lockhart road." hello and welcome to dateline extra. i'm craig melvin. david came home one evening to find his entire world turned upside down. what happened in the family garage was both a tragedy and a mystery. at the crime scene, police uncovered clues that would lead them on a long road to justice. there were two potential killers. but only one truth. here is dennis murphy. >> reporter: such an awful crime. the wife. the little boy and girl. >> my kids are dead. >> reporter: shot at point blank range. >> i was just dumbfounded. i was shocked, what i saw. >> reporter: how to comprehend it? >> i said, "what?" "what are you, what are you talking about?" "what are you saying?" >> reporter: the husband had an alibi. >> could he have slipped away for, say, ten minutes? >> he could've done anything. but he didn't. >> reporter: 13 years. three trials, appeals, reversals. and changing stories. >> the big picture here, charles, for a lot of people is it sounds like a crock. it doesn't pass the sniff test.

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. >> on lockhart road, the sound of silence. homicide investigation began and dave's friend and former colleague, the indiana police state officer would be on the front line. >> coming up, something strange at the crime scene. kim's shoes placed neatly on top. >> what does that mean? when "dateline" continues. en "d. a lifetime appointment. but members of congress, and the corporations who've bought our democracy hate term limits. too bad. i'm tom steyer and i approve this message because the only way we get universal healthcare, address climate change and make our economy more fair is to change business as usual in washington. i've always loved and i'm still going for my best, even though i live with a higher risk of stroke due to afib not caused by a heart valve problem. so if there's a better treatment than warfarin, i'll go for that. eliquis. eliquis is proven to reduce stroke risk better than warfarin. plus has significantly less major bleeding than warfarin. eliquis is fda-approved and has both. what's next? sharing my roo

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joining us now, we have cnn justice correspondent laura jarrett and joe lockhart.esident clinton's press secretary during impeachment. well, these are interesting. these add a new wrinkle to what we've already known. here's the timeline. at 9:03 a.m., president trump had the beginning of the call with zelensky. an hour and a half later, the u.s. budget ordered the hold on ukraine aid. september 9th, congress notified of whistle-blower complaint. september 11th, the aid is released. as john was pointing out during the break, president trump asked zelensky for this favor, applied pressure that he'd sure like this favor done. it would really help. and then it was top of mind and said while, at it, freeze the aid until the favor's done. >> i think the biggest issue in this entire impeachment inquiry has been intent. that's what this email, i think, speaks to. what was the president's intent? and if it was a perfect call as he used to say, then why is the omb telling the pentagon an hour and a half later, keep this closely held. it's a sensitive nature. and we already k

se cupp, joe lockhart. show is at the top of the hour. >>> as impeachment engulfs the white house, president trump is not there today, he is attending today's army navy game in philadelphia. last hour, met with players in their locker rooms, did the coin toss. cnn's sarah westwood is there for us. sarah? >> reporter: well, ana, perhaps it was a welcome distraction coming to the army, navy game, he received a warm welcome from the audience. many people attending the game are current, former, future military service members. a really warm reception for the president here. this is his third time attending the army, navy game, came here last year, came once in 2016 when he was president-elect. he is the tenth president to come to the matchup. it is sort of a tradition at this point. and the president as you mention went to the army locker room, to the navy locker room on his arrival, rallied players, and touted new reform from the pentagon that would allow graduates of military service academies to play sports

we're back with kaitlan collins and joe lockhart.hat can you say about the president -- i mean, debbie dingell is still grieving. >> do we have her statement? >> i'm sure we do. she says, mr. president, let's set politics aside. my president earned all his accolades. i'm preparing for my first holiday season without the man i love. you brought me down in a way you can never imagine and your hurtful words just made my healing much harder. i think there's another point we need to make. none of that was true, what he said. and one of our researchers who has to count the president's lies says that one tell is when the president uses the referencreferencterm sir. congress decided to lower the flags. that wasn't true, what he said. >> there's just so many levels of it. one of it is how he looks at politics as transactional. like he gave her something and he was shocked she didn't return the honors on her husband with a vote with him on impeachment. shocked. secondly it shows how little he knows about mish politics. john dingell was a hero

joe lockhart, when you see this article, this extraordinary detail develop over the christmas holidaye something a little different here. you see people trying to get their stories straight. >> yeah. or at least get their story out first. i think it's a reflection of both great reporting by "the new york times," but also a sense that this idea of witnesses is becoming more real. and if this -- if it is becoming more real, then a lot of different parties want to make sure that their version gets out first. i think you can see this a little bit here in the story where the national security team is very aggressive in this story about saying, hey, we were the good guys here. we were trying to push mulvaney and omb. you see some internals where the career guys get pushed aside for the political appointees. you see people putting the lawyers front and center by this sort of convoluted idea of how can we develop a legal theory for countermanding congress. and then you see, you know, someone acting on behalf of mick mulvaney saying mick always left the meetings when rudy was there. so i think

