and judge luttig, i think it's time.know who has to write the banners at the bottom of my show. i'm sorry in advance. but donald trump broke the rule of law. we should cover a broken judiciary in this country. donald trump managed to delay every federal criminal trial based on facts that he barely denies. donald trump managed to enlist the supreme court in a delay process, the highest court in the land. donald trump brazenly and repeatedly attacks not just judges. i've had the privilege of sitting across not just from you, judge luttig, but from judge esther salas, whose son was assassinated by a crazy person. judges don't have secret service protecting them. they don't even always have -- i mean her child answered the door. what are we going to do different because donald trump sure as hell isn't changing? >> nicolle, thank you for having me with you this afternoon. first, we all should congratulate and thank judge walton for his interview last night, coming forward with the perilous state of the federal judiciary. it t

former federal judge jay michael luttig joins me live, to discuss why he thinks the court decided toup the historical case, how long they will drag this out, and how it all plays into trump's legal strategy of delay. and, the kick the can congress, once again, they bought more time to avoid a government shutdown. and once again, a republican house speaker is feeling the heat from his own conference. congresswoman becca -- of the house budget committee joins me live, to bring us inside the chaos. i'm jonathan capehart, this is the saturday show. ♪ ♪ ♪ we begin this busy saturday evening, with breaking news. our eyes are on michigan, missouri, and idaho, where republicans in those states are holding presidential caucuses today. nbc news projects that donald trump won the most delegates of michigan's nominating convention. all together, between the convention and michigan's primary on tuesday, donald trump won 51 delegates, and nikki haley won four. nbc also projects trump won the missouri republican caucus, picking up 54 delegates. trump is expected to sweep idaho as well. we could get

judge michael, erjay michael luttig, joining us today.a former judge on the united states cordova feels for the fourth circuit. right, r coming, up how the language donald trump is using to talk e about immigration exposes his true agenda. spoiler alert, it has nothing to do with solving any actual immigration policy challenges. plus, later in the show, a conversation about the quiet but dangerous effort to undermine the separation of church and state in america. how it's already working at the damage has already been done. and i'll astake you on a little trip . to donna trumps america. a dark future, that's the only possible, but promised, if he tries to power again. tries to power again. whoa, how did you defeat them? with a little kung fu strength and by connecting my devices to the most powerful force of all. skadoosh. hah, huh? cool right? amazing. harness the power of xfinity internet and stay connected to the things you love. ah, they'll be like this for hours. hello dad, hello dad, hello da. uh-oh. good bunnies. ahh! >>> this morn

li that has been disseminated, judge luttig, that is out there. what, in your view, is the appropriate response? >> that, nicole, is the republican party's nominee for the presidency of the united states in november of 2024. the republican party has enabled donald trump up to this point. for the past 3 1/2 years. and it is determined to enable him for the next eight months, until the election in november. at this point, it remands to be seen. at this very, very late point, nicole, it remains to be seen whether donald trump will prevail in his standoff against america. and it's constitution, it's rule of law, and its institutions of law and democracy. that is an incredible thing to have to make. >> yeah, i feel like some of this is on us, right? because we have political conversations, and you are one of the few people who is part of both of them, but the legal process was part of trump's message, and maybe for too long, -- let's not politicize it, but trump didn't separate them, and when you look at the numbers of people who think that the electio

michael luttig a judge luttig, you predicted that the supreme court would affirm colorado's decision to remove trump from the ballot, calling colorado's decision unassailable in every single respect under the constitution, unquote i guess the justices didn't see it your way. what's your reaction >> today's ruling? jake was both astonishing and unprecedented not for its decision of the exceedingly narrow question presented by the case. though that issue was important but rather for its decision to reach and decide a myriad of the other constitutional issues surrounding disqualification under 14th amendment. in reaching and deciding those questions unnecessarily the court, the majority as the concurrences said effectively, decided that the former president will never be disqualified from holding the presidency in 2024 or ever for that matter but even more importantly as the concurrence said effectively, the court today decided that no person in the future will ever be disqualified under section three of the 14th amendment regardless whether he or she has engaged in insurrection or rebe

