosi made? >> i can't remember a more consequential committee hearing in my lifetime. i think you have to go back to watergate to think about a committee hearing that was as important as january 6th. and like watergate, what the hearing did is it changed the narrative. watergate was a bungled burglary and then by the end of it, it was a cancer growing on the presidency. january 6th was being presented by a lot of people as basically a rally where a few people kind of got out of control. nothing more, nothing more to see there. what the january 6th committee did is it changed

in order to do that, as liz cheney said at the end of that hearing, we have presented to you voices ofters, the people that worked for him, the people that believed in him, and they are confessing that they found this behavior intolerable. so matthews and pottinger were there to do that. they were there until that day and the attempted coup hoops and that's too much for them. and so, in that way, i think they lend credibility to the idea that, outside of donald trump himself, there was essentially unanimity among the people that were loyal to him that what had happened was indefensible and that his conduct on that day was indefensible. >> stephen: who do you think comes off worse? who do you think around him looks the worst. >> meadows. >> stephen: he looks completely ineffectual and spineless. [laughter] >> yes, and this by czar cipher -- partly because meadows hasn't given his testimony. a lot of it is people trying to wash a little bit of what's left of reputation, they say, i said we can't do this. meadows hasn't be there. all we know is he's scrolling his phone as the country is b

adam kinzinger and liz cheney quite famously. be an adversarial process, do you think that that is good? how do you conceive of the import of this trial, and also the president mounting a defense? >> of course, all of this is within the american rule of law. our system of justice. donald trump starts off with the presumption of innocence. he has every right to due process. he's got a judge, judge chutkan who was herself a public defender and a criminal defense lawyer who is extremely attentive to the rights of criminal defendants, and also understands that our constitution has at least six different provisions that explicitly oppose insurrection, and attempts to overthrow our government. she's the perfect judge for this case. this is where the case ultimately belongs. we played a very important purpose in terms of public education about what happened to us. it takes a village, a nationwide village to deal with an attack like what we saw on january 6th. >> do you think the average voter, american understands how close it all came?

the stage in terms of resume but when he called january 6 insurrection and coopted the lapping of liz cheney and other democrats, that was a very unfortunate move on his part to call it that. it was not an insurrection. a protest that became a riot, yeah. horrible? yeah. insurrection? not a chance. david: mike huck by, great to see you -- huckabee, great to see you and givous best to sarah. thank you for being here. appreciate it. >> thanks. david: second primary republican debate is september 27 and here on fox business. don't miss it. check the markets and they are doing quite well today all though again they've lost a little bit from their high. the dow is down 173 right now. i say down two, it is still in the plus category but at 1 # 3 and earlier it was 125250 on the plus side. 250 on the plus side. jason katz joining me now. jason, how much is the fed going to influence this market going forward? >> david, the fed doesn't want to snatch defeat in the jaws of victory. they might have just pulled off this soft landing. whether they were conscious of it or not, they might have threaded th

we heard from liz cheney about the degree to which this was not just happen stance and not just chaos, it was a concerted effort with many conspiricists coming up with various ways to try to overturn the results of a free and fair election. >> from state to state to state, from pennsylvania and beyond. the climax of course is what the former president did with his then vice president. yes, you're absolutely right. the january 6th committee plowed a lot of this ground for the special much investigator and mike pence. he did speak to the special counsel are in and about, what happened between donald trump and mike pence. in conversation after conversation including a christmas call saying, mike, you've got to do this pushing the vais president -- the then vice president to overturn the election and it said some of the quotes in here were from mike pence's contemporaneous notes that he took at the time. it's really, really stunning. then it turns the corner to the then president not having the sway with mike pence in private and taking it public, and we all know what happened then. just

this is somebody who, in the january 6th committee, from liz cheney, to adam kinzinger, and beyond, itbout an ongoing threat. there's an election right around the corner. he's saying this is a politicization of what's happening. are you buying that based on your experience of what you saw with the january 6th committee? >> a quote that stood out to me for the members, laws are just words on paper, unless those that are elected carry them out and enforce them and follow them. that's what the investigation has been about. making sure that the elected officials enforce and follow the laws on the books. that's the key to democracy. >> that's the marching orders of the head executive branch of government, right, to enforce the laws. march 4th is one of the many case he has, including civil. we'll talk about that. when you look at the references made to the prosecution. frankly, did i read he had about $7 million the was able to fund raise off of the indictments? >> off of the photograph. >> the photograph alone. >> that crazy photo. >> that's telling for me. is it you, as well, how this mig

