>> clerk: yes, madam chair. the lafco meeting is being held. public comment will be available on each item on this agenda. channel 78 and sfgovtv.org are streaming the public comment number across the screen. chances to speak are available via gone by calling (415) 655-0001. the meeting i.d. is 24930998339. again, 24930998339. press pound and then pound again. when connected, you will hear the meeting discussions, but you will be muted and in listening mode only. when your item of interest comes up, please dial star three to be added to the speaker line. best practices are to call from a quiet location. you may submit e-mail to myself the lafco clerk. or by u.s. mail to 1 dr. carlton b. goodwin place san francisco california, 97102. it will be forwarded to the commissioners and be included as part of the official file. that concludes my comments, madam chair. >> chairman: thank you so much, madam clerk. please call the roll. >> clerk: on the roll, [roll call] madam chair, you have a quorum. >> chairman: thank you

i yield back, madam chair. >> okay. next we have mi( colleague and friend from illinois, congresswoman kelly, for five minutes. >> thank you chair, and thank you witnesses for testifying today. one thing we can all disagree on is the desire to protect and create good paying jobs that provide families with financial security. for decades, automobile manufacturing has supplied just that kind of employment. while that sector faced its fair share of challenges due to automation and globalization, i am hopeful that designing, engineering, manufacturing of autonomous vehicles will occur in the united states. mr. regan, over 32,000 of my constituents are employed in the manufacturing industry, many in the automobile manufacturing sector. how can we ensure support for avs also support american workers and manufacturing? >> it is not going to magically develop. we need strong buy american restrictions, community benefits, u.s. employment restrictions. i would add earlier that ranking member rodgers made a point about the thune am

thank you madam chair. and whatever you see that basically one of six loans are made by friends x and [inaudible] those are looking as [inaudible] fraudulent, and most of the loads are under 350, 000, i [inaudible] know ig report said that half the loans under 350 probably are are where your theft and anti-theft or fraud are. best not to those lot to look at those is [inaudible] the administration leaving 85 million dollars of anti military equipment biden afghanistan for that reason was to have. this is not for us not to go after people who have infested intentionally gamed this is dumb and you are baking away with dollars that taxpayers have paid in, and have the program would not be looked at, i think it's very, very wrong way of approaching this. mr. rogers, a, mr. fischer. you talked about, in your testimony, something that is very, very concerning to be. with regards to the fbi and their threat to audit fba and the threat to audit agencies, bags, credit unions, [inaudible] if they don't participated t

madam chair? madam chair? >> who seeks recognition? >> michael cloud. >> michael cloud, you are now recognized. >> the committee staff just asked me, for correcting the record, to bring up the fact that the minority staff was not involved. so they were able to attend, and as the covers suggest, it does not mention the chairwoman. and just for the purposes, we want to acknowledge mr. big's point. thank you very much, i yield back. >> so noted, the gentleman from florida is recognized for five minutes. >> mr. donald. >> thank you madam chair. i want to associate my comments that were stated by mr. kreiz, this report before coming into this hearing. that is why it is. and we are here now. but madam chair, obviously, i have three sons, my oldest is that college. and so i know what it is -- watching them sleep, try to find something. my oldest -- it was really not a big deal. my other two cents, for lack of a better phrase, it was kind of a nightmare to try to find the right solution, for them specifically, for them to get a two-hour nap, l

thank you madam chair. thank you for calling this very important hearing on paycheck protection program loans and forgiveness. with the programs application, members of congress must examine the back and process that focuses on forgiveness to ensure the program includes a properly and smooth forgiveness for businesses. to a small tax -- from president trump's actions, the small businesses were investing in companies, their employees, and their communities. unfortunately, covid-19 and local shutdown mandates devastated the nation smallest firms. for being closed entirely, these measures forced small businesses -- not many of the -- not surprisingly these small businesses were able to adapt. that's with a. do government resources like this one can focus on the small businesses. the -- it delivers funds to small businesses in speed. as the show forgiveness, it will show a completely different perspective of lenders to participate in the program. if small businesses adhere to the rules, and the guidance produce

