capitol where lois lerner expecting to plead the fifth. take a listen. >> and yet, they expect us to believe it was just the work of a couple employees. two rogue agents in cincinnati. and finally, mr. chairman, i would say this, subject this committee knows something about. this administration -- this administration which told us and told the american people that the attack that killed four americans in benghazi was the work was caused by a video is now the same administration who expects us to believe that this scandal was just the result of two rogue agents in cincinnati. mr. chairman, the people don't buy it, the american people get it, and they just want -- they just want this administration to give them the truth. and that's why this hearing is so important. and i yield back. >> i thank the gentleman. i understand mr. lynch will -- on behalf of the ranking member, mr. lynch is recognized. >> thank you very much, mr. chairman. i want to thank you and the ranking member for holding this hearing and i'd also like to thank the witnesses

martha: let's give you background on lois lerner. she has been the head of the division since 2005 and was responsible for okaying 800,000 tax exempt organizations. she'll be at the big table in the congressional hearing in a little while from now. bill: one of th one of them aske questions. here is how that went with the congressman. jay stop chaffetz. thank you for your time today. if lois lerner takes the fifth what does that suggest? >> i hope sheen to the. we are just trying to get to the truth. she is deeply worried about something she may have done previously. the president encouraged the employees to be open and transparent then she wouldn't do that. i hope she has a change of heart. bill: her lawyer says there is an open investigation. it's not appropriate. does he have a right here? >> it appears there is a lot of smoke when i have somebody pleading the fifth and you are asking basic questions about an investigation we are doing and how the irs acted. it certainly doesn't look good. bill: you have a lot of players. the irs,

>> bret: let's take a closer look at the woman of the hour, lois lerner. here's some ground indicating this is not the first time lerner has been suspected of playing fast and loose with the rules. >> now under the protection of her lawyers and the fifth amendment, lois lerner is facing a maelstrom that began earlier this month at an american bar conference, when they apologized for the irs's targeting of certain groups. >> ms. lerner -- >> they used names like tea party or patriots, and they selected cases simply because the application had those names in the title. >> she said she hadn't revealed the information sooner because she was never asked, but two days before the aba conference lerner was specifically asked about the investigation. >> so ms. lerner, if you can comment briefly on the irs investigation into these political not for profits i'd appreciate that as well. >> there was a questionnaire that began this discussion. there's also a questionnaire out there that is seeking information from section 501(c)(4), 5 and 6 organizations. >> the congres

lois lerner had not offered an opening statement in advance. she had notified through her attorney that she would be taking the fifth. so you heard that play out where she was able to effectively testify, assert her innocence, take no additional questions. that's raising some new questions for the committee as you heard the chairman saying that they're going to have to look into this in terms of recalling her. and it's kind of a combination we did not expect. >> hold on a second, kelly. i'm going to interrupt use because he's talking about this. >> there were questions about how it was done. there can be no question that we have to respect it. additionally, that her assertion is not to be viewed or used during this hearing to make any determination plus or minus as to actions that were taken we have inspector generals with us today. and this committee has more than ten additional witnesses that will be called either to hearings or to interviews already on the schedule. i believe that this committee has a long history of very few during my tenur

let us not forget lois lerner. okay. the now suspended irs official who was in charge of the 26 overseeing tax exempt groups, refused to resign, refused to answer questions with the congressional hearing last week. just why did she stake the fifth? could it be because lois lerner repeatedly lied or at the very least misled congress? the question is, is she guilty of criminal charges and might she actually go to jail? all right. there is a great new piece by ileano johnson that laid out this perfect review. ace reporter contributor robert costa of the national review. robert, if you were lois lerner, how worried would you be? >> reporter: lois lerner should be very worried right now. the national review has been deeply reporting this story. why did she take the fifth? she probably took the fifth because she wants to eliminate criminal liability for evading congress, especially when the house oversight last year was asking question she didn't seem to give direct answers. >> all right. one of the points that comes up here,

what do you do with lois lerner, u.s.orney and get a contempt order or handle it within the congress. >> i think we will try within the congress first. chairman issa and lawyers work for the oversight staff working that out as we are speaking. >> megyn: all right, sir. thank you for being here. >> thank you. >> megyn: three minutes, george zimmerman's attorney is here live with new evidence including pictures that he says come directly from travon martin's cell phone and he believes this could be potentially game-changing in this case. he's next. uncer ] from more efficient payments. ♪ to more efficient pick-ups. ♪ wireless is limitless. available out there. i knew devry university would give me the skills that i needed to make one of those tech jobs mine. we teach cutting-edge engineering technology, computer information systems, networking and communications management -- the things that our students need to know in the world today. our country needs more college grads to help fill all the open technology jobs. to help