joining us now, joe lockhart. he was president clinton's former press secretary, of course. and abby phillip. great to have you both. abby, let's begin with you as you look at murkowski. there's a lot of centrist independent republicans who have made noise about voting against president trump in the past who don't actually follow through when the hard votes are taken. does that seem like this to you? or might this be the beginning of a break? >> i do think that murkowski has a track record of following through on her complaints. brett kavanaugh being one example against some significant republican, you know, opposition to trying to stop his -- she also has stood up in other areas. voting against betsy devos. one of the few republicans to do that too. she does have a track record of standing by her word. the question is based on the totality of what she said, does it seem like she actually will say to mitch mcconnell, i want the trial to look this way. i want it to have these characteristics. i'm not sure she will. i think she'll say she's not concerned about that kind of rhe

back with us joe lockhart and elie honig. and alisyn camerota also. in ukraine meeting with some of the same people. this impeachment investigation is largely in part due to rudy giuliani messing around with ukrainians trying to get them to investigate joe biden. the fact he is there on the eve of impeachment shows you that perhaps he's not cowed by this. that he just doesn't care. >> he's not easily deterred. my mind goes back to the piece of testimony from sondland when he said everyone was in the loop. so many different people were involved in this. maybe it's part of his strategy. maybe his strategy is i keep on doing it and don't blimpg, then it will seem like nothing's wrong. >> he's also, i guess looking for more evidence or propaganda depending upon which side you're on. i mean, reportedly, he's there with oan. that's described as a propaganda network. they run baseless conspiracy theories. but they're getting a lot of viewers. he's doing something sort of special with them. in the brazenness and going back is one of the angles of this. >> my

>> one of the things i heard this morning in interview with jill lockhart, the former press secretary saying he thought the big difference between then and now, is that then during clnt impeachment there were minorities who were condemning his behavior. saying it doesn't rise to impeachment but condemning his behavior and even his attorney on the floor of the senate during the trial condemned his behavior, whereas now according to joe lockhart, very few republicans are doing that and in his view they're not even taking it seriously. what do you think? do you agree? >> well that is the right thing to do. is to say this behavior is bad doesn't rise to the point of impeachment but they have thus far declined to make a substantive argument. it has been all process and the idea of calling the whistle-blower, i don't get it because it is a moot point and if you shoot the messenger, the messenger is trump because he gave the transcript out. and whether this arises to removable and the democrats have a long way to go to convince swing state voters that is the case and the republican party thi

we're back now with joe lockhart and laura. think that analysis from bill barr, the clinical way of describing it is, duh. he's observing what a clear to so many people. >> sure. and the mayor -- former mayor is under criminal investigation in the southern district of new york. his associates have been charged with campaign finance violations. we don't know the full scope of the investigation. it's in the early stages. but we know there's a counterintelligence aspect to it. and so i think the attorney general is counseling the president. look, you want to be careful here. and we know that barr was not happy that he was mentioned on that july 25th phone call. he was not happy to be in the same breath as rudy giuliani. and so that i think is where you see barr's sort of caution coming from. >> i'm not sure the president is listening to that advice since this weekend he was talking in quite optimistic terms about what rudy giuliani is going to unearth from his latest trip to ukraine. and -- i mean, the thing is that we know that r

joe lockhart, the "new york times" story yesterday is pretty remarkable here, right?t revealed something that even the house impeachment investigation could not uncover, and that is that the president's three senior most national security advisers, pompeo, bolton, and mark esper, the defense secretary went directly to the president and tried to lobby him directly to release this aid to ukraine. for one, that shows they knew it was the president who made that decision there, but i wonder how does the gop resist in light of this a call for witnesses like bolton, pompeo, esper to address these questions, to address their intersectiactions with th president over this decision? >> i think you put your finger on it. i think we knew from the witnesses in the house that there was this effort in the administration to try to move the president, try to get him to release the aid, but what is significant about this, there is a critical meeting in the oval office that no one knew about. despite the work of all these investigators, all these witnesses, we have not gotten to the cor

germany of 2017 having planted in the president's head it was ukraine. >> bianna golodryga, joe lockhart have you here. >>> we have a brand new poll with new data released moments ago. this time it shows how democrats stack up against president trump. there has been some significant movement on this front. we'll tell you what it is next. can you heal dry skin in a day? aveeno® with prebiotic triple oat complex balances skin's microbiome. so skin looks like this and you feel like this. aveeno® skin relief. get skin healthy™ >>> all right. breaking news. cnn has a brand new poll out. three minutes ago we released it. it shows where the democratic candidates stand against president donald trump in a potential 2020 race. harry enten is here to tell us how those democrats are doing. and there's been some movement. >> there has definitely been some movement. so take a look here. this is our new poll right now, folks. our new poll. what do we see. we see joe biden up by five points. 49 to 44. sanders up 49 from 45. warren up just a point. and pete buttigieg down a point but within the margin of

