and my mom answers the phone, and she goes hey -- yeah, shhhhh, it's luther. yes, luther? luther had found andy less than a mile away from our home. >> reporter: james wrote a book called "my life with luther." >> luther almost caused a gas shortage during the carter administration. what happened? >> yeah, exactly. what luther says people believe. luther went on the radio and said we have this gas shortage and be ware, we need to go fill up. well, everybody did that. and by the end of the day, we were -- there wasn't a drop of fuel in or around chattanooga. >> reporter: in the tennessee luther [ technical difficulties ] >> i don't listen to the radio. i'm sorry. >> reporter: she doesn't listen to your show. everyone in chattanooga listens to your show except your wife. >> yeah. >> reporter: they got married in 1957 and still live in the same house they loved into almost 60 years ago. >> we met in church. i knew his mother way before i knew him. >> reporter: when you knew he was a radio personality, did you have second thoughts? >> maybe i should have. no, i didn't change m

and my mom answers the phone, and she goes hey -- yeah, shhhhh, it's luther. yes, luther? luther had found andy less than a mile away from our home. >> reporter: james wrote a book called "my life with luther." >> luther almost caused a gas shortage during the carter administration. what happened? >> yeah, exactly. what luther says people believe. luther went on the radio and said we have this gas shortage and be ware, we need to go fill up. well, everybody did that. and by the end of the day, we were -- there wasn't a drop of fuel in or around chattanooga. >> reporter: in the tennessee ko grandkids later, still in love? >> still in love. yeah, i wouldn't trade him for anything. >> i wouldn't trade you for anything either. >> oh, come on. >> honey. >> reporter: luther's long-term loyalty goes beyond his marriage, every tuesday he has lunch with the same group of friends going back decades. >> the man knows radio. he loves his work, he should keep going. >> reporter: yeah. >> i think it's great. >> and some of the people actually love you. >> i guess so i don't know. >> rep

luther is amazed and everybody is. luther senses an opportunity. if he wants to take his message of reform to the public, he can have his message distributed without having to do much. so he follows up with a series of pamphlets written in german, rather than latin so more people could understand them. and he writes in straightforward german so people in the different parts of the german speaking land would be able too understand him. and he gives the text to the printer in his town directly. no money changes hands. he says, here you go. the printer prints a thousand copies. they go to the nearby town, another one from luther. print another thousand copies and so on. and it ripples. ask for several years lose their has this campaign that essentially he is using the fact that the printers and the audience or collectively amplifying his message. they're handling the distribution for him. they're recommending it to their friend, and if you have a message that people are interested in, that people want to headquarters that people want to recommend to t

luther said about this. set it up and so that was the -- but it was sort of an older custom that he built on the evergreen at the very dead of winter. >> i heard he preached 2,000 sermons on christmas. >> really? how many did you breach? >> oh, probably 40. >> luther and the everybody greens -- he also brought in the christmas wreath. and that idea is again a evergreen, a circle. some would say it maybe had some druid ideas of the circle of life. and then really in the 19th centuries, somebody took the wreath and it became popular and they put it with candles, the advent wreath. so it becomes a lot more religious. so each sunday -- and this goes into traditions, if you're going to church, what are you going to -- what are you going to see? i'll pause a minute and say that i think what's important -- you have to remember what you don't know and you have to know the meaning of what you do to really get it. and if you don't know it, it's hard to plug in. my grandson is six-and-a-half years old. i was putting hi

martin luther king jr. was a christian but said i want to use my christianity to work toward a just nation, not use as a pretext to justify bigotry against everybody else in the nation. >> what's interesting, it does play into sort of the persecution narrative you do see on the right. the sense we're being persecuted. there is a war on christmas, our free speech. even though no government, let's just be clear, there is no government that intervened to do anything to phil robertson. these were private companies. >> absolutely right. and look. not only are they talking about persecution, but they're putting up their own nails. they're climbing up their own tree and hanging up by themselves. ain't nobody hosting them up there. they're saying look at me, because i'm raised up and look at me being a victim here. so the victim mentality is amazing. they're always talking to left wing people or progressives or liberals or black people or women saying stop that victim mentality. who is a bigger victimizer than -- s