i never thought i would say that about professor tribe, judge luttig. it's crazy.the oral arguments were going on and saw the way the tide was running. well, the guy doing the argument is no good. neither side did particularly great job on the arguments. the court decided this case. the court came together. president trump gave a speech today in which he said he hopes this will bring the country together. i would hope so, too. it's a decision that fundamentally says let's decide a presidential race at the ballot box. and that's the way it should be. abe lincoln said people decide elections. and that's the way it should be. this case broke down in two parts basically, they said section 5 of 14th amendment requires congress to pass enabling legislation and that hasn't happened. well, jamie raskin already is talking about trying to pass a bill now. >> laura: i have that. >> too late too little too late. >> laura: i have that let me play this for mike because this was quite something. the supreme court is not going to stop them mike, watch. >> i am working with a numbe

the brilliant michael luttig, judge michael luttig, the conservative judge joins me tomorrow morningwith my friend stephanie ruhle begins right now. ♪ ♪ ♪ >> donald trump is attending a critical hearing in his case involving classified documents found at mar-a-lago. did a juror just a few minutes ago with no resolution on the trial date. >> reporter: just over 500 miles away in atlanta, the judge overseeing the interference case pro trump -- will hear closing arguments this afternoon. >> they seek to disqualify the district attorney and her entire office are using this against donald trump. >> reporter: and hanging above all of this is the court who are looking to take donald trump's claims of immunity

the brilliant michael luttig, judge michael luttig, the conservative judge joins me tomorrow morning at 10 am on velshi. you can see my show saturdays and -- right here on msnbc. the 11th hour with my friend stephanie ruhle begins right now. ♪ ♪ ♪ >> donald trump is attending a critical hearing in his case involving classified documents found at mar-a-lago. did a juror just a few minutes ago with no resolution on the trial date. >> reporter: just over 500 miles away in atlanta, the judge overseeing the interference case pro trump -- will hear closing arguments this afternoon. >> they seek to disqualify the district attorney and her entire office are using this against donald trump. >> reporter: and hanging above all of this is the court who are looking to take donald trump's claims of immunity this april. >> donald trump's full strategies delay, delay, delay. >> i think all the cases should be dealt with before november. because after that, should he become president, i don't think anything is going to get hurt. >> the two front-runners traveling to the southern border making dueling

the brilliant michael luttig, judge michael luttig, the conservative judge joins me tomorrow morningight here on msnbc. the 11th hour with my friend stephanie ruhle begins right now. >> donald trump is attending a critical hearing in his case involving classified documents found at mar-a-lago. did a juror just a few minutes ago with no resolution on the trial date.

that said, this is a break glass moment akin to seeing judge michael luttig testify before the januaryhere he thought donald trump was a clear and present danger to the future of our democracy. to see judge walton, himself a sitting federal judge, not a retired federal judge like judge luttig call attention to the threat environment that federal judges are under was breathtaking. >> and ryan, you've covered this judge before, reggie walton, he's had a lot of january 6th defendants in his courtroom. he says the amount of threats he's received has escalated ever since. what more can you tell us about him, and in fact, the threat to judges all around the country, particularly in trump-related cases? >> yeah, i think judge walton like a lot of judges in the d.c. federal courthouse has been sort of flabbergasted that so many americans that had a law-abiding life before january 6th actually believe donald trump's lies about the election. judges really love facts, right? that's something that they're very big on, here's the facts and here's what actually happened. and to see so many people ju

former federal judge jay michael luttig joins me live, to discuss why he thinks the court decided to

