to egypt hoping to renew trade ties in the wake of the country's uprising google coca-cola and lockheed martin among the biggest u.s. trade delegation ever to travel to the arab world for more on what this means for their country and some perspective i'm joined by ramsey bird editor of the palestine chronicle dot com so what do you think what could this business delegation change in the lives of ordinary egyptians way i actually see and you think about it this well if we are familiar with the history of the i.m.f. not just in egypt but elsewhere in the middle east at large and the rest of the world we know that i'm sorry. i mixed up a bit here. u.s. economic policy in egypt and the middle east will find that it is largely a political. trip to egypt it is not worth it to the are making it sound what's gotten all about well what is so political is the fact that it is organized by the u.s. government although they are insisting the political aspect is a minor aspect and this is indeed about trying to forge ties economic ties and invest and take advantage of egypt's riches and they are treating eg

losers lockheed martin among the primes likely to fight the marger. caterpillar and see monos hoping there will be a higher speed limits for a federally funded rail line. locomotives that can hit 125 miles per hour. if they get their way market leader ge will be a loser. its locomotives would only be 110 the faster target could set the standard across the country. as the federal government spends billions on high speed rails. for the first time since 9/11 there's a budget threat in homeland security. the cuts would cost the agency $4.1 billion. fima disaster funding would be spared. the losers would be the agents in blue at the airport. they would have to slice half a billion dollars in aviation security. control of congress may matter as much as business as who wins the white house. the battle between senator scott brown and elizabeth warren in massachusetts. wall street is backing brown but warren has her own outside help. i caught up with both candidates on the campaign trail this week. >> i want to go to washington to fight for working families. s

lockheed martin could be affected. as for stocks, the s&p climb to its highest level since 2007. the bloomberg maryland index was higher on gains for stanley black & decker. you can opt out of tracking cookies on google's browser. this is part of an agreement that google reached with the white house earlier this year. telemarketers have been hard at work and complaints to the government are up sharply about unwanted government soliciting, raising questions about whether the did not call register is working. at the new york stock exchange, i'm jane king, bloomberg news, for wbal-tv 11 news. >> if you say hello and they do not say hello back, hang up. 55 degrees at the airport this morning. a tough loss for the ravens. keith mills has the latest controversy with sports. >> don't forget to e-mail us your response to our water cooler question of the day. what do you think is the most to blame for the ravens' week two loss to the eagles? you can share your response at wbaltv.com and on our facebook page, or send us an e-mail to watercooler@wbaltv.com. >> here is a look at last night's

. >> lockheed martin the other day boosted its dividend from $1 to $1.15. i look at lockheed's portfolio i'm worried about what they have. that's a great company. it's been terrific. i really like the management. but they are able to boost their dividend without pretty close to the fiscal cliff. you've got that 4% yield. is the possibility that you could do something like lockheed martin and raise it or do you have to just wait to see what happens? >> jim, i think we need to wait to see what happens. we have other financial pressures. we have a pension that was part of the transfer from itt. >> go ahead. >> we've got some other uses of the cash that we have to tend to. to but we certainly want to look out for our shareholders. that's why we started with a very competitive dividend. >> okay. now, what can you use and expand into more civilian stuff your high tech? in other words, yes, you're more focused. but there's no one that says you have to do nothing but the feds. >> absolutely. so our commercial payloads for imagery we're trying to market those interna

linda gooden the officer of lockheed martin and the highest ranking african-american executive there. we're going to be honoring sharon pender a small business advocate. as well as expert and we're also going to be honoring hometown favorite natalie randolph who's the coach of calvin coolidge high school. the senior high school men's football team. >> isn't that amazing? these women are incredible. i'm telling, i have to thank you because i don't feel like i belong in that group. these are incredible outstanding -- i mean sheros. women who have really blazed a trail. i want to let everybody know because it is at the carlisle suites, 1731 new hampshire avenue and it begins at 1:30 on sunday, september 16th. it's going to be a fabulous brunch. >> yes. tickets are available at www.womenatliberty.com. >> and i'm going to put it on my website. jchayward.com. so if you go to my website, jchayward.com, you'll be able to get tickets for this special event. you know what? bring your daughters. bring your nieces. bring your grandchildren. so that they can see these incredible outstanding women