see that's the cultural conditioning that i'm talking about earlier is so martin luther king was. a radical i mean martin luther king was outspoken about economic justice both for blacks and whites he was outspoken about union rights he wanted spoken he was outspoken about american imperialism you know aggressively outspoken are going to all that stuff has been glossed over each why oppose the vietnam war exactly all that stuff has been glossed over in the in general in the corporate media and in the characterizations of martin luther king and it's all been turned into oh it's just about summarized i'm so proud of you and so happy that you are one of the few . television and political analysts that has acknowledged that it will be thank you and in the fifty seconds ago left here how do we avoid that happening with nelson mandela you don't the reality is you don't you have programs like this you have people who understand the. st understand history you got to remember you talk them out of two generations that have parents that don't know the history now that this fascinating this n

the that's the cultural considering it on top and it really is so martin luther king was. a radical i mean martin luther king was outspoken about economic justice both for blacks and whites here as outspoken about union rights human rights spoken he was outspoken about american imperialism aggressively outspoken on american and other all that stuff has been glossed over each wire opposed the vietnam war exactly all the stuff has been glossed over in the in general in the corporate media in the characterizations of martin luther king and it's all been turned into oh it's just about all right i'm so proud of you and so happy that you are one of the few. television political analyst that has acknowledged it well thank you and in the fifty seconds ago last year how do we avoid that happening with nelson mandela you don't the reality is you don't you have programs like this you have people who understand the history understand history you got to remember you talk him out of two generations of pants that don't know the history now they're fascinating this new movies out mandela

martin luther king, as well as nelson mandela? >> i would say that my uncle was always a peaceful warrior. he fought for peace, justice. he wanted to end oppression. but he held on to that his whole life. of course, nelson mandela only acquired some of those qualities later in life. however, i believe they both went through the fire. i believe that they were forged to be leaders and to resist oppression, and martin luther king, jr. fought for that here in america, and nelson mandela fought so hard in south africa, but those two movements did finally meet, and i think that was their commonality. >> i think both of these men were nobel peace prize winners. both remarkable in that they overcame extraordinary odds of racism, and in for nelson mandela, national apartheid. when he came out of prison he came out different. filled with humility and grace and a gentleness he took with him when he was elected to office and worked with the very people who villainized him for a all of his life. how does a person come to the place where they c

first question the other day was plaintively, is it really true martin luther king was only 5-6? [laughter] yes. the next question. yes, sir. >> i want to compliment you on a gorgeous, eloquent speech full of wisdom really. one just has to listen and be totally impressed. and i think the most ironic thing with your speech is that the people who can benefit the most who work about 300 yards from where you are speaking are not here to listen as we did to a beautiful speech. thank you. >> thank you. [applause] just one quick comment on that. members of congress didn't show up at the march on washington 50 years ago either. there were only a couple. in 1963 what they did instead was that they had a quorum call to spread upon the pages of the record the names of anybody who was not there, because they wanted to attack anybody who showed up at this march. never be convinced that the march on washington 50 years ago was a warm and fuzzy event. there were riot troops stationed all around. they canceled elective surgery, and to me, the most amazing -- and they eliminated, they banned liqu

martin luther king jr.t for that here in america and nelson mandela fought so hard in south america. those movements did finally meet and i think that was their commonality. >> i think they were both noble peace prize winners and they overcame racism, and when he came out of friday, you mention thad he came out a very different man. he was stilled with humility, grace, and gentleness that he took with him when he went to office. he ended up working with the very people that villainized him for all of his life. how does a person come to the place where they can put aside the bitterness, hurt, and all of the offenses they have receive todd do that. >> as you ask that question, i think about my own father reverend a.d. king, who when hi uncle, martin luther king jr. was killed, i wanted to hate somebody and strike out at somebody. he said you case hate white people, you can't hate any people, it's the devil and we have to fight the devil. martin luther king jr. always said i will not stoop so low that men will

of course, everybody is mandela to gandhi and martin luther king, although neither of them was in favor of violence, but nelson mandela went to violence not to take over the country, but to get the white minority regime to listen to the demands of black people, but even as late, early in '64, martin luther king was calling for nelson mandela's release. in 1965, he spoke in london, and called for internal sanctions. he echoed that in the '80s and, of course you know, the free south african movement in which president obama spoke of being a part of as a young student was very much a part of the ultimate number of things that brought a man to apartheid in south africa. i was u here in '85, and as you said, it was a gruesome, gruesome period, and i went to a hilltop so that i could overlook the prison where they said nelson mandela had a garden that he used to tend, and i was so hoping, if i couldn't see him, i could see the garden, but, of course, i was followed by state security people an d had to leae in a hurry. >> well, there you are. pictures of you, the young woman, sitting down with

