luis lerner is put on administrative leave with pay. why is this a terrible punishment? >> according to senator tonight is that the acting commissioner asked her to resign and she did not. i suspect that is the process. can you fire her? >> it is the process which is why you have a congress which ought to fundamentally overhaul the whole system. how many different people have their hands on having fundamentally violated the legitimacy of our tax system. everyone of those people should be fired. the union representative who met with president obama. the union representative for irs workers plays a major role in disciplinary problems. this is the opposite of responsible self-government. >> is this new? do we drop this in the lap of president obama who you say is a weak manager? can he be blamed for this? >> this is not an obama scandal. it is a point made very brilliantly in a column by the washington post what is frightening about the benghazi mess is watching the bureaucracy. what you see is a level of incompetence in our national security system. when you look at fast a

lerner. my opinion, he has to appoint a special counsel, here's my basic bottom line. i have nothing against jack luibut he is an obama guy. i'd like to see a special counsel who's completely independent to oversee, to oversee the entire restructuring and changing and firing to get rid of the corruption. >> applies conspiracy, certainly, there was a great deal of incompetence. do we know which it was more of? >> you know, reading the inspector general's report and reading reports about the report, gee, whiz, i don't think this was about incompetency. i think this was politically directed by a growing number of people that we are learning about. some are even pressured by senators who don't like the campaign finance laws. i think you've got the map, there have to be massive firing. >> although they went after the smallest guys, not the guys who necessarily had a lot of money. where as the big money -- >> some of these tea party groups, we had bill henesee on, some of these groups pretty darn influential. is that a secret that's a conservative group? i would think not. you've got to play by the rules.