answering this question committee member liz cheney posed a year ago. >> understanding what it meansidence are there and they decide not to prosecute, how do we then call ourselves a nation of laws? >> our healthy nation of laws is where we start the hour with some of our most favorite reporters and friends. from "the new york times" congressional reporter is here. also joining us former league investigator for the january 6th committee tim heafy. i give you the floor. i know it's been 24 hours since this has been out there. i think people have had enough time to sift through the committee's report and what we've learned. and whereas you said all along jack smith would be able to punch through those privileges and go even farcter. what is your feeling today having gone through all this? >> you know, it's a swirl, candidly, nicolle. part of me feels somewhat vindicated. it is yet another affirmation that the fact that the select committee found are credible, that the story we're able to piece together through our investigation has stood up. jack smith has only made that story stronger

a statement from mccarthy's number three, elise stefanik, who you'll remember actually replaced liz cheneye chair of the january 6th committee that spent a year and a half in investigating the attack on the capitol and the former president's role in it. she said, quote, today's sham indictment of donald trump is yet another disparate attempt to distract attention away from the mounting evidence of joe biden's direct involvement in his family's illegal influence peddling scheme. this is somebody who has the ear of the former president and somebody to watch as speaker mccarthy possibly continues moving in the direction of opening an impeachment inquiry into the current president, perhaps, to appease members of the hard right and the former president himself. >> mike, president biden, we know, is on summer vacation. he's largely avoided talking about trump's legal troubles. what is the white house strategy there? >> well, ana, very quickly as news of this indictment came down last night, we got no comments, both from the white house, referring questions to the justice department as well as bi

liz cheney, while she was still in congress had to go around with the security guard, with a securitym, that she paid out with her own money all around wyoming. i mean, republicans are not just intimidated. republican politicians are not just intimidated by voters at the ballot box, but they are intimidated by these people who they know have weapons. >> is there anyone with the moral authority to talk -- the republican party writ large, the voters down? >> no. i don't think so at this point. i don't think -- i think anyone who crosses trump, who contradicts him, is then castigated. and treated as, oh, he's just another liberal. he's pro biden. everything is black and white in that regard. and it's terrifying. >> it is terrifying. jim cavanaugh, george conway, thank you both. we'll figure this out, i hope. >>> up next on "the reidout" trump lashes out fulton county fani willis as she prepares to announce indictments as early as next week potentially. "the reidout" continues after this. week potentially. "the reidout" continues after this who are our ancestors? i know we have them. when

laughter ] i don't want to be overdramatic here, but we need a congressional investigation into this liz cheney to work this into the next january 6th hearing, unless you think i'm being silly. remember, they did do an entire segment at the hearing about how rudy was drunk on election night. >> was there anyone in that conversation who, in your observation, had had too much to drink? >> um, rudy giuliani [ light laughter ] >> seth: "and how did you know that rudy was at the white house that night?" "uh, there was police tape on one of the bathroom doors. [ laughter ] also this mask isn't because of covid. [ laughter ] now as much as i'd love to spend the rest of the show on this story, and believe me, we thought about going live tonight to cover it, but the network did not respond to our many emails [ light laughter ] there are, i guess, some other less important stories in news for example, the investigation into all those top secret documents trump stole from the white house and stashed in the basement of his palm beach resort slash luxury morgue and you can rest assured -- you can rest assur

so that one house republican liz cheney was not going to vote for donald trump to be the president.gh it didn't make sense, but it was also -- the purpose of it all along was really -- it was really to say -- have pence just reject them out of hand. this has become a pr move to say all we were trying to do was get him to send it back to the states. there is no process for doing that and a the purpose all along was to say that would push it back to the house of representatives. >> i need to ask you obviously one central question in this case is did donald trump know the claims of fraud that he was pushing were lies. did he know that he legitimately lost the election? do you think he did? >> i know that his campaign gave him briefings that went through what the returns were and explained to him where there were examples of fraud that they were insignificant and would not have made a material difference to the election. whether or not he believed what his campaign told him or whether he chose to believe what some of the crazy lawyers were advising him, i don't know his state of mind, k

you are attacking my guy for my party, unless i'm vehemently anti-trump like adam kinzinger or liz cheney, maybe i'm persuaded. >> ainsley: mike pence says i hope you participates. i like what the effect said. he has every right not to participate. he doesn't want to he doesn't have to. >> steve: what you will see as you will see eight candidates. you will wind up picking a favorite. doc i won. that guy won. chris christie will do what he will do. he will remind people about donald trump and the laws he allegedly broke. that's what he's all about. the big question is, and we talked about this, i bet two weeks after the debate the polling will be all different because -- and that's to the parallel of former president donald trump not showing up. people will have a favorite. don't ron desantis could do great or tim scott could do great. they could all do great. and trump will be out in bedminster saying i wish i would've shown up. >> brian: it would be great if it gets close and then trump has to get back in. >> ainsley: he's also being indicted for time spirit he might not want to get on s