defense spending is under a lot of pressure when it comes to the fiscal cliff and boeing and lockheed martin and others have looked globally for their growth. what could it mean for those international markets for the domestic defense contractors? >> well, if they're going to have more competitors, last year the united states had like 87% of the global market, 60 some odd billion dollars. what you'll see is they will not have as high of a share. i think the u.s. company share will drop back closer to 50%. >> tom: does the market shrink asell? or does that market continue to grow even with more competitors? >> well, the market grew substantially this year, primarily because of the threat that many middle east countries perceive from iran so, that was the big uptick in the global market. but again i think that the competition will be in what we call the developing countries, europe is not increasing its defense budget, our budget is going to, it's already going down and it probably will go down even more, even if we don't get sequestration, you will see further reductions as we try to grap wel

stalls are manned by some of the biggest american corporations including google coca-cola and lockheed martin it's the largest u.s. trade delegation ever to travel to the arab world the push for new markets comes as washington sweetened the deal with a proposed one billion dollars aid package for cairo egypt's foreign policy has been largely in line with that of the u.s. expressing sympathy for the uprising in syria and demonstrating support for bahrain's room. political sociologist sayed said he says that when it comes to foreign affairs mohamed morsi is just as convenient for the americans as barack was . egypt was serving us too much most trying to continue the same policy but it was some rhetorical distance some symbolic acts that he is independent for example it was his first visit the first visit by any egyptian leader of. course thirty years no egyptian leader went so he went there but did he big or start any strategic alliance was iranians know he went there and express the same. iranian policy on its policies on syria. and then please the gulf states big finances of the egyptian econ

attracted representatives from such chances google coca-cola as well as defense powerhouses like lockheed martin the push for new markets comes as washington sweeten the deal with a proposed one billion dollars aid package for cairo egypt's foreign policy has been largely in line with that of the u.s. expressing sympathy for the uprising in syria and demonstrating support for bahrain's ruling family political sociologist saeed sidique says that when it comes to foreign affairs mohamed morsi is just as convenient for the americans as hosni mubarak was egypt was serving the u.s. too much. is trying to continue the same policy but it was some rhetorical distance some symbolic acts that he is independent for example it was his first visit the first visit by egyptian leader to run for city years no egyptian leader went to iran so he went there but did he big or start any strategic alliance was really has no he went express to see him. on iranian policy on its policies on syria. and please the gulf states while big finances of the egyptian economy and also he pleased. nobody was showing anything is ha

trade delegation ever to travel to the arab world google and coca-cola among the companies a plus lockheed martin one of the world's biggest defense contractors the push for new markets comes as washington is sweetening the deal with a proposed billion dollar a package for cairo egypt's foreign policy has largely been aligned with that of the u.s. expressing sympathy for the uprising in syria demonstrating support for bahrain's ruling family ramsey baruta editor of the palestine chronicle dot com though thinks the trip is politically motivated. it is organized by the u.s. government although they are in. misting that the political aspect is a minor aspect and this is indeed about trying to forge ties economic ties and invest and take advantage of egypt's riches and they are treating egypt as just a business partner but in reality we know that this is not the case if we remember that in february two thousand and eleven just days after the success of the egyptian revolution in toppling hosni mubarak we saw david cameron leading a whole group of. companies mostly military companies going to egypt to

in two thousand and six they put out the framework for it two thousand and eight they told all lockheed martin that they can have a billion dollars to do it just today we are reporting that this program being put together by the f.b.i. you can read about it in our usa has officially started rolling out and it's going to involve face recognition connected to an f.b.i. infrastructure which can then fuse. collected with these suspicious activity ports all over the world in all over the united states and they're talking about having like fourteen million photographs of civilians imploded within the next few years and one that's connected with i don't know license plates imaging software iris scans fingerprints and then you connect it with trap lawyer and every surveillance camera in america and then it starts getting a little fishy but hey it's just fear mongering what are the odds that the cops are actually going to start watching us and. really are. i mean isn't it ira it's just kind of ironic though that you know you're they're arresting people who are not arresting people for their data mining

really a cost plus model that's used by the defense contractors and i think you know i'm sure lockheed martin is sitting around saying why do we need to pay you know goldman sachs this money we're on a cost plus contracts business model so i mean there's no reason not to move them that way now particularly when they have this market share so i just think the banks are in for a major cultural change ok so you're going for a major reorganization of the entire industry ok captain austin fitz runtime thanks so much for being. on the cause report thanks max you have a great day all right super that's going to do it for this edition of the kaiser report with me max kaiser and stacy herbert i would like my guest catherine austin fitts to join us i mean email please do so because a reported r t t v dot are you into like some x. guys are saying by.