. >> thank you, madam chair.nk you for calling this important hearing on paycheck protection program, loan forgiveness, and the process. members of congress must examine the back and process to focus on forgiveness to ensure the firm can close properly, and smoothly for small businesses. prior to the pandemic, small businesses had confidence about their economic future. the race marked -- through a smart tax cut and donald trump's regulatory actions, these small businesses were investing in their companies, employees, and committees. unfortunately, the pandemic devastated the smallest firms. for being close entirely to alter capacity restrictions, this for small businesses into trouble. they adapted under the best of their ability under dire circumstances. federal government assistance provide an avenue focused efforts on more than 60 million small business workers and employees. ppp proved to be successful during the efforts of private sector lenders who partnered with the small business administration and the d

thank you madam chair man. i will yield back. >> the gentleman from tennessee is now recognized for five minutes. >> thank you madam chair and thank you madam secretary for appearing today. if you would welcome the opportunity to talk about something that is opportunity zones if i could. we know the opportunity zones were created in the jobs act of 2017. in my state of tennessee we had 176 opportunity zones, 32 in shelby county which is an area that i represented with steve cohen and 2019 i had the opportunity to tour one of those called union road and now called walk. it's actually an steve cohen's district. i toured that with your predecessor, secretary carson. if i could, could you talk about the biden administration's position right now and is the administration open to expanding the opportunity zones? >> certainly we are going to be talking about it because not only have the senate members mentioned it as well but it's something people feel very good about so we will be having further conversations. >> can

thank you madam chair. i appreciate it very much and good morning. thank you for holding this important hearing. but and i want to thank today's panel for their testimonies. i am eager to hear their perspective on this issue. as you all know i am from the state of florida. and many of my colleagues associate that with -- the stage program and it's partnership have a transformational impact on our economy and daily lives. this has led to many benefits from image sensors and mobile phones, to hearing aids and improved re-dial -- i feel similarly about the topic of the hearing today. automobile technologies, as well of the -- it is important to say, the future of because there is an assumption among many that these vehicles are already being sold commercially today, when they certainly are not. drive a list vehicles now are still in the early testing stage. they are in early testing stages. and still have a long way to go. however, by designing our own framework for av's. we can set the framework for the indus

thank you, madam chair. some time ago, one of my long est friends made a decision to set a date to end his life. he moved to canada and had als and he made a decision that was representative of having no hope. he chose death. you dr. cavazzoni through the wonders of science brought hope a person in this room, because of this decision that was made the fda guidance, and some hope now, but when i asked you the produce the name of the individual who has actually been able to benefit from this 2019 guidance, that there really isn't anybody who has not been anybody who has not been able to access anybody so far, and there is people who do not have a glimmer of hope, and i have been getting phone calls from people all over the country, and my constituents who are begging for hope. and you will hear them. i hope that you will stay to hear them. i hope that when we move to next panel, you can leave, by hope that you stay and listen to their testimony. can you tell me who this has helped, because it is my understandi

>> clerk: yes, madam chair. lic comment will be available on each item on this agenda. channel 78 and sfgovtv.org are streaming the public comment number across the screen. chances to speak are available via gone by calling (415) 655-0001. the meeting i.d. is 24930998339. again, 24930998339. press pound and then pound again. when connected, you will hear the meeting discussions, but you will be muted and in listening mode only. when your item of interest comes up, please dial star three to be added to the speaker line. best practices are to call from a quiet location. you may submit e-mail to myself the lafco clerk. or by u.s. mail to 1 dr. carlton b. goodwin place san francisco california, 97102. it will be forwarded to the commissioners and be included as part of the official file. that concludes my comments, madam chair. >> chairman: thank you so much, madam clerk. please call the roll. >> clerk: on the roll, [roll call] madam chair, you have a quorum. >> chairman: thank you, madam clerk. before we call item t

the gentleman from texas is recognized for five minutes. >> thank you madam chair. before i get started i want everyone across the country to remember those 13 families that are all praying for for the loss of those young men and women and also remember those people are still stranded in afghanistan this morning. i am a small business owner and haves been for 50 years. my life has been dealing with credit unions and community banks and i can tell you main street america does a lot better than the federal government and i want to say thanks to all the lenders for getting this program out. it's interesting all of a sudden they want to get involved in the program now here of late in the portals and so forth and now we have to have a hearing. so just again, the government, private sector does it better than the government. when i talk to borrowers and lenders in texas i constantly hear about the communication issues at the sba. last week a lender told me so long as if they had been submitted for forgiveness as far backee as january and we are hearing that this morning,