we will see jack smith arguing, and people filing amicus briefs in his support, people like judge luttigalready made this argument in an amicus brief arguing the court should not even take the case, you will be arguing, you don't have to boil the water. you don't have to decide whether, in every circumstance, a president would never be immune for the conduct an within special acts. -- when the actions that are alleged in the indictments are about overturning the results of an election and preventing that transfer of power, surely, that is not within the scope of the official acts of a president. >> this is a remarkably important point you make, because donald trump would like all the courts to believe that he's immune from everything, that is an official act, and there is the number of legal scholar saying that worry about that question. worry about whether this question is the one we have to deal with. catherine, the one case actually seems to have proceed fairly smoothly as the new york case. the trial for that is set to begin in a few weeks. what's your sense of? that is that likely,

the fact that he had to say it it all including from judge michael luttig, who of course, you know, but for those who don't, he's a former federal appeals court judge, and he responded in part saying, quote, it is a regrettable commentary on our times that a loan federal judge referring to judge walton, there because no one whose responsibility it is to do so as had the courage and the will would finally be left no choice, but himself to express it on national television caitlin are really, really important interview. thank you very much for that. stay with us. i also want to bring in seen as senior legal analyst, elie honig as cnn senior law enforcement analyst, andrew mccabe le should this gag order also cover the judges family and what do you make of prosecutors asked you the judge for clarification? >> well, if i think this was a strong reaction by the da's office to trump's ran on truth, social yesterday where he singled out by name the judges daughter. now, i think if you look at the existing limited gag order as it's written, it probably does not technically apply to the family m

because you would think that there are any number of liberal or conservative judges, attorneys michael luttig, for one, who would be willing to take a look at something like this and just give them an extra set of eyes, do a little editing as it were. right? i mean, prosecutors ever do that. oh, my gosh, there's always a >> chain of command here, jake. and this is the kind of mistake that if a first-year prosecutor made, you'd say, okay, we need to do better next time, but let's not let it happen again. and i want to make this point, jake, one of the issues in the other conflict here, the conflict of interest case is that fani willis brought in nathan wade to lead this case, even though nathan wade has never prosecuted a felony trial as a prosecutor. well, this is a rookie mistake and it's not a mistake that anyone who's has any real variance, whatever make >> we're still waiting to hear the judge rule on that and whether or not he's going to disqualify district attorney fani willis over her affair with mr. wade is there reason to be concerned about her handling of this case overall? and do y

and it includes responses from people like for federal judges does including judge michael luttig, a former federal appeals judge, and others who've been taking what he has to say seriously to dalton's warning that trump's actions can lead to tyranny is so his point of view as a judge, not as a member of any party or supporting any campaign. and that's why it has been resonating so much. viktor and amara yeah, sure has been kaitlan collins. thank you so much joining me now with cnn political commentator, errol louis. i mean, errol, it is extremely rare for a sitting judge to give an interview with tv interview and we heard judge walton say though that he's even gotten threats after presiding over these january 6 cases what do you think of what he had to say? the fact that he did sit down and speak out and it really does speak to the moment that we're living in, doesn't it >> oh, absolutely. and look, i'm so glad that the judge said something. the people involved in this case include a district attorney who i've met and interviewed a number of times they they're not walking around in

you should not go anywhere because ali has judge michael j luttig on and he is going to talk about where a very highly revered conservative judge and they're going to get into all of the things now that the supreme court is taking up the presidential immunity question. we will be right back, folks. y. you still go landine in your house. order now in the subway app. whoa, how did you defeat them? you still go with a little kung fu strength and by connecting my devices to the most powerful force of all. skadoosh. hah, huh? cool right? amazing. harness the power of xfinity internet and stay connected to the things you love. ah, they'll be like this for hours. hello dad, hello dad, hello da. uh-oh. good bunnies. ahh! msnbc in the meantime, velshi starts right now. our bestie, taking the, way ali. >> so, let me just stget a. qui you're not the same place. at the not at the table moment, right? >> michael and i are together. in new york. >> alicia is here. >> i'm right here. >> the six feel up better, because earlier this week, someone said to me, the weekend's gonna be in new york, and, unlik

