it was actually, to tell you the truth, when i saw david koch name on lynn kahn center in new york, ihought i'm an new yorker, i grew up there, and i thought i best most people in new york don't have any idea who these people really are. >> let me ask you a politics question and you can punt if you want. i don't want you to be put in a seat of judgment, but at what price do they take the money. who is aware of giving the money? >> this is a touchy question. after 2012, the cokes put a lot of money into trying to get romney elected. they went back to the drawing board to figure out what went wrong. here is the problem, they say you have an image problem. they decided they needed to fix up their image, and one of the things they consciously decided they needed to do was form alliances with unlikely groups, including, they put money into historically black colleges. they put in united negro college fund, and getting involved in criminal justice reform. but they started pouring money into making causes with the whole criminal justice reform network. . i have been watching them for five ye