back with us, joe lockhart and jennifer rodgers. let's put up some of these dates.hich is the day marie yovanovitch was recalled from njoku. that's not that date. but the 24th which is another date -- >> there were a flurry of phone calls. >> rudy giuliani talking to a number from omb. could that have been mick mulvaney? rudy giuliani talking to the white house six times. rudy giuliani talking to lev parnas, his associate who's been indicted. and this mysterious number one which we'll get to in a minute. as a legal matter here, jennifer, what do these phone records show you in. >> well, this was a conspiracy. all of these people who were doing this smear campaign on yovanovitch, withholding the aid, it was a bribery and extortion conspiracy. people who talk a lot during a conspiracy are often involved in the conspiracy. if you're looking at this, it's can we put thus person who was previously outside or questionable like devin nunes inside the conspiracy? >> here's devin nunes' own call log. the ones that have been put into the report. four times on april 1th he tal

joining us, dana bash, joe lockhart, and cnn global affairs analyst bianna golodryga. great to have you all on this christmas eve. let's start with impeachment and then move to rudy. >> i'm going to have a lozenge while we talk. >> if you had lozenge on your bingo card. have another cup of coffee. joe, who would have thought that we'd be looking back on the clinton impeachment as a gold standard of civility and bipartisanship. but that is where we are. mitch mcconnell saying that he will follow the rules as they were done then. let's take a listen to what he is saying and then have you tra translate it for us into truth. >> we haven't ruled out witnesses. we've said let's handle this case just like we did with president clinton. fair is fair. >> every other impeachment has had witnesses. it's not unusual to have witnesses in a trial. >> okay, joe. what's he talking about. what's that clinton-era standard that we need to return to? >> we should remember that trent lott and tom daschle did get together and got rules and got a 100-0 vote. imagine today getting a 100-0 vot

joe lockhart and abby phillip are back with us to discuss this.ident no surprise tweeted congratulating boris johnson on his victory ov overnight. but it's his tweets in 2016 after the brexit vote where he said many people are equating brexit and what is going on in great britain with what is happening in the u.s. so he sort of foreshadowed what the 2016 election would entail and the outcome of that. is this also a foreshadowing of what we could expect in 2020 if the candidate on the democratic side is a moderate -- is a progressive in. >> i think there was some foreshadowing in 2016 because it was similar to the politics of grievance going on. that's what brought them to the brink of brexit. i think it's a little bit different this time. i think if you look at the exit polls, the exit poll i saw, the uk does not want to leave the european union. this is about the idea that candidates mattered. both from taking his party too far to the left, tolerating anti-semitism within the labor party. not trying to root it out. you know, only he knows. so pol

back with us, david gregory, abby phillip, and joe lockhart.hat multiple times this morning, david, i can't get over it. to me it appears to be the kind of thing that will just drive the president crazy. >> yeah, well, look, i think christopher wray has been a real institutionalist since the beginning, and it's been refreshing. it's someone who cares about the f fbi and the fbi's mission, who is not going to be buffeted, who is not going to act like a political appointee. you're supposed to transcend politics in that job, but it's a credit to him. i do think it's important when we talk about this inspector general report, it's essential to underline they didn't find any political bias, but i think the mistakes they made and the abuses in applying for some of these fisa warrants are deeply troubling not just because of how it looks, but just to get to the bottom of why they did that. was it a zeal in their investigation toward, you know, getting who they thought the bad guys were? even if it wasn't true political bias, it's a real problem. >> se

. >> i was talking to joe lockhart before the show, and he said something which i notice he will write and talk about. he says democrats should vote to impeach the president, but not take it for a conviction, just continue to investigation so democrats will get the last final word and the investigation gets continued. >> i think the tide is moving in that direction. a lot of thoughtful democrats trying to how are we getting out this box canyon. maybe just censure him in the house, and it's sad they have gotten themselves to this point. >> political columnist and author of "primary colors." joe klein, thank you. >> thank you. >>> i'll talk to a democratic lawyer about what happens next. >>> and later, warren and biden and buttigieg, oh, my. the latest shake-ups on the campaign trail. when we see you enter through our doors, we don't see who you're against, or for, whether tomorrow will be light or dark, all we see in you, is a spark we see your spark in each nod, each smile, we see sparks in every aisle. we see you find a hidden gem, and buying diapers at 3am. we see your kindness and h

he expects moderate economic growth to continue, but will that be the case 2020 joins us is denis lockhartback with us. >> good to see you >>> i would like your take on the overall narrative. peak trade tension, maybe peak regulatory risks, fed's comfortable going into an election year, and maybe to 20 is the year we could go above trend again. what do you think? >> well, i think the best forecast is the continue ways of on the moderate growth we have seen some of the certainty, some of that uncertainly is lifted, and so i think we have a rather benign outlook for the year. it's not gangbuster, but a good solid performance i think ahead of us. >> we've been talking all morning long about the fed balance sheet and this $100 billion a month pace, does that continue after year end? how much is it solving versus creating unintended consequen s consequences. >> i think they're trying to make sure they have enough liquidity in the system top calm or let's say steady markets. that's a bit of a trial-and-error kind of thing. they have been injecting more bank reserves into the system to try to mak