liberties can union ok let's talk about this project a one billion dollars project designed by lockheed martin transportation security solutions how big of a deal is this. that's an incredibly big deal one of the major reasons that it's so troubling is like so many other technology programs that the federal government has rolled out recently there has been very little if any public input or conversation with the american people about whether or not this is something that we should do and that sort of secrecy has extended all the way to congress to the to the extent that you know congress hasn't authorized affirmatively. you know for the f.b.i. to engage in a you know what amounts to essentially information gathering and potentially everybody in the country because it's crucial to know and i have to just tell everybody who is watching that the foremost expert in the privacy community on these issues is jennifer lynch of the electronic final frontier foundation and she put together a really excellent report a couple of months ago that i'm using a lot because she you know she did a really deep di

really a cost plus model that's used by the defense contractors and i think you know i'm sure lockheed martin is sitting around saying why do we need to pay you know goldman sachs this money we're on a cost plus contracts business model so i mean there's no reason not to move them that way now particularly when they have this market share so i just think the banks are in for a major cultural change ok so you're looking for a major reorganization of that entire industry ok catherine austin fits right in time thanks so much for being on the cars report thanks max you have a great day all right super not going to do it for this edition of the kaiser report with me max kaiser and stacy herbert i guess catherine austin fitts joins me now please do so because a reported r t t v dot are you. download the official. stream quality and enjoy your favorite. t.v. is not required to watch on its own you need to use your mobile device to watch on t.v. any time any. they were young and high flying. their careers were on takeoff. that flight for them was one of many. and the last one. leaving the ice monarch

move on then let's let's talk more about the project the one billion dollar project designed by lockheed martin transportation security solutions barrett we've talked about this before you and me this facial recognition. but you know as of late notably within the private security system known as trap wire now we know this exists so why is this latest news from the f.b.i. why shouldn't even be alarming at all. things just are getting alarming when things start going so. we would talk about you know. we are seeing the f.b.i. misrepresent so and get on the ship so. how it operates. over and over again and it's going to orange between what we discuss here and what some of the things that i others end up seeing sort of in the background in the course of the work we do on this. point where. we just we've made a stop accepting accepting it just as another news story out of another the revelation. is just like on the border a lot of people i know been chartered by. the past two years now sara one of the things that can be said is just how little is known about this program and how it works you yourself

as you mentioned, be have boeing, but we also have lockheed martin and northrup who are even bigger players in the defense market. >> and it raises the question is it a bigger deal for civilian air space market or defense. and obviously it's defense. >> the u.s. defense market which is still the world's biggest by several multiples. and why there's been a lot of noise about saudi arabia and china and other countries which are sort of bunch onin burgeoni. >> they need to get away from the reliance on the u.s. market, don't you think? >> i think bae also may have more power within sort of broader contracts within the defense market with some of their strength. for example eads has a strong market in the space which will be growing. >> one interesting catalyst appantap pant apparently goes back to the fact that they want to operate more independently, wants to combat that perception. and this deal i suppose is seen as being an important step in doing so. >> like a lot of the rest of the eurozone in that you seem to have to have a german to come into try and sort all of this out because of cour

lockheed martin and northrop grumman are down a few points but not significantly.ou talked about oil prices. interesting because i tweeted out yesterday that oil nearing $100 a barrel, very regressive. gas prices continue to climb. is that another reason why you think the fed is ultimately going to be bad for the u.s. economy, inflation whacking everybody? >> it's a tax on consumers. you have the federal government running trillion plus deficits. any dollar not spent by the public sector can be invested in the private sector, can be invested in this productivity fabric, invested in this mobile infrastructure that is going to drive productivity and create wealth. and so the more that we can do to drive this productivity, the better. higher gas prices is a negative in all this. >> i've got to interrupt because that's not true. i agree with andy with respect to gas prices, and qe's effect on gas prices, clearly the lower income brackets hurt more by the price of food and gasoline, no doubt about it. but with respect to this argument that somehow the public sector is c