that is the story of lois lerner. the woman heading the center of the division of the irs scandal was asked to resign and she said no. she is instead on paid administrative leave and she will earn her 180,000 sallary. she may be ordered back to capitol hill before invoking the fifth. florida senator mi ca said technically her hearing is still in progress. >> in consultation with the counsel, we did not adjourn the hearing. it is still open and chairman issa recessed it and she can be called back. >> and interesting details and molly heningburg live for us tonight. democrats say there is no reason to call lois lerner back to the hill. the ranking democrat expects that lois lerner would take the fifth again. and she's legally allowed to do so. >> her insight perhaps the information she has might have very will helpful to us in learning all of the facts whatever they might be. but again, in our country, we have something called the constitution. republicans contend that since lerner made a statement insists she did nothi

lois lerner sits down. she did nothing wrong, then she says after consulting with my attorney and thinking about it, i have to invoke my fifth amendment rights. darrell issa, the chair, moved to dismiss miss lerner and her attorney. and then a congressman said wait a minute, we heard her responses. >> did you expect it to go like this, dana in? >> we didn't know what to expect, sources said they were going to take the cues from lerner on how she chose to respond. trey gowdy who raised objections was a prosecutor for years and years and years. his first job in politics is this, being a member of congress after being a prosecutor. that's where he's coming from there. the other thing we should tell our viewers, other people who are testifying from the irs came voluntarily. she was subpoenaed, in this particular committee, the chair has a pretty big power to issue subpoenas when he feels it's necessary. he ultimately did so with lerner bought he did not think she was going to come voluntarily. you know, it was

was it people over lois lerner?t the relationship between lois lerner and the white house? we know when it came to quote getting ahead of the inspector general report, that there were discussions with the white house counsel and the chief of staff and the president, pretty high up the food cheney is there that's where i was going. up the food cheney. your lawsuit is very important. it's interesting. it says basically they are still targeting tea party an conservative groups. it's the food chain i think which is ultimately going to be great interest. let me ask you this, jay, you used to work for the irs if i'm not mistaken as an attorney. >> yes, a long time ago. >> what do you make of this idea, douglas schulman, went to the white house 118 times, what they were talking about, nobody knows. he ain't talking, 118 times. his predecessor mark everson, who has been on this show many times was there once during the bush years. this guy schulman 118 times. what does that mean? >> that there was an awful lot of discussion

lois lerner expressed concerns, they continued. well past when lois lerner said they'd stop.'t know much more than what we had in the ig report. you have this guy called the determinations unit. it determined whether or not the applications are getting scrutiny. a bunch of media reports of 501c4s. they begin to put into place these filters. they say it wasn't political. they say they were getting a ton of tea party applicants, but they do put in place a very political filtering mechanism. this killed by lois lerner. this is the part of the story i think is amazing and strange. then they go back and redo it. print a new set that is again politicized and then gets bounced up the chain again and the higher ups say you guys can't create any more filters without approval from management. so right now from what we know, it appears to be the filtering coming out of this group, the determinations unit and i'm not saying we know why. the big question would be whether or not it goes higher. every time we've heard it going higher, the higher ups have killed it. i'm not hearing the expan

we have 15 with lois lerner's signature on it. they kept on changing the criteria which made the situation worse, not better. it's unfortunate will be tragic at the organization -- the internal revenue service is institutionally incapable of execute. do you know what else we got this week? a compliance letter for a 01c4 tax exempt organization that has been recognized. they got randomly last week a compliance audit to go online and fill out own 8-page questionnaire with unbelievably intrusive questions in the middle of all of this. the irs is doing compliance checks. this is harassment. it's absurd and that's why we are in federal court. martha: the questions are enough to make you throw in the towel and i forget, and that may be the goal. i want too point out something you have in your document. in many cases they sort of would say, those questions that we asked you to fill out, just skip those. we have a new group of questions for you. delay, delay, delay. in some cases what they weren't doing was as powerful as what necessity we

