lynnwood donaldson, you're next. go ahead, lynnwood. >> all right. i think most americans would agree that the debates have become very engrained in our political culture. but then again, there's also candidates, for example, barack obama in the 2008 election who there's probably not too much he could have done to lose that election. do you think it's possible that a candidate that was either very popular or has a national emergency that makes them the very likely candidate to win, could they refuse to debate and still win the election? or is refusing to debate now just an automatic game end for a campaign? >> lynnwood, that's a very good question. and actually -- >> especially with a sitting president running for re-election. >> correct. that is actually what happened in some of the years between 1960 and 1976. is that the war in vietnam was cited as a national security issue that the sitting president could not and would not discussion. and therefore, having a debate was opening up something that would have been very imprudent for the incumbent to