nordstrom the's was down last quarter with 7%, macy 's down 7%. kohl's down 5.5%.numbers, department stores were down 4%. i expect that trend to continue. their sales are certainly suffering. their stock the may go up or down based on what expectations are, sometimes you have that kind of dead cat bounce, or but we'll have to wait and see, but i don't think their sales will be positive. maria: jerry, or do you think we're going to have a recession next year? >> you know, i don't know. i hope not. i think we all do. i hope these numbers are going to be better than i expect, you know, when they come out in a minute. maria: yeah. >> you know, it really depends on how leveraged the consumer and is -- is and whether they have any money left to pend. maria: that's a good point. you're talking about tet and the use of credit cards going higher, and then there's the buy now pay later phenomenon as well. as we await the november are tail sales numbers, up 83 on the duh industrials. are you a fan of -- dow industrials. are you a fan of this buy now, pay later program in. >>