i think lois lerner, somebody should have outlawyered her.e idea she's getting paid full time without having to do any work is going to bug some people. at least she's off the job and not there involved in any way of the mishandling of the files. >>> it's irony that lois lerner discover this in the beginning, told the employees to change criteria, not to do it anymore. she sort of awkwardly tried to get it out during the bar association speech. she also probably has some civil service protections. that also is an issue here. these are career employees except for the two appointed people at the top. the general counsel and the general sort of the leader of the irs. these are career civil servants. it's not easy to cashier them whenever you want. we want there to be a distance between the white house and irs so they're not directly right on top of telling them what to do. >> you really think the american people are going to let the president off the hook because he can't fire a bunch of people who did some stuff wrongs? they're going to say lib

lois lerner?t exempt organizations knew, and you'd he have to ask the inspector general that others knew at this time. >> well, your action, you know, at the irs -- you were the head of the irs mr. shulman, who did know? i mean, come on, you've read the report and you were commissioner and come on. if you don't know, it sounds like somebody's not doing his j job. so -- why wasn't more direct action taken, first, you know, when these terms were discovered right away and then, in a second chance, the irs had a second chance after the same activity started again in january 2012, incredibly, started again, you know, irs stopped for a while and then went back again, old habits. i can't believe that, frankly. why wasn't more firm action taken by people, the commissioner himself or by people at the top? it's outrageous. any -- first, figure out this is unacceptable conduct. mr. miller? >> again, sir, all i can say we were unaware. i was unaware it happened, but in may, i took action. >> so what action di

lois lerner still has his job. shulman testified he basically didn't know what happened and couldn't be responsible for 90,000 employees. everyone has their hands in the air. no one knew what happened. people need answers and democrats will not defend the administration on this that's why it will have such an effect on his ability to pass his agenda. gregg: ab, i'm almost out of time here so we'll have to make this quick but some are already talking about and some in congress, including mitch mcconnell today saying that some in congress should defund, well this is a different quote from mitch mcconnell. but, some in congress are talking about defunding the irs as the enforcement mechanism for obamacare. do you think that's going anywhere? >> i do. there are a lot of problems on the horizon for the implementation of obamacare. people are very nervous about it, including the administration. i think there is potential there for serious problems once you cross the irs with, with the implementation of the health care la

>> lois lerner had to take the fifth amendment. the attorney general of the united states said she's under criminal investigation and even though i cannot imagine a criminal charge coming out of this, you have to take the fifth amendment under those circumstances, and congress should respect the rule of law here. we have a fifth amendment for a very good reason. now, that said, lerner says she did nothing wrong. no, i don't think she broke the law, but you know what, she bungled this. she's an executive, and she should resign and she should resign immediately, and i do not understand why she hasn't been fired, but she needs to be removed immediately. low-level irs employees accused of minor misconduct have been roused from their homes before dawn in front of their neighbors and this woman continues in this job. it is -- she just shows she has no honor and this comes after she has been accused of lying by a member of congress, she lied in the interview with reporters, and i know another reporter with an impeccable reputation who's c

lois lerner taking the fifth this week.nd the justice department decision it search james rosen's e-mail went all the way to the top with attorney general holder. >> and the role of obama care. and the highest sack foys for our nation. talking to two celebrities that are using star power to observe. nfirst it was the ap and now our own james rosen here in fox and maybe his family members as well. the justice department snoping through private phone records in the so- called hunt for leakers. if media companies don't fight the overreach we'll all suffer and how so? >> i think all reporters individually if you go back to the begins of the obama administration. all of us here at fox they decided to launch a war on fox news and claim that we were in the a legitimate news organization and frankly lied and distorted fox news and most of the media stayed silent. there was no push back against this and now everybody is shocked that the obama administration has total contempt for the media. >> john, last week or the week before. you

we have lois lerner dismissed from the room. on today including a stock market rally. back in a second. all statio comover to missioa for a final go. this is for real this time. step seven point two one two. rify and loc command is lked. five seconds three, two, one. standing by for capte. the most innovativesoftware on . dragon is captured. is connecting today'leading companies to places beyond it. siemens. answers. ♪ stuart: it has been a moment or two of high drama for your money, investments and the drama unfolded in washington. lois moore at the center of the irs scandal has been dismissed from the hearing room. prior to her dismissal, prior to that, a democrat from massachusetts, congressman lynch said if you do not answer questions, we want a special prosecutor. that breaks open the irs scandal. bernanke under question from kevin brady. under his questioning, bernanke suggested they would look at how much they are going to print. how much money they are going to print in the future. charles payne is with me. you caught an