highlight a stirring rebuke of trump and his inaction during the insurrection from congresswoman liz cheney. at the final public hearing of the january 6th select committee. >> no man who would behave that way at that moment in time can ever serve in any position of authority in our nation again. he is unfit for any office. >> joining me now is former florida congresswoman stephanie murphy. also the former member of the january 6th elect committee. charles coleman junior, msnbc legal analysis towards attorney and former brooklyn prosecutor. and douglas brinkley, presidential historian and professor of history at rice university. thank you all very much for coming to the sunday show. douglas, let me start with you. talk about this inflection point in history that we are in. especially on this day. the 58th anniversary of the signing into law of the voting rights act? >> there is nothing more sacred in the united states and the right to vote and one of the biggest moments in my lifetime as the voting rights act. i would predict it's going to sell, will alabama, varied marches way to educate a

like saying pee wee is the central figure in the playhouse. [ laughter ] of course he's the -- liz cheney that his testimony will be under oath. as if that means anything. typically when donald trump takes an oath, it ends in divorce. [ laughter ] these hearings have been televised. it's interesting. because if he does testify, trump's almost certainly going to say something incriminating. so the question is, does he want to be on tv more than he doesn't want to go to jail? i'm going with tv. [ laughter ] [ cheers and applause ] trump is angry at fox news. he wrote yesterday on on his dumb website -- fox news treats “trump” every bit as badly as they did in 2015 -- him referring to himself in all caps, in air quotes, is new. “i beat crooked hillary clinton, and then beat biden by much more. fox is afraid to say what really happened. in that farce of an election, it was rigged and stollen.” that's "stolen," i guess, one "l" for each election he lost. [ laughter ] get tough, republicans. trump is particularly salty this week because hillary clinton, is demanding he pay her legal fees, becau

and i just want to commend the january 6th committee, the house committee, benny thompson and liz cheney and all the members of the committee and the staff and the work they did. they made a foundation of facts, about facts and the law, and made a criminal referral to the justice department. that was in december, the end of last year, 2022. we didn't know what we couldn't know. it wasn't our role to know what the justice department would do, if anything. so when it became clear that there would be criminal charges made, it's interesting to see how similar they are to some of the charges recommended by the january 6th committee. and i commend, again, the committee. i'm so proud of them, their courage, their bravery, and the courage really of all of those who are making the case now. of course, the former president is innocent until proven guilty. no one is above the law, and the assault that they are making on the rule of law in the country is really a sad thing. i'm sure it would bring tears to the eyes of our founders. >> the current speaker of the house, your successor, republican cong

if nancy pelosi had not swapped out jim jordan for liz cheney, would we be here? >> it would've been a very different investigation, no question. the committee as originally conceived, a ten member bipartisan with five republicans five democrats, chose a white democrat -- who would've include jim jordan, very partisan, a little bit of food fight, it would've been a partisan battle from the beginning. and instead what you had was james's committee was bipartisan committee. not equal numbered, only to republicans, but there were republicans on there. in which they actually seemed interested in trying to figure out what happened. what were the facts? what was this going to tell them rather than being a fight among themselves it was an inquiry to determine the facts of the situation. you're right. if you read this 45-page indictment and pay attention to the hearings last year, you'll find a lot that is familiar. katie talked about this in the last hour. a lot of the facts here that were already uncovered by the january six committee. so they lay the groundwork, if you

they spread it out like the last season of "better call saul." [ laughter ] but liz cheney and the gangre back tomorrow. they are expected to present new evidence that trump knew there would be violence in advance of the insurrection. the committee has emails from the secret service that will prove he was well aware of what was happening and was going to happen, despite his lies to the contrary. trump knew and purposefully did nothing about it. they told him his supporters were revolting and he said, "no, they always smell that way." [ rim shot ] [ laughter ] thank you. you know, sometimes the classics just work. trump was said to be furious the secret service wouldn't let him go to the capitol himself. chocolate mousse-illini wanted to be there. [ laughter ] to lead his army of the dumb, but the secret service pulled a melania and ignored him. [ laughter ] and of course, whatever the new evidence may be, it is not likely to move the needle on the right. they don't want to look at the evidence. they could have trump on video saying, "i hereby order my mob to invade the capitol, kill mik