and so eras husband, a contemporary of luther's, says this. he's very worried because everyone is reading these pamphlets that luther is writing. they're very short, easy to read because they're in german. no one's reading the greek and roman authors, he thinks this is terrible, a terrible coarsening of the intellectual debate. we get it with twitter now that people say, oh, it's terrible that thin can say just anything. but i think this is good. i think it's broadening access of publishing to more and more people, and it's democratizing access to publishing. now, clearly what happens each time you have one of these expansions is that it initially appears to be completely unmanageable, and it takes some time to work out the mechanisms for sifting the stuff you really want to see from the stuff you don't. the printing press made it much easier to publish books and there was an explosion of publishing. people felt overwhelmed. there were complaints of information overload in the 1500s because of this. in the centuries after that, people came up

but the difference now is that when luther lived, the printing press was changing europe. he understood that. but then western culture had about 300 years to adapt itself to the printing press. so we developed new forms of economic life, new political ideas, new notions about education -- all organized around the printing press. but in our own time, our situation is much more difficult to cope with because almost daily, it seems, new technologies come on the scene and our social institutions don't have time to assimilate them and reorganize themselves to accommodate the demands of the technology. as soon as you start to do that, some new technology comes to make that one obsolete, so everyone is in quite a state of confusion. the reason i call america the first technopoly is that more than any other culture that i can think of, we have committed ourselves to technology. our destiny now is tied up with technology. by the way, the germans and the japanese and even the koreans would dearly love to become technopolies and are moving very rapidly in the direction of american cu

luther gets 10. yes, that's on kathleen's record. never once anywhere before then or the next 15 years was there any record she was arrested for prostitution, ever warned about being a prostitute. she bunge old crime, she never should have tried to commit it. charles manson was not the child of a prostitute. not then, not ever. he goes to live in west virginia. a little factory town with hiss uncle bill, aunt glenna, and cousin jo ann who was three years older. i found jo ann, who has never talked before. and if you get a chance to look in the book. you'll see that the photograph section includes pictures of manson from his baby pictures and his wetting album. those come from jo ann and nancy. they tell the real story. here is an interesting one jo ann told me about charlie. he said from the time he came tow live with them 5 years old he's scary. he's violent, he lies about everything. the first person he ever physically attacked was jo ann. he picked up a sickle in the backyard and tried to stab her. her parents stopped him. his exp

the united states was martin luther king who had one great advantage that mandela did not have. martin luther king could connect aspirations to vocabulary of the natural rights philosophy of the declaration in which he could say our racial practices are discourted with our practices. mandela didn't have that fall back on making his achievement remarkable. what could have been algeria, a simmering war became a peaceful transition of circumstances. >> you heard remarks about mandela. he referenced him many times and says he's an inspiration to him. you wonder if there are leaders out there like mandela to be had. >> mandela is in the category of martin luther king, jr. those type of people don't come along very often. there's many remarkable things about him but in particular when you consider how he was treated as a captive and comes out. for 18 years of captivity he was allowed to see one person a year 30 minutes, send one letter and receive a letter every six months. most of us would have gone crazy. by the time we left we would have hated the people who kept us captive. he was

. >> your friend martin luther king jr. had an impact on the world as well. what was the connection between these two leaders. >> both of them are fighting apartheid systems. out of king was the "65 act. redefining the laws. 18-year-olds couldn't vote. you couldn't go on college campuses or go bilingually. the coalition led to the sanctions against south africa, set to free nelson mandela, and free south africa. they are aware of our kinship. >> reverend jessie jackson. president obama paid tribute to the life of nelson mandela. he ordered flags to be flown at half staff at the white house and federal facilities. let's go to mike viqueira. the president had a lot to say about nelson mandela, right. >> he did. it's no secret to anyone that follows the career that this man was an inspiration to him throughout his life and as a matter of fact inspired him to get into politics. president obama told the story how as a young student he was never interested in politics until he got to college and ended up at public rallies, antiapartheid rallies on campus. worked on