out would raise a whole lot of legal issues, i think. >> congressman john to brief you on this lois lerner fifth amendment. they revoked that. he will bring her back. she gave her opening statement. i want to ask you, what you know right now, do you think lerner was the quarterback behind these attacks on the conservative groups or do you think there is somebody else that was really pulling the strings? >> well, that's why we need her to come in and answer questions. she says she is still on employee by the irs, paid by the very taxpayers she targeted. she exercised her first amendment right. we need her. she is at the eye of the storm. we need her there to answer questions. i don't know if there are others involved. we know she at the eye of the storm. she should come in and answer questions like any public servant should. >> why hasn't she been fired? >> i think it's personnel rules. i share jim's frustration that we didn't get full answers from her. i was a little dispiepted. -- disappointed. she served her interest and took the fifth amendment when mr. issa started asking questions. so

because there will be held to pay. >> later the former irs directoe was asked why lois lerner was awarded performance bonuses while her office was the subjece of an inspector general probe. b >> miss lerner who is the header of it, got the total of $740,000 between 2009, and 2012 over $42,000 in bonuses. >> i didn't individual maket inu decisions but i probably signedi off on overall agency. >> and have you participated -- >>> after hours of testimony,, republicans and democrats remained unmoved bit irs denials. prompting more questions and d more hearings in the weeks ahead. >>> and we also learned today as the house oversight and reformfm committee will be holdingtee il another hearing with the newew acting irs commissioner aboutmmi what he is going to do to to address the scandal.. brian. >>> the news edge on virginia. i an investigation underway afterf a sheriff's deputy from arlington allegedly shot and and killed a young man on lin havene drive in alexandria overnight. v the victim is 22-year-old july2d an dawkins.ins. he was attending a party for his cousin who just signed with the

tonight, new evidence that should make lois lerner worried. the latest is next. house companies on a new you mission. they want to know did attorney general holder mislead, even lie to congress. you will hear what the house judiciary committee will do from a member of the committee coming up. plus, congressman jason chaffetz admitting he is nervous about giving a big speech. what gets him so rattled? we admit this is a bit nerve rattling. we will tell you, coming up. as your life changes, fidelity is there r your personal economy, helping you readjust along the way, refocus as careers change and kids head off to college, and revisit your investments as retirement gets closer. wherever you are today, fidelity's guidance can help you fine-tune your personal economy. start today with a free one-on-one review of your retirement plan. make a wish! i wish we could lie here forever. i wish this test drive was over, so we could head back to the dealership. [ male announcer ] it's practically yours. test drive! but we still need your signature. volkswagen sign then drive

why is lois lerner working at the irs today? >> well, i think it's important to find the facts before you hold people accountable. that's why the president through second lew has instructed a new acting commissioner on the job today to institute a 30-day review. we have, as our starting point, the inspector general's audit. clearly identifies improper conduct. >> now that acting commissioner, of koushs, danny warfol, the person that the president put into place. that clock has started ticking then today on the 30-day review. on one hand you could say the administration now believes it's putting someone in place who's going to clean house at the irs. on the other hand, you're going to undoubtedly have critics saying that this gives the administration another 30 days to stall before they actually turn the page on this andal. >> ed scandal. >> ed enry, tyou very much. >>> this month senator john thundol says there's a lot we don't know. now is not the time to expand its powers into health care and the hiring of some 16,000 agents w

and for my loser i end with lois lerner. i think we covered ms. shannon: steve, how about you? >> my loser is eric holder for reasons that have been discussed at some length. i will focus on my winner. my winner is actually my younger brother dan who is 30 years old and the veterans that he spruces us to in his newly released film called honor flight. it's a great film. best documentary i have ever seen. is he my brother. i'm not objective but it's a phenomenal film and dan and his team at free think media told the important story of these veterans, the sacrifices they made and their trips back to washington to honor them. >> shannon: i am not related to him and i auto mailed you when i saw it and said it is the best documentary. what a great weekend to watch it if people haven't seen it. it was a great job. charles? >> in that spirit i nominate rosen, our own james rosen. >> shannon: for winner or loser? [ laughter ] >> winner. >> shannon: i wanted to make sure. >> coming off the winner. you know. >> shannon: he is our winner. >> the fact that no

