one is high yield, and the other is leverage loges. leverage loans have been outperforming high yield. i was hope to catch up with two people on different sides of the trade. one is cris of oppenheimer funds. we asked them whether either side has room 0 rub. take a listen to what they have to say. >> i think the leverage lone trade is not going -- because you are going to make a money -- a lot of money on it. you get decent income. if things turn south, then the protection you have because of seniority is going to be very significant. i think it is fair to say that the supply of loans has been somewhat of a problem where you see lots of issuers coming into the marketplace who wouldn't have come in normally. but i think if you have an actively managed fund where you pick the right securities in a down cycle, loans will distinguish themselves. >> how did that work out in 2018? not very well. high yield was down about 26%, and loans were down 31%. we are just seeing the pattern we have seen over the past few years. it is that companies th