but even early in '64, martin luther king was calling for nelson mandela's release. in 1965, he spoke in london and called for internal sanctions. he echoed that in the '80s. and, of course, as you know, the free south africa movement in which president obama spoke about being a part of as a young student was very much a part of the ultimate number of things that brought an end to apartheid in south africa. i was here in '85. and as you said, it was a gruesome, gruesome period. and i went to a hilltop so that i could overlook the prison where they said nelson mandela had a garden that he used to tend. and i was so hoping, if i couldn't see him, i could see the garden. but, of course, i was followed by state security people and had to leave in a hurry. >> there you are, pictures of you, as a young woman sitting down with nelson mandela. >> that was at the council on foreign relations when he made his first visit to new york. >> we're going to listen in here. this is number two man in the anc. he's gone on to be a successful businessman here in south africa. so we'll j

joining me will be martin luther king iii.ng fight for rights. stay with us. [ bells dinging ] ♪ hark how the bells, sweet silver bells ♪ ♪ all seem to say throw care away ♪ ♪ from everywhere, filling the air ♪ [ female announcer ] chex party mix. easy 15-minute homemade recipes you just pop in a microwave. like caramel chocolate drizzles. happier holidays. chex party mix. i have a big meeting when we land, but i am so stuffed up, i can't rest. [ male announcer ] nyquil cold and flu liquid gels don't unstuff your nose. they don't? alka seltzer plus night fights your worst cold symptoms, plus has a decongestant. [ inhales deeply ] oh. what a relief it is. >>> welcome back, everybody. just wanted to pass this along, official word from the white house that the president and first lady will be traveling to south africa next week to pay their respects and to honor the memory of nelson mandela participating in the memorial events taking place there. it was yesterday announced by south african president zuma on the 15th of december t

, taking a piece from martin luther king's speech.elson mandela was praised and loved in atlanta. he made the visit because of the civil rights movement. he made a lot of references during that speech to his own country and south africa and the similarities between the civil rights movement in america. >> robert ray in atlanta for us. >> in 1990 nelson mandela visited new york city as we mentioned earlier following his release from prison. thousands gathered in harlem to hear him speak. john this afternoon, what can you tell us? >> a lot of people have been stopping buy just to share memories. as you mentioned it was 1990, 100,000 were in new york city. there was so much anticipation and people remember him stopping and pointing to the apollo theatre. you can see the marquee is up, it's been up since the news came out. it says in memory of nelson mandela, he changed our world. many remember in 1990 when they made the visit they had a marquee saying welcome mr and mrs nelson mandela. it was an electrifying time. there was a huge parade

martin luther king were cell mates.e in a birmingham jail, he in robben island jail. >> and they both sort of helped each other. they both worked on each other's mission. there's a bond there. there's a link between dr. martin luther king jr. and nelson mandela. even though they never met. >> they never met. and king was assassinated long before -- >> 1968. >> yes, before mandela was released from prison. but mandela read about martin luther king. mandela did not go into robben island a nonviolent man. he came out of robben island intent somehow upon bringing his country together in a peaceful revolution. this was a racially torn society. the whole notion that it could come together in peace to solve that problem was beyond anyone's imagination. he did it. >> i assume there'll be a huge congressional delegation that will want to go to south africa. >> certainly. >> have you been hearing about that already? >> well, remember, congress is gone at the moment. when this occurred. >> for this, many members will want to join

he was a man in the mold of gandhi and martin luther king. a revolutionary who spent nearly a third of his life behind bars so his country would be free. flags have been lowered to half-staff in washington and all over the country. reaction has poured in from all corners from global leaders to activists to ordinary men and women remembering nelson mandela. >> our nation has lot of its greatest son. our people have lot of a father. >> let us pause and give thanks to the fact that nelson mandela lived. a man who took history in his hands and bent the ark of the moral universe towards justice. >> thank you for the gift. >> what an extroerdary and inspiring man else in an mandela was. >> going from being in prison on the list of many nations and been the most moral authority in the world was quite a journey. >> he was a stranger to hate. he rejected incrimination in favor of reconciliation and he knew the future demands required that we move beyond the place that he had been. >> let us honor his memory in a dignified way as his leadership they de

