just a reminder that my guest on the show today is telling me wheeler co-founder of the lonely planet travel guide book. over all these. here is what was the reaction of travel agents you have the traditional guys that made money and travel business because you were at least for the first couple of years you were there the airplanes i mean the people who spoiled their business mileage i don't think we did i think very often we actually pushed more people towards them that people who weren't going to travel at all were suddenly saw a hey i'd like to go to this place i'd like to i'd like to see it myself so we i think in many ways we worked with travel agencies i think the thing that's really changed travel agencies has been things like internet booking and the airlines not wanting to deal with travel agencies anymore i think there's been other factors apart from guidebooks i think i books very often are working hand in hand with travel agencies did you ever do any advertising like somebody like a country where i. didn't do something about how small we were we've always refused to do that with our f