thank you, madame chair. >> the gentleman yields back. the chair is pleased to recognize the gentleman from utah, mr. curtis. >> thank you, madame chair. pleased to be here. this is an important hearing. i think you're going to hear in my questions a theme that we've heard throughout the day. i'd like to start with dr. cavazzoni. my colleagues and constituents back home often communicate to me that the fda needs to be less risk adverse. they cite the inability to access trials as a reason why. without undermining patient safety, i'll put an asterisk by that, because our patients are not exactly worried about their safety, right? they're worried about living. so with that in mind, is there more that congress can do to make the fda and pharmaceutical company more easily able to allow the clinical trials under right to try? it feels to me there is hesitancy because the patients may not always be in the best health. they may not be the best clinical pick. but they're denied a potential for something life saving because of this risk adverse nat

madam chair, if i could, i will yield back. >> thank you very much. the gentlewoman from michigan, ms. taleib is recognized. >> thank you, madam secretary, it is so good to see you and thank you for being accessible right from the beginning and meeting with myself and chair -- and congresswoman kapt captor a. as many of the folks on your team know firsthand the great recession devastated many places like wayne county and many of these communities have yet to fully recover. in my district we face tax foreclosure crisis that is still ongoing. i want to thank you so much for restoring communities left behind that we are championing in tax foreclosure and really true grassroots neighborhood revitalization. thank you for that partnership. as you probably know since 2011 they have closed or more than 100,000 families for delinquent property taxes. that's one in four properties in the entire county. madam secretary, wayne county, you know, we used to have one of the highest black home ownership rates in the country, people would envy like what are we doing he

. >> thank you, madam chair and manor secretary. i do want to do one little piece of housekeeping here. a lot of discussion about whether chair yelling ought to be sitting with you today. just to clear the air on that, she last appeared at this committee at the invitation of the chair with chair powell, i think i called her chair yelling but former chair yelling, secretary yellen was invited by chair powell to do a joint quarterly meeting and march. they're supposed to be back in june, they have not been back, she's not been back at the march meeting is when she made commitments about getting back to this committee so there is no intention of disrespect to anyone, i'm sure there's no intention of disrespect to anybody back in march when both secretary yellen entered chair powell were invited to a joint hearing on this. on to some of the issues we are talking about today, i have to tell you, i was a little taken aback when i think in response to my calling from california you mentioned that people can't -- i wrote this down, people ca

i yield back, madam chair. >> the gentlewoman yields back. the chair is pleased to recognize the gentleman from north carolina, mr. butterfield, for your five minutes of questions. please unmute. >> thank you very much, chair, for convening this very important hearing, and thank you to our witnesses for your testimony today. thank you for your dedication. thank you for your brilliance. this is an issue that we should be able to embrace on a bipartisan basis. so i want to begin to develop this with dr. cavazzoni. thank you for your testimony and your incredible work at fda. you noted in your testimony that, although great progress has been made in treating and curing some conditions, you said the progress has not been even. later today we will hear from patients and caregivers and researchers who will share what the human cost of this failed progress is. fda appeared to recognize the human cost when it released its 2019 guidance on als drug development. but since then, it has denied approval for two als drugs. so i would like to better understa

thank you, madam chair. i'll yield back. >> the gentleman yields back. the chair is pleased to recognize the gentlewoman from florida, ms. caster, for her five minutes of questions. >> thank you, chair eshoo for holding this important hearing and for your devotion of so much time always to cutting-edge research and thank you to our witnesses today for your important work. i am committed to advancing treatments and cures for neurodegenerative diseases. in florida about 580,000 floridians age 65 and older suffer from alzheimer's. over 1,300 floridians are living with als. florida has the highest percentage of individuals with parkinson's in the country. now, in my neck of the woods, in the tampa bay area, we're very fortunate to have a research university, university of south florida leading the research on nj through the department of neurology. we have a world renowned bird alzheimer's center. they do a lot of important research that is family centered, compassionate, in partnership with patients and advocates. they do the same with als patients. they hav

madam chair . >> chair: thank you madam clerk. we are joined by president walton for this item. epresident walton would you like to make your opening remarks ? >> thank you chair melgar and my colleaguesupervisor preston . i'm here before you to honestly talk positively about the resolution that i put before the board along with cosponsor supervisor safai and we want to make sure that we get one step closer to renaming donner street to charlie way. the name changes to honor charlie walker who was an icon in the bayview hunters point community similar to that name being synonymous with chinatown. you cannot talk aboutthe history of hunters point community without saying the name charlie walker . the lake people here called him the mayor of hunters point. being in business for six decades charlie has helped hundreds possibly thousands of young black men and women enter the fields of construction and small business. before california's jail realignment countless black men and women will return home to the bayview community unable to find employment becauseof their criminal records .