. >>> i want to bring in joe lockhart and se cupp. joe, you've been there, done that, in terms of being a part of a white house after an impeachment. >> right. >> what do you think is going on with this administration right now? >> i've been struck by cnn's reporting of kristen and caitlyn collins last night of how involved the president is involved in the strategy. i would throw this in 1998, 1999, president clinton was not very involved. he was not in the meetings where strategy was discussed. he didn't sequence the lawyers who were going to speak. he serchcertainly looked at it. as a point of reference, charles rough, the white house counsel wrote the opening statement and did not show it to the president, he refused. he said i'm your lawyer i'm going to do this, i don't want input from you. i know what i'm doing here. it doesn't sound like that kind of white house right now. >> no, and you talked about how president clinton kept on doing what he was doing, running the country and the business before him. aside from the impeachment

let's bring in joe lockhart. and ali hodi.is the most important and explains everything. there's a lot of questions why is nancy pelosi doing this? what does she want to get out of it? it might be that tend game here is to rattle the president into an extent triangulate, create opposition between the president and mitch mcconnell. >> i think it's a -- she is seeking some leverage here, to try to get some witnesses. i think she's also trying to keep this in the news on her terms, over the christmas break. but you're right about the main point, which is, everybody has their own equities here. the democrats are together. they want to get john bolton and mick mulvaney under oath. i don't think they care if it's on camera in a deposition, like 1998 or on the senate particulaparticulafloor. he wants cory gardner not to take a hard vote. he wants this done fast and a short trial. the president, for whatever reason, wants a reality show that vindicates him. and right now, she has driven a huge wedge between the majority leader and the

joining us now, joe lockhart, and cnn analyst sun min kim, a reporter for "the washington post." joe, we're at an impasse. congress isn't back until the first week of january. what's the rush? they impeached the president. her work is done. why does she need to rush over to what she thinks is a sham trial? >> one of the things that i think nancy pelosi was trying to do with holding back was to control the narrative. we're still talking about it. the second thing is, the only people this debate matters to are the four or five republicans who might flip on the rules. so i think both sides are going to wait and see how that's going. and we're going to find out, you know, sometime probably the second week in january, that pelosi's gam bit has worked and they're feeling pressure to have a trial that has witnesses, a real trial, or that they don't feel the pressure, they're going to stick with mcconnell, do a show trial, and see the articles sent over. fairly early in january by the 15th, you'll see the articles sent over, because the leverage will have worked for one side or the other

joining us now, jeffrey toobin, cnn's chief legal analyst, joe lockhart, former clinton white house press secretary and bianna golodryga. i want to start with where we sit this morning because, by tomorrow night, president trump will become the third u.s. president ever to be impeached, joe. in the new development overnight, to me, is more and more of these democrats in districts that president trump won. for whom this was supposed to be a very difficult vote. and maybe it is. but they're almost all coming out and saying they're going to vote to impeach president trump. joe cunningham of south carolina, glen mcadams, lee slotkin. and the list goes on and on and on. what do you see as happening here. why? >> you know, i think it's a tough political decision, and at the end of the day, they looked at and watched the hearings and read the depositions and just said, i'm just going to do what's right. i don't think it's more complicated than that. >> we have a little moment of slotkin, just what they've had to face in their own districts. it's interesting. in some ways they can't win because y

joining me to talk about this, sarah isner and also joe lockhart. so joe, to you first. biden not accused of any wrongdoing no bhaer whmatter wh president suggests, but this probably crystallizes the difficult position particularly because he is a candidate for president. how do you think that he should handle a subpoena if one is issued, should he fight it? >> well, i mean, i think that the point that he was trying to make, and he probably could have done it better, is the president wants to focus things on issues that have nothing to do with the president and he is not going to help the president play that game. and he also said today that for 40 years ns in public service, has always provided information that he was compelled do. this is a bit of a side show as far as the witnesses that actually would be called. i don't think that there are even the republican votes, you only need four to stop this, so again, i think it took him a day to get the answer exactly right, but i think that he is in a pretty good place now. and the other thing i'd mention now, trump attackin