judge nothing short than an act of bravery and, it also raised a question for retired judge michael luttig. the question of why it had to be a sitting judge to be the one to speak out when frankly, there are so many others who could or should no one no one single person in a position of responsibility to >> address this issue has done so for of courage and wat of will and until or unless we as a nation address this issue then we're careening toward the effective end of the rule of law. and in america >> joining me now, former january 6 investigative council, markus childress, and former white house communications director under trump and managing partner of skybridge capital, anthony scare munshi. thank you both for being here. >> during those words from that >> judge, from both judges frankly, is really stunning. but think of where we are. let me ask you first, markus on this, whether you think that trump is baiting the judge here, and if you think that the judge will consider the expansion of her request to broaden the gag order i'm not sure it's that calculated. i think this is just the

i can, i want to start with sharing a bit of a very concerned a former federal judge, michael luttig said, reacting today's decision from the supreme court. watch this. >> the court today decided that no person in the future will ever be disqualified under section three of the 14th amendment regardless whether he or she has engaged in an insurrection or rebellion against the constitution of the united states. it's stunning in its overreach. >> was this a ruling you expect? >> it was the ruling i expected. by the way, pointed correction, that's not what the [inaudible] today. not never. what the court held is that congress has to enact legislation in order for this provision to take some effect. point of correction. in any case, yes, i expected this to happen. this ruling, emil hemus the president was that it was 90 opposed to 72 or a one. this was a long shot challenge from the start. if you familiars with yourself but the case from the beginning, when a bunch of law for forces -- professors got on force -- long shot elements to it. of was not terribly surprised that it got shut down

they are pamela, lauren, coyle, rosen and, judge michael luttig. and i must thank judge alluding for having had the vision to bring the first amendment tablet that is shimmery behind us from washington, d.c., to independence mall in philadelphia. it sanctifies this sacred space. and let's just all filled vibe of independence hall and the first amendment and how lucky we are to be here. and thank you, judge ludwig, for making that possible. i'm so excited that my friend editor, the great jeffrey goldberg, has come to to talk about the book. you know him one of the great journalists of our generation. he he's read it. and i can't wait to hear what he and to have our conversation. please join me in welcoming jeffrey goldberg. thanks, jeff. all right. i really do feel like we're under the protection of the first amendment tonight. you and judge, you drove this down in your pickup truck, one, one, one slab at a time. it's really quite it's really quite amazing. thank you, jeff. thanks, everyone being here. you all this is the subject of our talk tonight

reaction from former federal judges, including a former federal appeals court judge, judge michael luttig, and others who had been taking what he had to say seriously. his warning that trump's actions and his attacks on people like judge merchan's daughter that they can lead to tyranny is through his point of view, is a judge. someone who has been on the bench for decades. now as any member of a party or supporting a campaign, and that's why he's been resonating so much politics makes strange bedfellows. and here is a case in point, the biden campaign is making a bid for supporters of former republican presidential candidate nikki haley. team biden said friday that its policing a forceful new ad aimed directly at gop voters who supported haley in the primaries have a look >> mickey haley has made an unholy alliance with rhinos, never trumpers americans for no prosperity. >> it brings nikki haley voters back in. >> i'm not sure we need to manage >> campaign says the seven figure ad buy will run on digital platforms and battleground states and use republican primary data to target mostly su

yet adding to the stability or the good governance of those countries, so thank >> think the judge luttigt briefly, but after nearly two hours of testimony and 40 pages of written testimony under the annual threat assessment, i've heard very little about the open southern border policies. this is a man-made problem come out of the white house which poses one of the most if not the most significant threat to our nation security right now. i don't makee that statement glibly. i don't make the following statement which is i feel a more volatile today than we were on september 10 of 2001 as a result of not just china, not just russia, not just the debacle in afghan■histan and iran and its proxies in the middle east and transnational criminal organizations, but because of our open borders. this is a continuation of a statement i made last year which as the primary advisors to the president and the white house and to the dod for all things intelligence, your failuresrv to convey and a part on this present the vulnerabilities of this open border policies is continuing to puto us at risk. just in