madame chair.> the gentleman from massachusetts is now recognized for five minutes. >> thank you madame chair. i know firsthand the fear and trauma coming with the eviction notice on your door they are disruptive and violent and then to destabilize families and by make it more extensive and challenging and then to apply for credit and money or to purchase a home currently one third of black renters are at risk of eviction this crisis is exacerbated so while there is a clear case to support eviction moratorium what was the legal justification of the eviction moratorium always to help us get covid-19 under control? >> absolutely it is to slow the spread to contain the virus as research has been shown expired moratoriums as many as 400,000 cases and 11000 deaths. >> that's right. when i say eviction that isn't just a catchy phrase we know 27 states lifted the eviction moratorium that led to 436,000 preventable cases and 10700 preventable deaths this policy failure has entered the lives of more than 10

the gentleman from michigan is now recognized for five minutes. >> thank you, madam chair and madam secretary. i do l want to do one little pie of housese keeping here. lots of discussion obviously about whether chair yellin ought to be o sitting with you today. just to clear the air on that secretary yellin last appeared at this committee at the invitation of the chair with chair powell. i think i called her chair yellin there, but former chair yellin, secretary yellin was invited to this committee with chair powal to do a joint cares meeting. that was in march. they were supposed to be back in june. they've not been back. at that march meeting is when she'd made some commitments aboutof getting back to this committee. so there's non intention of disrespect to anyone. i'mn sure there was no intentio of disrespect to anybody back in march when both secretary yellin and chair powell were invited to a joint hearing on this. onto some of the issues we're talking about today, i have to tell you i i was a little taken aback when i p think in respons to my colleague from california you mentioned th

and with that i yield back, madam chair. >> it is time, thank you very much. it's expired. and we now recognize mr. olmert for five minutes. >> thank you madam chairman. and i've got to say this really warms my heart to hear witnesses from both sides having so much good info input. it's my observation during the bush years that the department of justice was able to convince republicans, many of them, a majority of them, now we don't need any reform right now, and really pushed back and convinced republicans that we are in charge to back off of some reforms we should have made, and i notice resistance alike that i'm. i'm sure a lot of pressure from the obama administration on democrats that were in charge not to do some reform that was needed. so when i hear the testimony and the questions and hear this in such a great bipartisan way, something that is so serious, it really does warm my heart. some great comments and great questions. dr. alexander, i note your careful to make sure that you note that this technology can be helpful and then since we are thinking back about our

meeks: thank you, madam chair. and i got to just say initially, i'm kind of shocked that the ranking member mchenry saying, of course, he wasn't asked for a vote, something that will determine whether or not the american people, democrats and republicans will suffer if we don't raise this debt ceiling. and i've been here for 22 years between whether it's democratic or republican administrations. and each time when it came to the credit of the united states and our economy, it didn't make a difference to me whether or not the administration was democrat or republican or whether or not someone called me to ask me for my vote. i'm here trying to do the best thing for the american people, not play politics. and when it comes to the credit for the united states and the economy moving over -- moving on, it's not about who's the president or who called and asked me for a vote. it's about doing the right thing for the american people. democrats and republicans. and moving up this debt ceiling, making sure we don't default

thank you, madame chair. >> and thank you senator kennedy, and now senator brown you're recognized for an opening statement. >> thank you chair warren, and member kennedy, and ranking member tilly. and senator warren and kennedy, thank you for making the subcommittee as active as it has been already. i'm glad the subcommittee convened this hearing to explore how a digital currency can be designed to maintain the country's leadership in the global economy, to make the economy work better for the workers and families. other countries around the world are taking steps toward establishing central bank digital currencies. i think we agree the united states must not be left behind. we need to lead the way. as millions of working families in this country know, it's expensive to be poor. check cashing fees, transfer fees, late fees, over draft fees. we here promises about how digital currencies would be more inclusive but the approaches offered by crypto companies so often are just simply not solutions. they're just another volatile risky asset, and puts people's hard earned money and potentia