there may be a place for him at liz cheney's house for dinner, or on mitt romney's christmas card liston. >> yeah, listen. i actually think that if brian kemp is sort of a model for how republicans could act here. the secretary of states in every state -- election officials. they are more republican secretary of state's in 2020 than there were democrats. not one of the said there was any problem with the elections in their states. so, this is just absurd. and calling it a revenge -- i don't understand this. biden won. what sort of revenge would it be? and this is just a continuation of an attack on american institutions that the republican party started when they brought into trump in 2016. and the end result of this is they really want to push toward an authoritarian rule instead of democracy, because they see democracy now as a problem. democracy is not selecting them. therefore, democracy must -- therefore, we must go to a different system. >> conor, all these republicans who keep saying, this is the weaponization of our government and the department of justice, who are saying they

of ben and jerry. [ laughter ] meanwhile, the other big political story is that representative liz cheneyon the january 6th committee, and has been outspoken about trump's defeat in the election, lost her primary race to a challenger that he endorsed trump was so excited he threw a ticker tape parade made out of classified documents. [ laughter ] "celebrate good times, come on." [ laughter ] in her concession speech, cheney promised to do whatever it takes to ensure that donald trump is never again anywhere near the oval office. [ cheers and applause so, she's installing a ramp. [ laughter ] "these shoes are very slippery." you guys see this? today, cdc director, rochelle walensky, said that the agency didn't respond quickly enough to the covid pandemic, and called for a a reorganization yeah, the cdc said that they didn't responded quickly enough to the pandemic. they might be on to something because everyone was like, "sorry, which of the current pandemics are you referring to?" [ laughter ] ♪ ♪ we're cool for the summer ♪ guys, you know what that means it is time for my amazing co-host

>> brian: to me, i didn't real memorize the january 6th report by congress led by liz cheney this seemsly like it. you could have done this a long time ago. what's new about it i'm not sure. why jack smith the guy spends his free time at the hague, comes back here at the another major indictment and acts like first time on camera. why was he so nervous in delivering. this it seems like he was unsure of what he was saying. we back law enforcement what they had to deal with that day we get that it's like going after 9/11. we understand how brave the firefighters were. what does this have to do with other things that are involved in this indictment? that was just astounded that he sounded so much like a politician and somebody who just dislikes the guy rather than the guy who is indicting a guy. >> steve: see, i watched and it i thought it was very somber and sober. it's a crazy time in our american history where this guy was saying, look, i have got the proof that the president of the united states. >> brian: i wouldn't say he was smiling. i'm just saying that he was nervous about his del

this is somebody who in the january 6th committee, from liz cheney to adam kinzinger, 80 raskin, andwas about an ongoing threat. there is an election, as we know with democracy, that's right around the corner. the fact that he is saying, look, this is a politicization of what is happening. are you buying that based on your experience of what you saw with the january 6th committee? >> aquino is today from the members of kinzinger and miss cheney, others saying that laws are just words on paper in less than those who are elected carrying the mountain and force, them and follow them, right? as with so investigation is been about, making sure that our elected officials actually enforce the laws that are on the books, because that is a key to our democracy. >> it's also the actual marching corners of the head executive branch of government, right? who endorsed the laws. think about, this march 4th is but many of the cases that he has. including several, we are gonna talk more about that. but when you look at the references that are being made to the prosecution, and frankly that i read th

trump is looking to run for office but they're serious democracy questions here which, is something liz cheneyn consist coexist of a constitutional margin. >> the president who is attempting to unravel the foundations of our constitutional republic. we have to choose because republicans cannot both be loyal to donald trump and loyal to the constitution. >> with that in mind we are all here but we are also joined by ruth ben-ghiat, professor at nyu, author of strongmen, mussolini to the president. welcome to the discussion. >> thank you. >> we talk so much about law and even if it wasn't a we are in a society even wasn't a table of lawyers that is steeped in law. you've written up beyond that lens, there are issues that what is a political process that is dogged by people would undermine the law or democracy itself? >> layers are really important now that autocrats come to power through elections a lot of the time. you have to have lawyers and other bureaucrats working really hard to undermine and subvert democratic institutions in processes. then if they get to power you have lawyers involved

liz cheney got a shoutout.y much here in the mix, and so this is a, you know, divided republican party, yet one, right now, the polling would suggest is not evenly divided but instead, a greater share of it is very much in donald trump's camp. i want to let you hear when i ask these folks, whether anybody besides donald trump had a shot in this, take a listen. >> do any of you think that somebody not named donald trump has a chance to win the iowa caucus this next year? >> yes, i do. >> why? >> personally, i think that a lot of people that are in my shoes that want someone other than donald trump aren't as vocal as the donald trump supporters, and so i think when it comes time to go in there and actually, i think then we'll see what really is going on. >> it's a possibility that remains, but it seems to be diminishing. >> i think he has an excellent chance of winning in the general election. i think there will be a lot of support. i'm around a lot of people that are trump supporters. >> why do you think he has