"outfront" now joe lockhart and julie pace and tim nestali and thank to you.usual is normal now, and typically and you worked in the white house, the white house would put out a notice of the call with a foreign leader and given the cover up or dispute the contents of past foreign leaders should we trust their account of what took place in this call? >> well i don't think we can trust because they have put out -- even the ukraine call now at the center of impeachment, they're readout was inaccurate. they said in the readout the president raised the idea of corruption in ukraine which he didn't. he raised joe biden. but not the corruption in ukraine. it's not really important any more to put it out because people don't trust it which is a problem. and i think there are real optical and i think national security problems with putting -- talking to putin so often and bringing lavrov into the oval office when our ally there and our nato, which is our ally, is also trying to stand strong against russia here and president zelensky can't get an invite to the oval off

joining us now to talk about what's ahead, we have commentator joe lockhart. he was president clinton's press secretary and cnn legal analyst elie honig. trump's lawyers announced they will not participate this wednesday. it sounds like their beef, elie, is that the witness list hasn't been released yet. they say they don't know what they're going into. that fair? >> it is actually i think a fair complaint. i don't think it's a fair reason to sit it out all together. they've been complaining for weeks now, unfair process, we don't get a voice. then shocker, they decide to sit it out and play the victim rather than engage on the merits. that said, unforced error by jerry nadler. if you look at the letter from the republicans, the main complaint is you haven't told us who the witnesses are for wednesday. three days away from yesterday when the deadline was. why wouldn't nadler -- it's just three constitutional scholars. give them the names. take that argument away. and i am a little concerned on behalf of house democrats, is nadler up to this? i think he really

. >> one thing that was interesting this morning on our program is joe lockhart said everything to thedent is a quid pro quo. and so i mean, that's what has brought us to impeachment, obviously, and he -- that's what he saw last night in this. he lowered the flags for john dingell. therefore, the president believes debbie dingell owed him a no vote in impeachment. that's how he sees everything. >> yeah, and debbie dingell on our air said earlier it was the president who called her, offered to lower the flag so that's really not the point of all of this. i don't think it's surprising to see that the trump impeachment is going like we've seen the trump presidency go before where these kind of attacks are characteristic of the president's style. so when george stephanopoulos asked stephanie grisham, why did the president make that remark, she left it up essentially to what most of the spokespeople around the president would. you'd have to ask the president that, though, of course, she's the one speaking for the president. she should be the one to answer that. that's something you see time

gloria borger, joe lockhart, press secretary for president clinton during his impeachment investigationecutor laura coates. let me start with you, how bad does it look for devin nunes who is on the intelligence committee? >> it looks pretty bad. if i was a member of the house ethics committee, first of all, i would look into this and ask questions about recusal, whatever the rules are, governing recusal in the house of representatives or disclosure, and i would be asking questions for devin nunes and i don't know if adam schiff was told about these phone calls. you know, devin nunes was a key questioner during these committee hearings. >> yeah. >> and the second thing i would worry about is the southern district of new york. the southern district for new york has indicted lev parnas. parnas is clearly trying to cut some kind of deal and if you're a lawyer working for the southern district, you would say what is it that you were talking to devin nunes about? what did he want to know? >> right. >> did he use his office to try and coerce you into giving him more information? there are all

. >> joining us now, we have cnn political correspondent abby philip and joe lockhart. he is president clinton's former press secretary. abby, senator murkowski, how significant is this? i think you were telling us she's known to have, in the past, marched to the beat of her own drum. the fact she's coming out publicly and saying that she's not comfortable with what mitch mcconnell has said. what's the significance? >> she's clearly sending a message to mcconnell that she wants there to be at least an appearance of a fair trial in the senate. i think it is problematic for a moderate or for someone like murkowski to go into this process and having to explain to their constituents that the fix was in at the very beginning. so there's that. i think there's a signal to mcconnell, you need to back away from this kind of rhetoric that we're just working with the president to get him exonerated at the very beginning. then she also had more to say that was about what happened in the house. and she criticized democrats for not calling more witnesses for their handling of the imp

. >> out front now, rick santorum and joe lockhart, former clinton white house press secretary.as powerful about collins doing that and reading it the way he did was it sounded the way exactly like he wanted it to sound that he was saying it now and i know that's chairman nadler 20 years ago. what does this do for nadler? does he need to defend himself? >> i don't think he needs to defend himself. listen, there are a lot of these things from 1998. lindsay graham -- >> that guy is in a class of his own. i would argue professor turley if you go back and look at his testimony, he testified in 1998 that if congress does not think something rises to the level of impeachment they make that decision which democrats were arguing it will vastly expand executive power and we will regret it forever. >> i think these things are two totally different things because i argued in 1998 that it didn't rise to an impeachable offense because it was a very personal mistake he made. it was wrong and he apologized for it and he cooperated. he testified. >> the sexual lies and it wasn't an abuse of pow