very madam chair. >> thank you. i have three additional questions that i'm going to put forward and each of you can answer them if you have an opinion. over the past years, you have always senior operation costs continually rise, whether those costs be for feed, fuel or labor, and more often than not, the prices you receive for your milk hardly ever cover the cost of production. one of the pricing reforms that we are looking at is more closely aligning milk prices with the cost of production. could each of you briefly explain the disparity between the current prices you receive for your milk and what it costs to produce the milk and where are some additional ways that the cost you receive could reflect the cost of production? >> well, for my own operation over the last, i don't know, 15 or so years, the price of milk exceeded the cost of production, like maybe two. of course, there's an expression called living off depreciation. that's a large part of it. it is a cost. depreciation is a cost, but if you have some fa

madam chair, i yield back. >> madam chair, could i ask a point of clarification? would it be possible to just give mayor eric garcetti to clarify that there have not been any rolling blackouts in california because of renewable energy? >> correct. and it's the second hearing where we have had this unfortunate mischaracterization. los angeles has never had a rolling blackout. i want to establish that for the record. it is the second time in a congressional hearing that that has been put forward, i just want to correct the record. >> thank you for that clarification. next we are going to go to representative brownley, she is going to come back. so instead we will go to representative miller. representative miller, you are recognized for five minutes. >> thank you, chair castor. and ranking member graves. i want to thank you all for being here today. like many colleagues sitting on the committee, my community in western virginia has been extremely impacted. and i feel for the americans who have been impacted by these disasters and i look forward to using this hearing

>> thank you, madam chair. i look forward to today. today's hearing on facial recognition technology. i'm hopeful we can approach this issue in a truly bipartisan manner as has been mentioned by some previous statements. last congress we worked closely with our colleague, the late chairman elijah cummings on this very issue. while we had vigorous gates on a variety of issues facial recognition technology was one issue where we shared common ground. so much so that we so that we h bipartisan hearings on such technology. in those hearings we learned many important facts about the facial recognition technology. there are serious first and fourth amendment rights of frt by law enforcement and due process concerns about how the law enforcement uses this technology. we learned for example that over 20 states, departments of motor vehicles have handed over their driver's license data to the fbi. no american citizen gave their consent to have their data or images turned over to the fbi and no elected official ever vote

thank you madam chair. chairwoman eshoo: the gentleman yields back. the chair is pleased to organize the gentleman from virginia for your five minutes of questions. >> dr. andrews, i will start with you. in regards to als, it's supposed to be relatively rare, not as rare as huntington's. you have, i know four or five people who have had it. is there any research you are a rare of that is going on with geographic outbreak? in one point in time in a four or five year. i had people i knew who were in the earlier part of their life lived in probably a half mile of each other. is there any work going on with that? dr. andrews: historically we have identified populations and geographic areas as high rates of als due to exposures. over the course of the study, there have been many geological studies looking at environmental exposures that might increase your risk of als. from the als association standpoint one of the priorities studying the factors, that's why funding to the cdc national als registry is critically important, to identify those clusters. one of

>> clerk: yes, madam chair. the board recognizes that public access to city services is essential and invite public participation in the following ways. public comment will be available on each item in this agenda. channels 26, 79, and sfgovtv are streaming this meeting live. each item will have opportunities for public comment. public comment may be made by calling the public comment line at 415-655-0001. meeting i.d. is 2493-032-2236 then press pound and pound again. when your item of interest comes up, please press star, three to be added to the speaker line. best practices are to call from a quiet location and turn down your volume on your computer or television. madam chair? >> supervisor melgar: thank you very much, madam clerk. hopefully that will be the longest stretch that you speak during this meeting. i can tell your voice is strained. now, please call item 1. >> clerk: thank you, madam chair. item 1 is an ordinance granting revokable permission to h.v. community association, inc. to occupy and mainta

madam chair, we've reached out to her for a chance. would you like to go to general public comment for now and we can circle back to this? >> chairman: that sounds great. madam clerk, please call item number six. >> clerk: item number six is general public comment. for members of the public who wish to speak on this item, please dial (415) 655-0001. meeting i.d. 24930998339 then press pound and pound again. if you have not already done so, please press star three to line up to speak. d.t. is checking to see if we have any callers in the queue. do we have any callers ready? >> hello, commissioners. eric brooks with our city sf and californians with energy choice. as i often do, i want to reiterate the importance of the public bank and getting that moved forward as fast as possible. hopefully on the next meeting we're at a good point with the public pang. and all the other things that we're talking about including gig workers. and then on the issue of utility debt relief, that was covered a little bit in today's meeting, but i as a tenant