he was something of a contemporary with martin luther king, junior and the parallels are rather striking an obvious. both of them believed in something and willing to fight and die for that something. he was the most humble, gentle man and he had an engaging smile. his eyes twinkled and this was a human being who had spent all that time in jail, who had all these difficulties, yet he kept his humanness and was willing to reach out to other parties, and so i was deeply moved every time i met with mr. mandela. but nothing was like his inauguration in may 1994 that i was privileged to attend and i saw there the real nelson mandela who came upon the stage generals ofthe four the south african defense force as his guard of honor which was a symbolic moment where the power of the state was being given to this lack man. oath ofup and gave his office and recognized his jailers in the front row and it was one of the most deeply moving moments in my experience as a diplomat and soldier. i was the first secretary of state that happened to be black. we have to get beyond these labels, depending upon

there are many parallels between nelson mandela and martin luther king jr.. >> thank you very much. >>> actor david hai harewood portrayed nelson mandela. i spoke about how he played such an iconic role and how he prepared for it. >> initially e excited and then deep roll and and then you hit this fear. how do you play a myth. how do you play someone who has been so extraordinary in his life the only way you can approach it is to read as much as you can and watch as much as you can. day after day he revealed himself as the ultimate human being. the ultimate warrior and ultimate soldier. and the more i read the more i got to know him. and he became less of a myth and more of a man. more of a human being. that is his testment. that is his legacy. i was surprised at how much i didn't know the more i started to uncover the struggles of the anc and the struggles of him personally with winnie and that was interesting. because i played him in the movie which was essentially about winnie mandela and i had no idea and i don't think anyone had any idea of all of these smiling shots of him comin

luther is amazed by this and so is everybody else. luther senses an opportunity and realizes if he wants to make the message to the public he can have it distributed without doing much. he follows up with a series of pa pamphlets in german and write straight-forward so people all around could understand him. he gives the text to the printer in the town. the printer prints a thousand copies, they go to nearby town and the printers say it is another one from luther and print another thousand each and so on and so on. it ripples and luther does this for several years waging a campaign using these pamphlets and preaching. he is using the fact they are a amplifying his message. they are recommending it to their friends. if you have a message people want to hear you can get this viral spread. and we recognize it on the internet. but that is what lurther is taking advantage and the result was the split; the reformation. >> how is it different from mass media? >> when you have a social media, whether it is today on the internet or pamphlets i

maybe when we have martin luther king day he will be a white guy.hat everybody has to be included is meritless. >> you are saying that -- you know that martin luther king jr. was not a white guy. he is a black man. scholars are telling you that jesus is not a white man but you won't concede that point? >> i'm saying that hollywood has depicted him that way and the great artists have for hundreds of years. if you have a problem take it up with them. >> hollywood in american movies have made him look american and european artists made him look european. but there is something larger here that connects megan kelly's comments. >> how did megan get into this again. >> what she saying and what a lot of people mean when they say santa or jesus is white is that santa or jesus is mine. >> how would you know what megan kelly thinks? how do you know about megan kelly's motive? how do you know that? >> what i'm saying -- >> you -- >> you just answered the question. what i'm saying is that in the very terminology of the way that we define these icons, whether th

he was something of a contemporary with martin luther king, junior and the parallels are rather striking an obvious. both of them believed in something and willing to fight and die for that something. he was the most humble, gentle man and he had an engaging smile. his eyes twinkled and this was a human being who had spent all that time in jail, who had all these difficulties, yet he kept his humanness and was willing to reach out to other parties, and so i was deeply moved every time i met with mr. mandela. but nothing was like his inauguration in may 1994 that i was privileged to attend and i saw there the real nelson mandela who came upon the stage generals ofthe four the south african defense force as his guard of honor which was a symbolic moment where the power of the state was being given to this lack man. oath ofup and gave his office and recognized his jailers in the front row and it was one of the most deeply moving moments in my experience as a diplomat and soldier. i was the first secretary of state that happened to be black. we have to get beyond these labels, depending upon

(laughter) besides, back people have their own holiday, it's martin luther king day.y the way, for any kids watching at 11:30 at night, martin luther king is black and he is real. (laughter) don't listen to your older siblings. everybody knows that if you're good once a year he comes in while you're sleeping and sprinkles you with dreams. (laughter) then he goes back to his mountain top castle on his flying table of brotherhood saying "merry m.l.k. day to all and to all good deals on mattresses!" we'll be right back. (cheers and applause) (cheers and applause). >> stephen: welcome back, everybody. my guest tonight just won the national book award for his new book "the unwinding." i wonder if i have to read "the winding" first. please welcome george packer! (cheers and applause) hey, george, good to see you again. thanks for coming back. it's been one or six years since you were last here. good to see you. >> good to see you again, too. >> stephen: you're a "new yorker" staff writer. you're the author of "the assassin's gate" which was about america in iraq. now you've