joe lockhart served as white house press secretary for president clinton and jim shore was the associateounsel for president trump. you know nancy pelosi. she says she prays for the president. he says i don't believe her, not even close. >> i've known nancy now for over 40 years when i got into politics working with her at the dnc and there were a couple hard and fast rules in politics and one is you don't question someone else's faith. it's just wrong, and i know her to be a devout catholic. i know her family has a connection to georgetown jesuits like i do, and it's just -- >> you believe she prays for him -- >> i absolutely do and it's in the context of praying for the country, praying for her family and praying for her constituents and i have no doubt and it's just wrong to question anyone else's faith. >> it's an odd conversation to be having, obviously, but it came up. she did today. she came back to the podium, jim, people weren't expecting p her to do that. >> she also said don't mess with me. some of it is pure theater and you will see that on both sides. she may firmly believe

second point, democrats like joe lockhart who was here suggested what this shows is that there is non on the president for the actions that took place. the effort to get ukraine involved in the u.s. election. if there are no sanctions, what you'll see is more of what we're seeing today. people like rudy giuliani working on behalf of the president to stir up trouble like this. >> i think one of the most revealing comments of this whole controversy is the president saying at the white house, i guess a couple of months ago now, that china should start an investigation of biden, too. that the president believes that his political interests are identical to the national interest of the united states. so he is allowed to use his power, not to advance anything except the re-election of president trump. that's what rudy giuliani is doing. that's what the president thinks is appropriate. and that's what in significant ways this impeachment is all about. whether the president is allowed to use $390 million of taxpayer money as leverage to get information not that helps the country but that hel

we have former white house press secretary joe lockhart and former white house adviser paul begala.s because i just don't think we can talk enough about the stark contrast and yet some of the comparisons, and it's great to have you both here. joe, one more time, let's get in the time machine and just go back to you on that very day. >> it looks the same. >> looks the same. >> you haven't aged a day in 21 years. >> he's the commander in chief. he will continue to pursue what he thinks is in our national security interest and he's able to pursue our national security interest regardless of what congress does. >> joe, in addition to chairx what hoas the president been doing? >> he's been working hard on other issues, on keeping up with the operation that's -- >> the press briefing. i almost don't know what this is. what is this where the press secretary stands at a podium. >> really waxing nostalgia. >> what were you feeling at that moment? >> it's really strange to say now, but that day didn't feel very much different than a lot of other days. we knew what was going to happen. we'd be

lets discuss now with cnn political commentator joe lockhart, cnn senior global affairs analyst, bianna gold riga, and dana bash, a wealth of wisdom on this christmas eve morning. joe, i've got to start with you. you're uniquely positioned to illuminate one of the things we heard mitch mcconnell say yesterday. it's about using the clinton standard going forward. let's take a listen to what he said yesterday and how he sounded 20 years ago. >> we haven't ruled out witnesses. we've said let's handle this case just like we did with president clinton. fair is fair. >> every other impeachment has had witnesses. it's not unusual to have witnesses in a trial. >> just like we did under president clinton, what does that mean? >> first off, mitch mcconnell talking about fairness is like merrick garland talking about being a supreme court justice, you know, it's ridiculous. let's get to the question you asked me. he's wrong on two fronts. one is these are completely different cases. in 1998 and 1999 everyone who needed to testify had testified under oath. all of the live witnesses, all of the peop

. >>> joe lockhart, and career flnks and law professor cory breshner. thanks for being here.o you see this timeline, and you say what? >> you say for schumer and pelosi, their christmas came a little early. >> really? >> because the fact that this one document shows that there were people involved like duffey and others who had to tell him to do this makes the case for why you need witnesses. why you need documents. i think this had begun to move away from the consciousness of the american people and this one document alone said, boy, i want to know more and see the other documents and most importantly i want to see who told duffy to do it. >> that is not clear. in this document. >> that is not clear. a lot was redacted and you need to have duffey come raise his right hand and say here is what happened. >> let me play what chuck schumer said about this today. listen to this. >> this email is explosive. a top administration official, one that we requested, is saying stop the aid, 91 minutes after trump called zelensky and said keep it hush-hush. what more do you need to reques

