and everybody realized that he was the spy in the midst in los alamos.and feynman later joked that he should have been the spy because he was the one who violated security all the time but it was really that quiet friend who really turned out to be the spy. so, when i was involved in the h-bomb project for a couple of years. and witnessed by air, the first test of an h-bomb. and then when the project was winding down, he was given a secret report which investigated how much he knew about the bomb and maybe whether he knew about the h-bomb or not because they start talking about the h-bomb at los alamos. and they called it the super bomb. had certain ideas for it. the question was, did the soviets know from him anything about the h-bomb? that was a question and wheeler was commuting for traveling to d.c. and he brought the report with him. which is kind of a no-no as a classified report. when the train arrived in the station, it arrived something like 3 am. and as a convenience, they lowered the lights and said if you want you can sleep until 6 am when mo

and in fact, all of the instrumentation, sort of receive -- reminded me when i got to los alamos.lectronics. this its a reactor not good for producing electricity, but very good for making plutonium. >> after showing him the reactor, the north koreans took him to a building where they claimed to be reprocessing spent fuel from the reactor into weapons grade plutonium. >> they just sthoed howed me th facility. said, you have to believe us, we extracted plutonium. >> did you believe them? >> the answer was yes. but i didn't let them think that i believed them. >> soap hecker's guide and director of the nuclear complex, offered to show him the plutonium. >> they bring in. a revved metal box, yea big. this thick. they open the metal box. they take out a white wooden box. white wooden box has a slide off top. they slide off the top. i look in there. the director says, over here, this glass jar, that's our product. that's the plutonium. >> you know plutonium when you seep it? >> plutonium by itself, silvery color if not oxidized. if it was ox dietz dietzed, gra black. >> this is what pl

everybody realized that he was the spy in the midst of los alamos. he should've been the spy it because he is the one that violated security all the time. who really turned out to be the spy. with the h-bomb project for a couple years and witnessed by air the first test of an h-bomb and then when the project was winding down he was given a secret report which investigated how much they knew about the bomb and maybe they whether or not they knew about the h-bomb or not. they had called the super bomb. and had certain ideas for it. the question was did they know from him anything about the h-bomb. that was the question in wheeler was commuting or traveling to dc and he brought the report with him. it was, -- kind of a no-no. when the train arrived in union station and has the convenience they lowered the lights. so wheeler fell asleep and when he got up the papers were gone. who took these classified papers. they found out about this. by that time they had switched gears and was back in being a professor at princeton and looking into gravity. so it did

. >> martin: for 11 years, sig hecker had been director of los alamos national laboratory, birthplaceamerican atomic bomb. so he was more than a little surprised when in 2004 he was invited on a tour of north korea's nuclear complex. >> hecker: there's no way in the world they're going to let me in. by the way, i also thought the u.s. government wouldn't let me go, but it turns out i was wrong on both accounts. >> martin: the north koreans took him to a place called yongbyon, where they had been operating a small nuclear reactor. >> hecker: i would call it primitive but functional. and in fact, all of the instrumentation sort of reminded me when i first got to los alamos in 1965, you know, no modern electronics or anything of that nature. this is a reactor that was not very good for producing electricity, but it was very good for making plutonium. >> martin: after showing him the reactor, the north koreans took him to a building where they claimed to be reprocessing spent fuel from the reactor into weapons-grade plutonium. >> hecker: they just showed me the facility and basically said

herb your new is the first head of livermore laboratory design laboratory which was a rival to los alamos, he later said to livermore in a talk in the 80s, it was about 82 or 83, he said when nuclear winter was to start that he could have that in his talk and he said how many weapons does it actually take to deter nuclear attack? he said well, one. or 10. if you want to have extra. he said then he went at it from another point of view. he said how many deaths should a single human leader be able to inflict as a capability? he said supposedly, it will take the number of deaths in world war ii about 60 million . and you could do that now with a nuclear weapon in one day. he said okay, how many would that take? 100. it might take 100. you could say 200 but it's closer to 100. let's say, start auditory nuclear attack of 110 to 100. but i believe it would be closer to one then it is 200. in 1952 we had 1000 fusion warheads. when he left office eight years later , we had 23,000 weapons, most of them thermonuclear weapons, many of them 1000 times more powerful. 23,000. at the height in the 60s f

herb york a first head of liver mother laboratory design laboratory which was a rival to los alamos concentrate on that. but he later said to livemore in the 80s by coins e dense it was about '82, '83 when nuclear winter was discovered but he didn't have that in his talk and he said how many weapons does he'll take to actually deter nuclear attack? he said well, one. or ten. you know if you want to have extra for some survive and he went ahead from another point of view he said -- how many deaths should this single human leader be able to inflict as a capability? he said well suppose we take just speck islatively here the number of deaths in world war ii about 60 million. ... eisenhower came in and when he left office we had 23,000 weapons, most of them are more nuclear weapons, many of them 1000 more times powerful than hirsheema. 23,000. and the height of the 60s for the u.s. and that was under just 37,000 nuclear weapons. the russians didn't have as many then but they came to have another 35,000 weapons. together 70,000 weapons in the world. now, what do you say about this? what would the ef

bringing germans into los alamos for the manhattan project. but that is one of the issues. >>host: that is one of the themes? >> growing up in flagstaff where i believe red white anded blue served in the army and iraq and recruited into the cia. it never occurred to him is ethnic background is subject torr manipulation but both of the chinese who try to manipulate and for some americans it ends up being central as the story comes to realize that people see him in the way that lets readers describe. >>host: is that true of the intelligence community that somebody's nationality and always eager to use those cultural skills from those case officers working the soviet file for those who speak arabic. so where they were drawn into that. but the danger to see in stereotypical ways. like this set but not that set. but women for decades felt given those responsible rules to be a part of what the cia does they were not encouraged to go out to recruit spies. they felt limited that is another theme through the novel. that in a sense he was robbed because of her gender. >> do you start

wherever they come from, and others who say it is too valuable, you wouldn't have brought germans into los alamos during the manhattan project so they need controls. that is one of the issues of debate. >> host: americanism is questions. >> harris chain, our hero, grew up in flagstaff, arizona, i bleed red, white and blue, served in the army in iraq, recruited into the cia, feels entirely american. never occurred to him is that ground would be subject to manipulation and he finds in the course of the book that both for the chinese who try to manipulate him using his ancestry and for some americans in the intelligence community doubt him because of his ancestry, ends that being central to his experience, deeply upsetting as a person and that is where the arc of his story is coming, to realize people see him in a way he doesn't see himself and by the end of the book, readers describe, he is the quantum spy. >> host: has that been true in the intelligence community since the 40s or whenever that somebody's nationality or their heritage can affect how they are viewed? >> i think our intelligence comm