one version is built by a team by lockheed martin and the other by aus it. a. l, usa. the 55-foot ship has been the subject of critics for being too small and too short on capabilities while progress on the mission modules has stalled. here to bring us up to speed on this important program is one of the only guys who's ridden on all three ships who doesn't work for the navy or one of the contractors. defense new's very own warfare reporter, the one, the only christopher p. cavas. welcome back to the show. >> thanks. how is the overall program? >> this has been an acquisition and development program for 8, 10 years. at the moment it's starting now to really transition from the shipyards and planters and budgeteers into the fleet. the fleet now has three of these ships. they need to get these things running. they are starting to learn how to operate them. >> there was a whole series of incidents with engines and other systems and corroding and cracking. are we over that? do we fully understand what's going on with that? >> these are new ships. they are development ships,

boeing entering the area, lockheed martin, midair, aar. all hiring hundreds of new workers.ow did they do it? those involved in recruiting say the keys were, a, being ready. so they were anticipating this for a few years. and b, diversifying beyond just space. the results how this? attracted more than 2,300 jobs, $240 million in capital investment and 360 million in new construction. unemployment close to 12% down to 9.7%. >> we are a community that faces it. we faced it with "challenger" exploded and "columbia" and "apollo" retired and sort of used to that and being used to that doesn't make you immune to it. it makes you remember it. >> it's still pretty high but not the kennedy space center where space-x and boeing have the big contracts for space. long term they plan to be there and not fly by night companies. >> also tourism. i understand that it used to pump in $2.8 billion each year in to the space coast an i'm sure it was helped with "i dream of genie" reruns but has tourism come back? >> the nostalgia of the shuttle program, tourism held up really well. two, three y

contractors will send tends of thousands layoff warnings among those confirming the warnings, lockheed martinworld's biggest defense contractor by the way. joining me is philip ewing. thank you for joining us. >> thanks for having me. >> let's talk about this warning. is this gamesmanship? is this a true threat that people could be without a job, and we certainly know that is not needed in this country rights befo right before the election? >> i think it's a little of all of the above. there's a big standoff in washington today over this skwauld sequester happening on november of next year. it's the defense industry and pentagon and defense advocates said it will be a disaster if it takes effect, because as many as 2 million people could lose their jobs. the defense industry is trying to jump start the congressional process by threatening to send out these layoff notices. they're banking that lawmakers don't want them to go out so soon before the election that they can take action before then to stop it from happening. >> what's been the response on both sides of the aisle regarding this thre

but the thing to focus on here is the reaction from boeing, lockheed martin, general dynamics. those guys are the powerhouse defense companies that would face the biggest implications if eads and bae got together. as we take a look at these shares, that's the area to focus on and whether or not this would meet approval here in the united states. >> those are absolutely huge questions. it is clear that eads is regarded as the acquirer of bae if you look at the stock price. >>> coming up ahead on "power lunch," the difference between what wall street wants in november and what they think they're going to get. >>> plus, more on apple live from san francisco. brian sullivan is in the thick of it, so to speak. brian? >> reporter: it really is, guys. simon, i want to bring you a couple of data points. 400 million ios devices sold now as of last month. 400 million. 17 million ipads sold between april and june. tim cook, the ceo, taking a swipe at the competitors saying, we've got 91% web browser market share on our tablet, "i don't know what those other tablets are doing." so take a l

both iraq and afghanistan are very little popular support, yet for a handful of corporations, lockheed martin, northrop grumman and halliburton, they are immensely profitable as the war is for his journey to the concert in tiny segment. as said war is a racket. so we unfortunately have created a world where power has become centralized in the hands of a select group of corporations that are more powerful than the state itself that it is within the american political system and possible to vote against the interest of goldman sachs and unless we support that power, we are doomed because corporations, unfettered federal some coral ridge a great book about this in 1944 called the great transformation turn everything into a commodity and it is a revolutionary force and human beings become commodities, the world becomes a commodity that you exploit until exhaustion or collapse. that is how the environmental crisis is intimately twinned with the economic crisis. and if we don't somehow find a mechanism or a way to break the power of the corporations they can trash or continue to trash the ecosystem

talk to your local defense contractor, and it's not just the big lockheed martin. they have suppliers who they depend upon in your communities who will be able to tell you the effects sequester would have on them. they are already getting head's up because they provide to the primes. some of that stuff you could just start to ask questions. the cold calling is a great idea honestly. it sucks, it's not fun to do it because most of the people you speak with are now media savvy so they see a downside talking to you. they say, well, i'll only get hurt by saying something my boss doesn't like, blah, blah, blah. you have to work it, but it's good to reach out because you will get spun by interest groups. >> talking to any business, you want to know how they are planning for the cliff, you know, whether they are defense business or not or federal contracts or not. are they worried about one of those small businesses where the owner has, you know, is over 250? well, okay, how are they going to react? what would their reaction be to higher taxes? are they worried all tax cu