. >> out front now, joe lockhart, and former democratic candidate for governor.says that his campaign says today is in the best position to beat donald trump. do you see that? >> well, he is certainly -- i think joe biden, if you look at the polls has him by a couple of point, but this is all within the margin of error. i think we've had a year of campaigning and not much has changed. i think if a year ago you'd said joe biden and bernie sanders were at the top of the polls everyone would nod their heads and there's been a lot of surprises. i -- my concern with sanders is and it's the same with warren is that i don't believe that medicare for all is a popular position without the private health insurance that biden, buttigieg and it is poorly even among democrats and both biden and sanders because they've been in politics as long as they have offer a wealth of where to attack. i think they're both grown ups and can push back and can both credibly take on the president. >> if you look at the head to heads and i'm a skeptic of head to heads, but i'll use them at th

joining us now to discuss cnn political commentator joe lockhart, president clinton's press secretaryring his impeachment, cnn national security and legal analyst susan hennessey and political analyst david gregory. good to have all of you with us. great interview. as we're hashing over everything, this comes out of the letter chuck schumer sent to mitch mcconnell outlying the four witnesses he wants to hear from and saying clearly, if you have other people you think we should hear from who have firsthand knowledge of what we're talking about here, withholding aid to ukraine, let us know. i'm curious based on your history, as you sat there and listened to senator schumer lay out th out his case, what do you think the chances are we are going to see witnesses, some sort of real negotiation with mitch mcconnell? >> you know, i think the real negotiation is not going to go on between schumer and mcconnell. i think in 1999, there was legitimate negotiations where tom daschle and trent lott went off and worked on a deal and the deal they put together made everyone angry. at the end of the

. >> well, two veterans of clinton impeachment joining us now, joe lockhart who served as white houseress secretary back then and cnn political commentator paul begala, a white house strategist. paul, when you watch that clip from the white house counsel at the time, using the words difficult admissions by the president, do you see that as a major difference in how the clinton team approached things? that president clinton admitted making mistakes? >> yes. as greg said from that statement in the grand jury, the first thing bill clinton did was read a statement that he'd written confessing to the affair, admitting he had lied about it. nobody loves bill clinton more than i do, joe does. we were angry and heartbroken, and we were able to say that. democrats on the hill said that. it was not a cult of personality. so the defense was, he's a good man, did a bad thing, but it's not impeachable. the trump defense seems to be at least what the president seems to want is perfect call, i am perfect, nothing wrong. that just doesn't leave a lot of wiggle room for frankly for sanity, for admitti

. >> kaitlan at the white house and out front now, former legal analyst, williams, and joe lockhart during the impeachment investigation and the former director of the nixon presidential library and tim naftali. we reserved judgment on mr. trump for years now and yet they come out and he should be removed from office. this is not an argument for impeachment and this is an argument from a full removal from the senate, from a benchmark evangelical publication. >> it appears to be a big crack in the most solid voting bloc for donald trump. donald trump would not have been elected without evangelical support. they're not monolithic in a group and they've voted in a monolithic way and supported trump in a monolithic way. if they start praying off and getting to and they are persuaded by the point of this editorial, that is a huge problem for donald trump. he can't win without getting 90, 95% of evangelicals. losing 5% of them is a disaster for him. >> even elliott, if it is a turnout issue. we're not talking about evangelicals makeup for whoever the nominee might be. >> we're talking about whit

. >> out front now, joe lockhart former clinton white house secretary, washington post congressionalorter and michael g michael ger hart, a constitutional law professor who testified during the house impeachment hearings. >> murkowski knows her every word is being closely watched when she talks about impeachment. what is she actually saying here? ? this is a bit of a message to the gop leaders that if we do this, we have to do this right. we can't be working hand in glove. there's been this dispute between the democrats and republicans as to what is a fair trial and for people in the middle like murkowski, romney and probably susan collins who are representing an electorate who is not for one camp or the other and to say they're working hand in glove with the president is not speaking clear whichever way you think the witness list question is coming down so she's basically sending a signal to mitch mcconnell that she's not comfortable with this and don't count on her with rubber-stamping whatever the trump defense team wants to do. so it's a signal that maybe lisa murkowski's vote is

correspondent lauren jarrett, senior global affairs correspondent bianna golodryga and commentator joe lockhartnew e-mails had been released thank goodness because of a freedom of information act, we wouldn't know about these e-mails otherwise, the white house as you knows has stonewalled all sorts of documents but now we see they happened 90 minutes after the phone call on july 25th, that the office of budget in the white house had to put this freeze on it, what does that mean, that the president didn't like what happened on that phone call, that somehow president zelensky didn't curry enough favor that president trump didn't think the favor was actually going to go through? why would he do it 90 minutes later? >> the president was making a demand and the demand was not agreed to on the phone call. 90 minutes later the president's wishes they had been working