visage i am looking at right now, but you have had a chance to befriend everybody, duboise, martin luthering, paul robeson, nelson mandela. out of all the people you have been friends with and struggled with, what makes nelson mandela so uniquely different? >> the people i have been privileged to serve, nelson mandela was the one i least suspected i would ever come to me, personally. i tried several times when he was incarcerated, to gain the privilege of visiting him, but the system would not permit that. himarted corresponding with while he was in prison. i had come to be aware of him through my mentor, the man who i most admired, paul robeson. e was very close to king against thewas apartheid system in the early day of its presence in south africa. he was the first black man to ever receive the nobel prize. looking at south africa from that prison, i began to become more aware of what the african national congress was doing, and what the leadership was aspiring to do, to make the decisions that would help us fight the struggle that the south african people were fighting in resisting ap

. >> okay, let me ask you, pastor schaffer, do you feel like martin luther, or john wesley, today, whatyour mood? because tomorrow you will be in or out, you can't stay in if they say you're out? >> i tell you what, i never chose this role, but now that i've been pulled into it i actually do feel i stand in the tradition of wesley, who also broke rules or martin luther i do feel the world is looking at me now watching me closely. and i gladly take that baton and carry it for the time being. >> well, martin luther broke up the whole system of europe, the whole nation states sort of followed him in terms of secular life, do you think you can change the methodist church, the church of john wesley? can you change it by your actions on this issue? >> i don't know if i can single-handedly do that, on my part, but i seem to have the attention and i can do the part that i can do, and hope that change can occur. >> we're very big on mavericks as you may have noticed over the years, and thank you for fighting for rights on marriage equality. and having guts, we like that here. all right, thank yo

>> i think he and gandhi and in america martin luther king are in a category by themselves. gandhi and king were martyred. but the agonizing ordeal of nelson mandela for 27 years and how he came out of it a better man than he went in captured the imagination of people as nothing else had. his enduring power is that he showed us that there is true freedom in forgiveness. and in the mental and emotional discipline to live in the present and think of the future. >> part of our conversation with the former president from his home this morning. by the way, the clintons will join the obamas along with george w. bush and laura bush at nelson mandela's memorial services in south africa. president bush senior is unable to make the long journey. former president carter has yet to release his plans. >>> in this country for millions of americans tonight, the news is a massive ice storm churning through the center of the country east of the mississippi river, most of it. several deaths are already being blamed on the storm, and it's going to be a big factor on into the weekend. we begin

social media is a-buzz with who might be playing lex luther. >>> and beyonce makes a little girl's wishtime to check "the pulse." and the new buzz about who might play supervillain lex luther in batman versus superman movie. >> hollywood rumors says denzel washington is a favorite for the role. he has played larger than life roles. he was a bad guy in "training day." winning a best actor oscar. >> he was a bad guy. >> is that right? >>> it was walmart customers. now, it's a cancer patient. beyonce made a girl's dream come true when she sang and danced with her at a recent concert. 12-year-old kelon davis has an inoperable tumor in her brain. >> she song "survivor." and she couldn't believe it. she was shaking. but she managed to sing and dance with beyonce. >>> a christmas miracle for a walmart checkout clerk in omaha, nebraska. >> ethel perkins didn't notice when her diamond ring slipped off when packing a customer's bag. luckily for perkins his wife found the ring ten days later on christmas eve. and took it back to the store. >> hi. >> oh, you're going to make me cry. >> my wife clea

(laughter) besides, back people have their own holiday, it's martin luther king day.ng at 11:30 at night, martin luther king is black and he is real. (laughter) don't listen to your older siblings. everybody knows that if you're good once a year he comes in while you're sleeping and sprinkles you with dreams. (laughter) then he goes back to his mountain top castle on his flying table of brotherhood saying "merry m.l.k. day to all and to all good deals on mattresses!" we'll be right back. (cheers and applause) 7 rjrj,x,x 7t#w;';'a0"j"u:w [uncle]this is hopscotch,okay? uncle go one,two,one,two,one two,one. [niece]okay! [uncle]okay? [niece]one,two three,four,five,six,seven,eight! [uncle laughing] okay,we go the other way,okay? [niece]one,two,three,four,five, six,seven! [uncle laughs]there's ten spaces,you want to try again? [uncle]yeah? (cheers and applause). >> stephen: welcome back, everybody. my guest tonight just won the national book award for his new book "the unwinding." i wonder if i have to read "the winding" first. please welcome george packer! (cheers and appl