lockheed martin -- where did that come from?hese companies started started collapsing down to just a few. congress was worried what effect this would have on the aerospace industry of the nation. because aerospace is responsible for military, airborne security, it is responsible for transportation, for commerce, they recognize a fundamental part of what it is to live in america in the 21st century. they want to get to the bottom of it. many of the aerospace companies, they not only make the airplanes, but the spacious. and so we have aero people and space people on the commission. i was counted as one of the space people. one of the trips we took was around the world. this is 2002. around the world to key places that have burgeoning aerospace industries to find out there is some competition that were not living up to -- were they doing we are not doing it, i went to beijing in 2002. my first time there, i went there with a complete portfolio stereotype about what i would expect. boulevards and bicycles. all right? this is what i

about twice as much as lockheed martin has right now. and they say it would be credit positive for both of the companies. it's looking fairly good. however the likelihood of it going through depends very much on some of the stumbling blocks such as government control, sovereignty of all the countries being involved. so all in all it is a german franco pact and that may not be valid if you see the merger going through. >> bae reported to ring fence concern measures trying to protect according to a source speaking to reuters. can i just mention something else about this story that i thought was interesting. because you know how the governments want to -- apparently brussels may not allow that. you're allowed a golden share with a defense company, but not with an aerospace or like airline make business. >> something we've learned about brussels, they're open to negotiation. >> but that's the ultimate irony. brussels which is pushing for the one eurozone state might be the institution that might block the one european company. that would be

the way it's set up, our giants, the titans of the defense industry, the boeing, lockheed martins, theyren't interested in efficiency or turning out cost effective weapons our troops can rely on. what they have done is they put office functions, research facility, sub contractors, assembly plants in all the major congressional districts. what that means is that although politicians from both parties love to pose with our troops for campaign photos. when it comes time to vote on capitol hill, a member of congress will vote to preserve 30 jobs in his or her home district even if it puts 30,000 troops out of work. so i hate the hypocrisy. what we have got to do is preserve the experienced force and you want to talk about jobs? what about pink slips for a couple hundred thousand troops to start? how does that help the economy? and recently there was spectacle about a month ago. a defense ceo went to the hill and said, if you do these cuts there will be 2 million jobs lost in the defense industry. didn't say a word about troop cuts. nobody on the hill pinned them down and said common, where

>> the level of the market and when you look at stocks like lockheed martin, there is no evidence the we're going over the cliff. it seems almost pollyannaish to me how benign the market is at this point. ashley: are we due for a correction then do you think? >> well, we think we're in for some volatility especially as we approach the fiscal cliff. what could very well happen come november that's some of the companies particularly defense companies, start sending out notices to their employees and to about plant closing and layoffs. if that happens we think there will be a lot of chatter, a lot of back and forth. that could create some jitters. but for right now, we don't see it, and i will point out that we've had the debt ceiling increased without political rancor that we're used to or maybe expecting. so right now, the market is telling us that it all looks good. ashley: all looks good. hey, look through rose tinted glasses as they say. thanks so much for joining us. we appreciate it. >> thank you, ashley. ashley: thank you. tracy: well, f stock members which is the financial stabi

two women from lockheed martin and phebe novakovic.his. some of these defense women are on a panel, asking how are you able to navigate in the ultimate male industry? >> she is mentioned as the coo of general dynamic. gisel ruiz? >> highest ranking member on the list, coo of walmart's u.s. business, a $265 billion business. a young woman. we have seven newcomers and two returnees on the list. she's the highest ranking newcomer. >> you've been doing this 15 years. what's the biggest change you've seen in women who you're now considering making the list? >> when whoa started in 1998, there were two fortune 500 ceos. now there are 13. pathetic, but what we have today that we didn't have 15 years ago is women running really big companies. the companies you mentioned, they're all household names. >> even still, with women serving on corporate boards, my understanding is that it will take 70 years to reach full parody for women serving on corporate boards as men, if we go at the current rate we're going on. >> not if everyone reads belle cli