>> clerk: yes, madam chair. the board recognizes that public access to city services is essential and invite public participation in the following ways. public comment will be available on each item in this agenda. channels 26, 79, and sfgovtv are streaming this meeting live. each item will have opportunities for public comment. public comment may be made by calling the public comment line at 415-655-0001. meeting i.d. is 2493-032-2236 then press pound and pound again. when your item of interest comes up, please press star, three to be added to the speaker line. best practices are to call from a quiet location and turn down your volume on your computer or television. madam chair? >> supervisor melgar: thank you very much, madam clerk. hopefully that will be the longest stretch that you speak during this meeting. i can tell your voice is strained. now, please call item 1. >> clerk: thank you, madam chair. item 1 is an ordinance granting revokable permission to h.v. community association, inc. to occupy and mainta

madame chair, i yield back again. thank you for this very thoughtful legislation, and i look forward to its approval. i yield back. >> i thank you, mr. chairman. the chair will now recognize the other members of the subcommittee for questions they may wish to ask the witnesses. in accordance with the guidelines laid out by the chairman and ranking member in their february 3rd colloquy, i will recognize members in order of seniority alternating between the majority and the minority. members are also reminded to unmute themselves and turn on their cameras to be recognized for questioning. the chair recognizes for five minutes the gentleman from georgia, mr. clyde, at this time. >> mr. clyde? okay. i'm going to go forward, then, and have the chair recognized for five minutes, the gentleman from rhode island, mr. langevin for his questions at this time. . >> thank you, madame chair, and i want to thank our witnesses for their testimony today. in your testimony you recommended that only confirmed incidents should be covere

donald, for five minutes. >> thank you, madam chair. and thank you to the ranking member for holding this hearing. i got to tell you, i think s.b.a. getting involved in -- as involved as they're trying to be with this forgiveness process and frankly, you know, threatening community banks from doing what they've already -- to do is outrageous. it's outrageously wrong. and a prior life, i was a credit underwriter at a community bank. i had to deal with s.b.a. when we were doing joint credit with them. and to be frank, s.b.a. would be late to the table often with respect to their lending decisions. but we already knew it was -- it just took forever to deal with s.b.a., for them to come in now and in some respects completely take over the forgiveness process to me doesn't make much sense at all so -- my question -- first question for mr. fisher, and you guys are going through the process of forgiveness, what kind of data are you looking at in order for forgiveness? >> we just make sure that it's a valid loan. we validated all the customers

rounds: thank you, madam chair. thank you to our witnesses for taking the time to attend today's hearing. i look forward to hearing from all of you. let me just begin by thanking the chair. senator smith and i are not only working on housing issues, we are working on a number of areas. sometimes, that's not something we talk about with regard to items that make news and headlines are anything, but there's a lot of us that try to work across allies lines back and forth. the senate requires bipartisan support for any kind of activity to move forward. senator smith and i are working on ag issues, water development issues, rural economic issues. this is an area that we both agree is a place where we really can make a difference in our home states, and for rural parts of our country. today, this committee will examine an issue of great importance to me and to so many in my home state of south dakota, and one that this committee has not held a hearing on in nearly 10 years. that issue is providing safe, affordable and stab

madam chair, i yield back. >> thank you, madam chair lady. i now recognize the represented. >> thank you, chair. mr. goldstein, the committee has concerns with the white house's decision to place the department of energy at the helm of the federal government's response to the ransomware attack on colonial pipeline. in this case, d.o.e. is not the sector risk management agency nor does it have a lead role in cyber response in this case. tsa is the co-lead risk factor management agency for pipeline sector, along with the department of transportation. additionally, the plan designates dhs designate cisa to lead the response. what rationale were you and the acting director given for d.o.e. given the lead response for this incident? do you or any of cisa's leadership raise concerns with the white house? >> i think it is useful to separate the various elements of this incident. it is one of the first instances we've seen in this country where cyber event led to a decision to disrupt a physical function upon which americans depend. there really were