director of the nixon library, tim neftali, congressional reporter for "the washington post" and joe lockhart who was president clinton's press secretary during his impeachment investigation. tim, okay. two weeks. and you could say his -- his daily time is unstructured in the sense of when he wants to -- you know, watch tv or tweet, that's what he does. but in -- but in mar-a-lago, it's even more so. and that opens up the risk. he's chatting with somebody. something gets in his mind and it goes into his mind and out of his tweet. >> well, speaker pelosi's gambit of holding the articles isn't -- is a high-risk strategy. and one of the ways that it could come out well for her is if president trump puts pressure on mitch mcconnell to get the trial going. and so maybe one reason the aides are worried is that during this down period, the -- the president is going to lose discipline. and start fuming about the fact that maybe there won't be a trial. and maybe he won't be acquitted. and maybe he'll start saying things that will compromise mitch mcconnell's strategy. after all, mitch mcconnell is rea

with us now, former clinton white house press secretary joe lockhart and good to have you both here. joe, put on your old press secretary hat and sell this to us as ethically and legally sound. >> no comment. the best i can do. >> take a day off. >> take the whole weekend off on this one. i mean, i think the hardest thing that came out of this week for the democrats on the impeachment hearings was why don't you wait until all the information comes in? why are you rushing? this is exhibit a of why they're rushing. all of this stuff is going on and the president is still pursuing the criminal acts that he is being accused of with rudy guiliani. >> involving foreign election interference. >> yes. so it absolutely bolstered the democrats' case that we have to move forward now because he wants to corrupt the elections. he is doing it. >> and now we have the tab on your screen saying presidency imperiled. do you find this is like a president is grasping at straws here? >> well, yes and no. i mean, the president is -- democrats want to rush this both because of what joe is talking about but

we even let the lockhart's make fun of us in a skit at the end of the year.laughter] and boy, do they. [laughter] justice gorsuch: that is a whole another story. do we disagree, yes. you have given us the 70 hardest cases in america. of course we are going to disagree sometimes. we do it civilly when we do. we do it collegially. and we have fun doing it. we sing happy birthday to one another. corley and enthusiastically -- .horally and enthusiastically we sing together at the holidays. we eat lunch together. orry day we have conference argument, lunch is available. and then it is bring your own. we work for the government. [laughter] breyer,gorsuch: justice we don't talk shop at lunch. endlessdchildren are an -- knock knock jokes. there are practical jokes. one day, we are all lined up in our robes as we go out to the courtroom. we shake hands every time we gather. 36 hand shakes, no matter how tense and what is going on, 36 handshakes, has been going on 150 years. lining up after handshakes and justice sotomayor comes in and she is not wearing her beautiful

there's been talk from the beginning about what the clinton war room was, we talk about this with joe lockhartt was only recently the trump administration added some advisers to help them deal with the messaging. >> and the advisers they added look pretty on tv but they're not adding anything to the strategy. and there isn't a strategy yet, which is apparent. and what has happened is, there's some big cracks. pelosi passes achievement, mcconnell says he's going to cheat, and she says, i'm not going to send you articles. the next day, there are emails that prove they're trying to cover it up with the omb covering it up with the department of defense. the next day, "christianity today" publishes an op-ed against trump. and now 60% of americans in a poll say they want a fair senate trial. >> how do you think that will then in turn play for any negotiations between mitch mcconnell and chuck schumer? >> i think if they get to where -- in the clinton trial, as you asked, there were unanimous agreement on the rules. the rules were the way senators comported themselves and then they voted on individua

joining us now cnn political commentators joe lockhart, paul begala.have you both here as always. when we look at that exchange, paul, and the vice president told jessica dean he struggles with the balance of wanting to protect his son but needing to respond. did he have the right response? >> i don't think so. i don't think you yell at a voter. you know? now, it wasn't out of control. it wasn't brett kavanaugh at a crying jag. but i don't like going after a voter. i think the better answer for joe is defend your son -- by the way, this is a guy that went to georgetown university, yale law, at the commerce department, knows about business. you can make a case for his request fg qualifications to be on a corporate board. but never attack a voter. attack donald trump. i'm the guy that can beat trump. that's always his message. and he didn't get to that. it's because he loves his son and his son is unfairly attacked. i get that. >> i get the sense from the campaign they're not one bit unhappy with this moment. and that what he was doing was attacking trum

at 5:00 p.m., former fed president dennis lockhart.♪ ♪ >> just like all other pauls, it has a margin of error -- other polls, it has a margin of error. at this stage, we don't feel like we will fall out of parliament because of the margin of error. francine: that was chris curtis. they say the conservative lead thaneen slashed by more half tomorrow, we will -- in by more than half. the election is tomorrow and we will not talk about it. jardine is joining us now. thank you for joining us. of theu look at all concerns, the polls narrowing between laborers and conservatives, what would it take for the lib dems to do a coalition with labour? christine: it will not happen. we will not join with jeremy corbyn in number 10. we could have a hung parliament and if that is the case the lib dems would have a significant influence in the next parliament. we will not be going into coalition with jeremy corbyn or boris johnson. we made that clear. francine: jeremy corbyn or labour? if they replaced him, would you do a coalition? christine: that is