. >> this was a project when i saw this photograph at the martin luther king center in atlanta in 1992 and realized that this photograph was iconic representation of the sick and and i knew the woman in the center of the photograph. i had met her through her children 20 years before in arlington virginia when i was a playground director and i knew at that moment in the context of all of the iconic civil rights paraphernalia at the king center this is a story that needed to be told so i decided at that moment to go home and start interviewing my friend and find out about. >> did you recognize her in the picture and had she already talked about this experience and sit in? >> i recognized her in the photograph because the children had a total out on occasion and said my mother is a famous photograph, so why didn't really understand how significant that photograph was until i saw the context. >> and what did you learn about the civil rights movement that you hadn't known before? >> what is interesting about this story is that she is a southern white woman who came to see her family and for

martin luther king.rld away in a sense paralleled those of mandela's. bernice king joins me to talk about it. such a pleasure. nice to have you on. >> thank you, brooke. glad to be here. >> let's begin with when you were 27. it was 1990, and that was the year mandela was released, and you had this realization as a 27-year-old, this man had been in prison your entire life. >> my entire life. >> your entire life, and you decide to go to south africa because you wanted to hear him speak. what were you listening for? >> well, i was listening for any traces of anger, any traces of bitterness, because i was still wrestling at that point with a lot of anger and bitterness in my own life because of my losses. and i just knew this man had to have some. and so i told my mom, i wanted to go to the inauguration. and she said, well, she can't afford to pay for it, and i told her at that time because i had been doing some public speaking, i said, i'll pay for it. i did just that. my own money, and i went to the inaugu

undergrad at luther college. law degree in des moines. he is our guest for the next 40 minutes or so. the numbers are up on the screen. you can also send in a tweet. david, you are the first caller. you are calling from mississippi. please go ahead with your comments for former congressman james nussle. caller: i want to know why we can send so much money overseas and we cannot attach people right here in america who are suffering? why is it always a problem when it comes to helping the poor, but we can send money overseas to people we do not know and for things we have no idea about? thank you. guest: great question. it is a was a balancing act of trying to determine by your deeds. how much goes to programs that help people who cannot help them selves are people who are poor or between jobs? balancing the priorities of foreign policy is an example. trying to ensure that we are safe and our interests around the world are protect it and that we have influence in those areas that are important to us as a nation. the one misnomer i would say

with great leaders like martin luther king and malcolm x, there will be efforts to convert mandela into a very safe character in order to advance the ends of the global elite. the battle over mandela's legacy will not await his burial nor will it await a period of mourning. it happens immediately. and for that reason, how we interpret his life and work will determine which nelson mandela we are actually recognizing and praising. mandela will be missed, but we cannot end our thought there. we must express our appreciation to the creator of all things that this planet was blessed with nelson mandela and those who stood with him in the global elite declared the situation [speaker not understood]. i never thought nelson mandela would be released from jail, and then he appeared in oakland at the oakland coliseum in 1990. that was probably one of the best days of my life. but i just wanted to end with a song, so many songs uplift me from peter gabriel to jerry damers and the special to sun city [speaker not understood] including [speaker not understood], jeffery osborne and others, but i'll j

kathleen and her brother, luther , spectacularly botch an attempted robbery. it tried to use a kitchen bottled and polka in someone's back and say it is again. the newspapers have a great time calling in the 80th ketchup bottle bandits, the greatest dunderheads who have written to the crime. and kathleen gets five years in prison in mexico, west virginia. the ticket stand. yes, that is on kathleen's record. never once anywhere before then or in the next 15 years was there any record she was arrested for prostitution, never warned about being a prostitute. she bundled a crime she never should try to commit. but charles manson was not the child and a prostitute, not the nor ever. he goes to live in make macon, west virginia, a little factory town with his uncle bill, and clinic, and cousin joann who is three years older. i found to win u.s. never talked before. and it if any of you get a chance to look in the book tonight, you will see that the fatah section includes pictures of joe's manson from his baby pictures to his wedding album. those came from joe lane a