d top irs official lois lerner outmart the congress? she took the fifth, but only after getting out her own message. >> i have not done anything wrong. i have not broken laws, broken irs rules or regulations. i've been advised by my counsel to assert my constitutional right not to testify or answer questions related to the subject matter of this hearing. >> she just testified. she just waived her fifth amendment right to privilege. you don't get to tell your side of the story and then not be subjected to cross-examination. that's not the way it works. she waived her right to the fifth amendment privilege by issuing an opening statement. she ought to stand here and answer our questions. >> sir, you misled congress, misled congress. make no question about it. you told us one thing, when you learned that our suspicions were true, when you learned that there was a list, you did nothing. >> you sure you didn't talk to "ñ the white house about this issue, mr. shulman? >> about singling out conservative groups for special scrutiny? >> well, th

lois lerner is dead woman walking. she doesn't have anything to hide. why does she have to take the fifth amendment because guess what? there's criminal activity afoot, people. that's a fox news alert for today, and they are ducking and running for cover. they should. i hope they're diligent and get after this. >> eric, can i ask you about this article in the american spectator? it's been reported that the irs union chief, colleen kelly. >> right. >> met with president obama on march 30th, 2010 in a face-to-face meeting. >> even worse. >> the day after it looks like they began the irs targeting tea party groups. >> according to the inspector general who picked out april 1st as the day they started this process, right. according to the white house logs, miss kelly visited the white house. now, what did she talk about? by the way, it says visited the president. i don't know. who else? i'll give you another one. jack lew who used to be chief of staff tor president obama who now heads the treasurery that oversees the irs. tie ratyrannical governments seo bo

is he outraged then that lois lerner is taking the fifth? >> bill: white house pounded over the irs scandal. we will show you what happened to jay carney. >> i don't think obama had anything to do with it you know, maybe he didn't. sometimes things go wrong. >> bill: jesse watters goes into obama territory. will the president supporters stand by their man? >> you didn't have a lot/áiw of high hopes for transparency to begin with? >> no. it's the u.s. government. >> bill: also tonight, dennis miller going wild over the irs. caution, you are about to enter the no spin zone. the factor begins right now. >> bill: hi, i'm bill o'reilly. thanks for watching us tonight. the irs scandal getting even more intense. that is the subject of this evening's talking points memo. today, the woman in charge of the irs department of tax exempt organizations refused to testify in front of the house oversight committee. >> i have not done anything wrong. i have not broken any laws. i have not violated any irs rules or regulations. and i have not provided false i

lois lerner in 2011 in june of 2011 learned there was a problem. she tried to correct it. corrected it ineffectively. in 2012, she began to brief the committee from february up through april of 2012. chairman issa accused her in a letter the other day of committing false statements, accused her of a crime. so when you're accusing someone of a crime, any attorney will tell the witness to invoke the fifth amendment, but it has absolutely no invocation of the central story, nobody outside the subordinates in the irs had knowledge, activity or involvement. >> and a time when congress understood the most effective investigation is criminal investigation by the fbi, that's already going on, and the only thing congress could do by eliciting her testimony is compromise that investigation. but we will have more on that as we cover this. julian epstein, thank you very much for joining us tonight. >> thank you, lawrence. >>> coming up, the latest from oklahoma governor mary fallin will join me. >>> in london today, gruesome murder of a british soldier in broad daylight called a terro

for lois lerner she is trying to take the position she has done nothing wrong.e heard her say that and there is going to be a the although more scrutiny on details here coming forward. >> i used to work in the government, we used to call it powell's law. the first reports and first accounts are never accurate and never complete. what we are seeing here is the second and third reports are also not complete and not accurate. this is bad. they have to stop as best they can and get the story together. >> then moving on to this one. >>> president obama has ordered the justice department to review its guidelines when it comes to investigations involving reporters. it comes a bid new revelations that attorney general eric holder signed off on a search warrant to seize reports from rosen. an after the said rosen had solicited and encouraged a source to disclose documents and intelligence information relating to north korea's nuclear program. the search warrant for rosen's communications which were approved by holder in the spring of 2010 fell under the espionage act. >>