john mccain, who has been really a strong anti sequestered by, will tell you about lockheed martin at nauseam. he's very frustrated with the f35 program. lindsey gramm will tell you that they are against it. their dispute is with the manner in which these cuts would occur thesesequester. there really has never been a good plan that the defense department puts forth. really do these plants ever materialize if they say they will. most often, almost always the overshoot their costs so much that it is fairly outrageous the average american realizes how badly they missed. on both sides, they all realize that on the defense side, there is a savings to be found. there will be savings also wants the war -- we simply will not be spending dent and -- debt to finance the war in afghanistan. at some point those numbers will diminish, too. it is a giant mess. it is just a giant mess right now. >> there is a constituency for stopping the domestic side of the sequestered. it is most of the progressive caucus, the black caucus, try to protect programs that would affect their constituents more heavily

guest: boeing, lockheed martin. a lot of smaller companies, too. host: you have been giving out this clock. when it comes to taking a look at sequestration. it shows about 96 days left. what is important to know about that number from the people you represent? guest: we are running straight for a fiscal cliff everyone talks about. the number of days is all that is left before the law goes into effect. that is what some people do not realize. this is a law on the box. it is not just a proposal. we are facing reality unless we change it. host: does that preclude that nothing can be done about it wants congress comes back from the election? guest: we are putting a lot of hope on the lame duck session. we are hoping they will get a dose of reality. people do not want to see the undermining of the national security or the job losses going on with this. the congressional budget office said this will push us back into a recession next year. i think after they have had conversations at home they will come back and we hope they will be much more realistic a

guest: boeing, lockheed martin. a lot of smaller companies, too. host: you have been giving out this clock. when it comes to taking a look at sequestration. it shows about 96 days left. what is important to know about that number from the people you represent? guest: we are running straight for a fiscal cliff everyone talks about. the number of days is all that is left before the law goes into effect. that is what some people do not realize. this is a law on the box. it is not just a proposal. we are facing reality unless we change it. host: does that preclude that nothing can be done about it wants congress comes back from the election? guest: we are putting a lot of hope on the lame duck session. we are hoping they will get a dose of reality. people do not want to see the undermining of the national security or the job losses going on with this. the congressional budget office said this will push us back into a recession next year. i think after they have had conversations at home they will come back and we hope they will be much more realistic a

combined revenue for military sales, 45 bmd last ye$45 billio bigger than lockheed martin. you can see the impact on the broader market. the ibex 35 the underperformer down 1%. other markets are lower, as well. a lot of talk about people just waiting on the federal reserve later today. saw it in asia where central bank on hold including the bank of korea. italy is in the news a little b bit. it auctioned off a 15 year bond for the first time since last year. borrowing costs came down significant loi that. seen as a relative sign of success for that country. just want to leave you with a quick look at what's happening in the commodities and oil space in particular because of course we have renewed interest in the mideast. don't have that price action to show you, but nevertheless want to reiterate that that's been the major news out this morning and we haven't seen too much of a reaction in oil prices. but there certainly is going to be upwards supply pressure now at the same time that people are talk about fed easing and global growth adding more of a shine to the demand si

you have the chairman of lockheed martin coming up in front of the house terms services committee talking about having to put out those notices. you have a federal department coming out and sang you do not need to put out those notices because it is not notably at as to whether there will be sequestered. as you all know, congress never does anything until the absolutely must. one of the things we're learning about sequester is we do not know when it will fall. we know it is supposed to happen on january 2 but the office of management and budget is expected to manage what happens. one of our reporters define storage talking about how omb can decide when they start to apply sequester. it could be in the last quarter of the coming fiscal year before they actually do the cuts as a percentage of a whole which will be more severe. but the gives congress wartime to figure out what to do. it is a tough situation. would you have is both sides are demagoguing the issue. there are both using sequester to try to win an argument trade republicans are saying sequester was the president's idea. it is la

it used to be martin it used to be lockheed.hese companies started collapsing down in to just a few. congress was worried what affect this would have on the air -- arrow space industry of the nice. they are responsible for the military, airborne security, responsible for the transportation, commerce, they recognize there's a fundamental part what it is to live in america in the 21st century. they wanted to goat bottom of it. many of the aerospace companies, they not only make the airplanes, they make the spaceships. and so we had air row people on the commission and space people on the commission. i was counted as one of the space people. one of the trips we took was around the world. this is late 2002. around the world to key places that have aerospace industries to find out is there some competition that we're not living up to? what are they doing we're not? we visited china. i went to bay shinning in 2002, my first time there, i went there with a complete portfolio of stereo types about what i would expect. boulevards of bicy