it was called lloyd benson, the short history of lloyd benson's dealings with special interest groups. was the man is known for broke will -- for pro-quote quickness. in texas that so people do business. that's $50 online. [laughter] that's not my shortest poem. my shortest poem is the political societal and philosophical implications of the o.j. simpson trial. that's the time. titles don't count. and the whole poem is, oj, oy vey. [laughter] now, maybe anybody shortest poem. >> you ever hear from politicians that say you're being too hard on me? >> no. i never have, and i've had this sort of nightmare which i have during the day. one of the reasons i don't hear from them, they won't even admit they read the stuff, but also i don't run into him because i live in new york and most of them are in washington. but i start having of 10 or 12 years ago, i started having this sort of daytime nightmare that i went to a dinner party in new york, and all of them were there. and in my nightmare i a ride sort of early because i found a great parking spot. [laughter] and although the passionate th

. >> guest: lloyd benson was ill, and i was not able to talk to him, but this was over a 20-year period. anyway, talked to them one-on-one about their debate experiences. and what george h.w. bush said to me, i asked him, i said, hey, tell me about the watch thing. and he said, well, he said, yeah, yeah, yeah, i looked at my watch. big deal. that means i'm not qualified to be president of the united states? you look at your watch on television, and you're not qualified to be president of the united states? and i said, you know, a follow up this was for television, for a documentary, and i said -- the it's cameras were running, and i said, well, mr. president, some people said you wanted to know when the thing was going to be over, and he said, you're right, i wanted to know when this damn thing was going to be over. and he said, you can put that in your documentary. and i said, mr. president, we just did. [laughter] >> host: ralph in chicago, you're on with jim lehrer, we're talking about presidential debates. mr. lehrer's most recent book, "tension city." >> caller: yes, please, thanks