tonight, new evidence that should make lois lerner worried. the latest is next. house companies on a new you mission. they want to know did attorney general holder mislead, even lie to congress. you will hear what the house judiciary committee will do from a member of the committee coming up. plus, congressman jason chaffetz admitting he is nervous about giving a big speech. what gets him so rattled? [ stewart ] this is the kind of food i love to cook. i'm very excited about making the shrimp and lobster pot pie. we've never cooked anything like this before. [ male announcer ] introducing red lobster's seaside mimatch. combine any 2 of 7 exciting choices on one plate for just $12.99! like new cheddar bay shrimp lobster pot pie, and new parmesan crunch shrimp. plus salad and unlimited cheddabay biscuits. combine any 2 for just $12.99. [ stewart ] for the seaside mix & match, we're really mixing it up. there's just so many combinations to try. i'm stewart harrington, red lobster line cook, and i sea food differently. lets you connect up to 25 devices on one easy to

the irs violated the rights of americans for two years. >> much of the investigation is on lois lerner who is accused of lying or misleading congress. lerner responded to a planted question that the oirs was targeting conservative organizations. lerner took the fifth yesterday and said she has not provided false information. >> i have not done anything wrong. i have not broken any laws. >> but expressing that defense chairman issa told fox, i think that testimony was germane. and issa concluded that her fifth amendment assertion is not valid. the top democrat said it probably will not be productive. >> show had a right and asserted her right and i don't know what bringing her back in is going to accomplish. >> the house democrat leader said she wishes lerner would talk. >> i think the american people deserve worries and i wish she would have provided them. >> senator mitch mcconnell said employees were taking cues from the labor leaders. >> it is system far more systemic than that and it shouldn't surprise anybody. >> late today senators john mccain is not a new letter calling on him t

i think lois lerner -- somebody should have outlawyered her. and the idea she is getting paid full time without having to do any work is going to bug some people, but at least she is off the job and is not there involved in any way with the mishandling of those files, income tax files. >> the irony she is the one who discovered it in the beginning, told the employ yes, sir to change the criteria. not to do it anymore. they stopped for a while and went back and did it and she awkwardly tried to get it out during this bar association speech. she is the picture of the bungling bureaucrat but probably has some civil service protections that is in issue here. these are career employ yaes except for the two appointed at the top, the general counsel and the general -- sort of the leader of the irs. these are career civil servants. it's not that easy to cashier whenever you want. and we want there to be distance between the white house and the irs n. a way they're not like dire directly right on top of telling them what to do. >> do you really think th

lois lerner started triggering three important steps to get to a special counsel.s whether a criminal investigation is warranted. well, if you plead the fifth amendment, after you say of course you have nothing to hide, you're, in essence, calling for -- at least illustrating or telling your -- the people in america that actually criminal investigation isÑ9y+w)anted. the second thing is whether or not it's in the public interest. well, clearly it is in the public interest. the third thing is whether or not the doj has a conflict. we know as of now -- i mean eric holder in many ways has acted like a political hack, ruling over a culture of lawlessness. we have all of the conditions at this point for a special prosecutor. she helped make that happen today. >> sean: i was watching her today very, very closely. i'm thinking, all right, you're claiming you're innocent. why can't you just tell the truth about what happened without hurting yourself? then i started thinking, does she feel threatened? does she feel someone might damage her? is she protecting somebody? why e

expected to testify and be invited to this hearing will be russell george, the inspector general and lois lerner and also neil roland the deputy treasury of the treasury. and the former irs commissioner will also be invited to testify at that hearing on wednesday of next week. they're going to announce that later this morning. that will join a long list of other congressional hearings, house, ways and means is expected to look into this, as well as over on the senate side, the permanent select committee on investigation. so now we have at least three committees here that will be digging into this irs hearing and what i am told about this oversight committee hearing is that aides will be looking into the question of where did this all begin?

can't do anything about lois lerner, nobody can.sort of gross mismanagement of her job. that's a process that needs to be proven and adjudicated. until that happens. there is really not much we can do about it we can all stomp our feet and wish she was gone. there is not much we can do. >> jamie: tony, her supervisor asked for her resignation. >> she is not compelled to take it unfortunately. that's what we are in the midst of seeing. if she were somebody who had a degree of integrity or ethics she would resign or again is he very least agree not to take pay while there was an investigation or at the very least agree to be an active participant in these hearings. the government has the congress rather has this oversight role. now, she is saying i did nothing wrong. well then what are you hiding by invoking your fifth amendment privilege? unlike most sandals or controversies, it's not a matter did something wrong happen or what actually wrong happened. we know what happened and we know if it happened. we need to know why and how it h